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Anyone else think Dragon Age 2's art style is too bland?


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#26
Aaleel

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Travie wrote...

This bioware team already admitted that they didn't want to put too much effort into "thing people don't spend much time looking at."

Anyone remember the developer diary that flatly stated that there were 10s of thousands of books in the mage tower, and they regretted putting that much time into something that people didn't spend much time looking at?

Obviously they went the completely wrong direction there, people love detail. It adds immensely to replayability.


I was speechless when I heard him say that no one cared about the books in the mage tower.  So they decided to have empty room with barely any to no furniture.  The Chantry didn't even have pews in it, just a big open floor.

#27
Lux

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Too much brown, too little detail. Very bland.

Hope this too improves with the next game. Actually, they should drop this game ASAP and focus entirely on the next one.

#28
Sylvianus

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Aaleel wrote...

Travie wrote...

This bioware team already admitted that they didn't want to put too much effort into "thing people don't spend much time looking at."

Anyone remember the developer diary that flatly stated that there were 10s of thousands of books in the mage tower, and they regretted putting that much time into something that people didn't spend much time looking at?

Obviously they went the completely wrong direction there, people love detail. It adds immensely to replayability.


I was speechless when I heard him say that no one cared about the books in the mage tower.  So they decided to have empty room with barely any to no furniture.  The Chantry didn't even have pews in it, just a big open floor.

That's not surprising that they have thought that. It's hard to believe that small details can play any role in a wide range. The mistake is forgivable. Fortunately the fans can remember them that small details are apreciated. ^_^

We have seen the difference with DA2. When these details are lacking, it is noticed immediately. They can break immersion or devalue a game.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 27 juillet 2011 - 05:57 .


#29
nitefyre410

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At first I did not like Kirkwall Design till it dawned on my that Kirkwall was gateway for slaves coming in to the old Emperium not a Fantasy world Club Med. It looks likea prison, feels likea prisions and is designed like a city to keep people in and not let them out. So now all the hallways and tight spaces makes sense. Plus it looks like Kirkwall sits in a Savanna like climate with not a lot trees around for lumber. Keeping Kirkwall history in mind the city design is really not bad at all.

#30
LeBurns

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Merci357 wrote...

I guess they took the "WoW" route. Millions play it, so they must like the childish/cartoonish approach.

That said, I liked the DA:O style - and would suit any future games far better


Agreed ^

To me the art style and action all point to anime.  I love anime, but I don't like it at all in my Western CRPG.  Somebody get it out!

The art style wasn't a game killer though for me.  I only played the demo.  I disliked the art style ... a lot, but could have lived with it if the combat hadn't had been so terrible.  If DA:O had been made with that art style I would have still loved DA:O, but the art style would have been the first thing I would want changed.

#31
Redcoat

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I liken DA2's architecture to contemporary architecture in our world - grey and brown boxes, everywhere!

In all seriousness, nearly every location was so sparse and lacking in detail that I found it hard to believe that people actually lived and worked in these places. As one person pointed out, there aren't any pews in the chantry; it's just a big open room, basically. I hope they keep their sermons short, so peoples' feet don't get tired from standing on that hard stone for hours! The entirety of Kirkwall suffers from such an overuse of greys and browns and box-shaped areas that it makes me feel like Hawke is trapped in some sort of horrible fantasy equivalent of a big box shopping centre. A big box shopping centre where hordes of thugs accost you as you are carrying your packages of toilet paper out of Wal-Mart.

As for the rest of the art style...well...I wouldn't call it a "style" as much as "anything that's not generic fantasy." Unfortunately, "not generic fantasy" is no more an art direction than "not collecting stamps" is a hobby. The result is that DA2 looks like a bizarre mash-up of differing styles, so you have characters like Fenris and Flemeth who look like something out of Final Fantasy, elves that look like the Na'vi, and combat animations that feel like something ripped from God of War, or perhaps Dynasty Warriors. About the only change to the character designs I actually liked was the qunari, since it made them look much more imposing than the "slightly larger humans" of DA:O.

Modifié par Redcoat, 27 juillet 2011 - 06:53 .


#32
BrunoB1971

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Stanley Woo wrote...

What does it mean that you find the art style "generic in every way," yet go on to say how distinctive it is and how much it affects you? i think you're confusing "generic" with "dislike."


Still looks like some people are still in denial at Bioware over the mixed reaction to DA2 if you ask me....

Modifié par BrunoB1971, 27 juillet 2011 - 07:07 .


#33
BrunoB1971

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If Bioware wants to compete, they will have to go balls out on the next game otherwise its gonna be bye bye for the franchise, unless DA is just a trilogy....if not then i do hope they listen to fans for the next upcomign version of it.

#34
Brockololly

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DA2 is just such an ugly game.

Art wise, sure, Origins looked a bit drab at times but it was consistent within its world. In that, Dwarves had the monopoly on the blocky, chunky vibe, Elves had the nature/curved shapes and everything had its own look more or less. Generic? Sure. Yet DA2 simplified things so that now every single being has harsh jagged edges, spikes and feathers sticking out everywhere regardless if they're human, dwarf, elf or Qunari. There is barely any in-world variance or uniqueness.

Thats my problem going forward- is that DA2 has simply adopted one uniform style for everything DA. And yet, I expect the elves or dwarves or templars or Wardens or different countries and people to dress differently based on where they're from and what their history is. Same goes with architecture- Kirkwall should look differently than Ferelden, which should look differently than Orlais, which should look different than Tevinter and so forth.

I mean, look at Game of Thrones on HBO and the armor/costumes there. Guys from Winterfell have unique armor both in form and color that reflects where they're from and the climate they come from. Whereas in King's Landing its warmer and thus its more colorful and people wear more loose clothing. Or even how the Lannister's armor is seen as not only fitting their house colors, but its often a bit fancy looking to reflect that they're filthy rich.

But beyond the art, I still think if BioWare simply tweaked some of the Origins designs, maybe made them more like their original concept art, and focused more on jacking up the technical side of the graphics, that would have been enough. Better lighting especially, cause DA's lighting system is horrendously dated looking. When I'm going into a cave or dungeon and there are only about 4 torches on the wall, why is the place lit up like Disney Land?

Modifié par Brockololly, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:05 .


#35
alex90c

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Was my previous post seriously removed for saying it looked childish? For crying out loud.

All I said was how spikes and feathers felt rampant in DA2.

#36
Whatsupnewyork

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Comment if you think Bioware should change the art style for DA3!

#37
xkg

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alex90c wrote...

Was my previous post seriously removed for saying it looked childish? For crying out loud.

All I said was how spikes and feathers felt rampant in DA2.


Nope lol. This is new thread. Previous one was locked. Image IPB
http://social.biowar...1/index/7973432

#38
Redcoat

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Brockololly wrote...

DA2 is just such an ugly game.

Art wise, sure, Origins looked a bit drab at times but it was consistent within its world. In that, Dwarves had the monopoly on the blocky, chunky vibe, Elves had the nature/curved shapes and everything had its own look more or less. Generic? Sure. Yet DA2 simplified things so that now every single being has harsh jagged edges, spikes and feathers sticking out everywhere regardless if they're human, dwarf, elf or Qunari. There is barely any in-world variance or uniqueness.

Thats my problem going forward- is that DA2 has simply adopted one uniform style for everything DA. And yet, I expect the elves or dwarves or templars or Wardens or different countries and people to dress differently based on where they're from and what their history is. Same goes with architecture- Kirkwall should look differently than Ferelden, which should look differently than Orlais, which should look different than Tevinter and so forth.

I mean, look at Game of Thrones on HBO and the armor/costumes there. Guys from Winterfell have unique armor both in form and color that reflects where they're from and the climate they come from. Whereas in King's Landing its warmer and thus its more colorful and people wear more loose clothing. Or even how the Lannister's armor is seen as not only fitting their house colors, but its often a bit fancy looking to reflect that they're filthy rich.

But beyond the art, I still think if BioWare simply tweaked some of the Origins designs, maybe made them more like their original concept art, and focused more on jacking up the technical side of the graphics, that would have been enough. Better lighting especially, cause DA's lighting system is horrendously dated looking. When I'm going into a cave or dungeon and there are only about 4 torches on the wall, why is the place lit up like Disney Land?


I'm glad some finally noticed the lighting issue; nearly every single location in the game is what mappers call "fullbright" - i.e. no lighting variation at all.

Another thing that struck me is how much worse the face textures are for NPCs...they have have this bleached, washed-out look to them, as if no shader effects are being applied at all. Hair and beards look particularly bad:

Image IPB

The thing is, I don't recall it looking this bad in DA:O. Must be something to do with the lighting, if I had to guess.

#39
alex90c

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xkg wrote...
Nope lol. This is new thread. Previous one was locked. Image IPB
http://social.biowar...1/index/7973432


Curse these identical threads. I can't keep track of which ones i'm DA2-bashing in.

ijk ijk bioware don't kill me :lol:

Just wondering, but was I the only one who felt everyone in DA2 looked identical? In DA:O, if you look on the Nexus there are so many people who made characters which look distinctly different from each other, but in DA2 it's like .... well everyone just looks too similar.

edit - double post, bah

Modifié par alex90c, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:31 .


#40
Aaleel

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This was one of my main problems with the areas in DA2.

Image IPB

This stuff was copy and pasted everywhere, and I mean everywhere. Then you have the large empty rooms. Far too much of this. I still can't believe someone representing the game said no one really cared about the details.

Modifié par Aaleel, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:34 .


#41
themonty72

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I think the graphics need to have a dash of darkness. Its little to colorful and bright.

#42
TheRealJayDee

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Redcoat wrote...

Unfortunately, "not generic fantasy" is no more an art direction than "not collecting stamps" is a hobby.


Sad, because true. Also sig worthy.

#43
element eater

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alot of da's story is trying to be pretty dark I think the colourful art style of d2 detracts from this some what.

I like the new qunari i dislike how they are topless and use crappy spears sorta flys against the idea that they are very powerful in combat i'd love to see the new design in some heavy armour. Elves varied to much in quality for me to really decide wether or not the new style should stay although i definately think it needs to be softened up.

#44
errant_knight

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Aaleel wrote...

Travie wrote...

This bioware team already admitted that they didn't want to put too much effort into "thing people don't spend much time looking at."

Anyone remember the developer diary that flatly stated that there were 10s of thousands of books in the mage tower, and they regretted putting that much time into something that people didn't spend much time looking at?

Obviously they went the completely wrong direction there, people love detail. It adds immensely to replayability.


I was speechless when I heard him say that no one cared about the books in the mage tower.  So they decided to have empty room with barely any to no furniture.  The Chantry didn't even have pews in it, just a big open floor.

Seriously? Wow. Those things that 'no one cared about' were the things that maked the world feel vibrant, with a real history, and npcs who had avtual lives rather than just being props. I can't believe thaty said that. I assumed it was a cost cutting measure because they didn't have enough time to make a game of DA:)'s quality, not an actual design decision. How very disheartening. I suppose that's why there's no codex or item descriptions, too.

Regarding the style... Yes, I find it really poor in all respects--flat , unreal, and often ridiculous.

Modifié par errant_knight, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:49 .


#45
Morroian

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Whatsupnewyork wrote...

It just doesn't feel like it is its own, and feels generic in every single way.  The darkspawn for Dragon Age 2look awful in comparison to their predecessors. The darkspawn in Origins looked vicious, savage and monstrous. The darkspawn in DA2 look, well.... not very good.

Likewise I don't like the cartoony warcraft ears the elves now have and the new Qunari don't float my boat. Perhaps I'm seeing a bit too much TSR/D20 "Tiefling" fanboyism in their design. It almost looks like a desparate plea for popularity (although it matches the new elf look so perhaps there's a thematic thing going on there).

I don't see how any of that translates to bland and generic. DAO was generic. Maybe you just find DA2 ugly.

BrunoB1971 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

What does it mean that you find the art style "generic in every way," yet go on to say how distinctive it is and how much it affects you? i think you're confusing "generic" with "dislike."


Still looks like some people are still in denial at Bioware over the mixed reaction to DA2 if you ask me....

Nah he's actually right I had exactly the same reaction to the OP as I say above.

Modifié par Morroian, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:51 .


#46
Whatsupnewyork

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What are we going to do?!

#47
Guest_Puddi III_*

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The area design in DA2 wasn't its most inspiring point (though Legacy improved on that a bit). I'm fine with the character and enemy design, for the most part.

#48
ImoenBaby

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I like detail, so long as it's not clutter. A lot of the "detail" in the Origins mage tower was almost negligible. 

I know I'm asking for too much when I want more from thousands of "books" than just set decoration. I really liked Witch Hunt's library, especially when certain books coloured in some of the setting's and characters' backstories.

Essentially, I don't want set decoration just for its own sake, although it does help. A game's background visuals dramatically improve my experience when they offer more than visual cues, because I love clicking on the set pieces for clues and intrigue and bits of lore.

#49
Redcoat

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Using Flemeth's Hut as an example:

Image IPB

Look at the various details the designers have included - the piles of books haphazardly strewn about, the animal pelt hanging near the wall, what appears to be garlic hanging from a rope, some nug carcasses hanging near the fireplace, the firewood piled in the corner...it's these sorts of details, this "clutter" that gives the world verisimilitude; it creates the impression that people actually inhabit this place. If this location were in DA2, it'd likely be little more than a brown box with two or three props thrown in.

I don't know if DA2's terribly sparse environments were due to time restraints or a conscious design choice, but it makes the whole of Kirkwall feel like a ghost town.

#50
vallore

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Never liked minimalist decors; some may believe they allow greater focus on “what matters”in a story but, for me what happens is more like they were screaming “this is a stage!” further distracting from the play, (or game in this case).