127 réponses à ce sujet

[JKoopman]

To put it simply, they severely restrict character creation and roleplaying in several instances, the two in particular being the Human Noble and Mage origins.

As a human noble you're said to be the youngest member of the Cousland royal family, which already restricts your age to less than that of your 30-ish looking brother, so a grizzled old war vetran character wouldn't make sense. In addition, being that your parents and sibling are all caucasian in appearance, it prevents you from roleplaying a dark-skinned or asian character as well (the same is true of the dwarf noble origin as your father and brothers there are equally pale in complexion).

With the mage origin, you're said to have been brought to the Tower as a child (as are all mages) and your friend Jowan complains that he's been there longer than you have, which also restricts your maximum age as logically you cannot be older than Jowan who appears to be in his early or mid 20s. So any attempt to roleplay a wisened old wizard would be thwarted there as well.

Basically, unless you're willing to suspend your disbelief or just cover your ears and go "Na na na na na" throughout the origin stories, the origins can really get in the way of the character you wish to create.

Why were the origins even necessary? Why not simply start the game with a generic Prooving for Grey Warden recruits and have your character enter from parts unknown with whatever background story you choose to give him? As is DA:O is less a roleplaying game and more a graphical Choose Your Own Adventure.

[RogueAssassinX]

. . .



Ok, there's getting into character, and then there is this. Which, IMHO, is a little out there. This is a video game RPG, not a pen & paper RPG. Why can't you just get into the character as presented?

[Sevas88]

Because that's boring(refering to the op), had you ever played an MMO you'd understand. I agree that it does limit what you can do. But honestly having to play the same begining portion of a game over again is what will usually stop me from playing through again. That's just me though.

Really though, it's a conspiracy. You caught them good job.

Modifié par Sevas88, 21 novembre 2009 - 05:41 .

[newcomplex]

Personally, I liked the origin storys because they greatly heightened the complexity of the plot. Games that offer total plotline freedom usually have the most completely bull**** plots.

Look at it this way.   Bioware is your dungeon master.   In any normal pen and paper RPG, what you can be is restricted by your dungeon master.   Bioware, as your dungeon master, restricts some aspects of your identity to greatly highten the storytelling.  

Modifié par newcomplex, 21 novembre 2009 - 05:43 .

[DJoker35]

Probably the point was give a sense of immersion, background, and tie-in to the world and the story that you're about to dive into, and a sense of depth to your character's place within that story, making what could easily be dismissive, unimportant choices made by a bunch of pixels into something that will have an actual impact on the fiction, instead of a generic starting ground.

Think of it as a book. And though there are many variables as to how that book could start, you are, in the end, the protagonist of that book, and have a somewhat defined place in the narrative.

It's the whole Origin story that, for me, makes DA:O stand out from the crowd of RPGs, and the Origin stories that, in the end, give the story meaning, and make for a rather deep and compelling experience.

Modifié par DJoker35, 21 novembre 2009 - 05:52 .

[akuthia]

and because, what you go through in your origins is SUPPOSED to affect the choises you would make through the rest of the game. SO i think they should expand the origins, and let me play through my childhood too!

[marshalleck]

No, it wouldn't be better. The origin stories add more to the game than having no origin story and age being irrelevant would. Admittedly the skin tone issue is a bit odd. But really, the origin stories add much more than little details like yours would.

[macayle]

i enjoy the origins and tend to pick one that fits how i want to play the story through rp wise. I understand the ops pov there are other orinins you can play if you want the gizzelled old vet for a pc.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

My favourite part about the origin stories is how they can affect your opinion drastically on some of the main plot events. Specifically Human Noble, Dwarven Noble and Mage.



While it may not change a whole lot about what you have to do, your motivations at certain areas will be coloured compared to someone of another origin because of some events that take place in yours. (Eg Dwarf noble in orzammar)



I found the Elven origins to be a bit lackluster in this regard. Dalish elf does provide a different viewpoint at the brecilian forest and city elf is interesting for the racial aspect but both of the origins were short. Dalish elf lacked the dramatic action and city elf feels a bit too isolated (partially because you can't go back into the Alienage right away)

[oghier]

More origins would be better, but you still have a fair bit of choice. The origin stories themselves are of high enough quality to be worth it.  I finished the dwarf commoner start with a serious chip on my shoulder.  And I actually got angry during the human noble tale.

If you want a truly wide-open character sandbox, I don't think Bioware makes those. Most of their games have a fair chunk of the protagonist's back-story defined in advance (if often a secret!).

Modifié par oghier, 21 novembre 2009 - 06:06 .

[Rayne Myria Solo]

Bioware is your GM, your GM generally sets up a prologue for you to run through to gain your first level or two, and get you ready for your big upcoming campeign when all of your party gets together. That's exactly what the origins do. You're probably the same sort who'd complain to your GM about the campaign she set up too...

[Frans-Laurens]

hey guys, sorry to drop in on your convo, but has anyone made any modules yet with the tool set? How can I download them?



I really like the origins idea. Sure its not as open ended as other games that give you total freedom, but this is NOT ment to be an open ended game - its far from that. This game os about telling a story and I think they did it very creatively.

[Kiddeth]

JKoopman wrote...

To put it simply, they severely restrict character creation and roleplaying in several instances, the two in particular being the Human Noble and Mage origins.

As a human noble you're said to be the youngest member of the Cousland royal family, which already restricts your age to less than that of your 30-ish looking brother, so a grizzled old war vetran character wouldn't make sense. In addition, being that your parents and sibling are all caucasian in appearance, it prevents you from roleplaying a dark-skinned or asian character as well (the same is true of the dwarf noble origin as your father and brothers there are equally pale in complexion).

With the mage origin, you're said to have been brought to the Tower as a child (as are all mages) and your friend Jowan complains that he's been there longer than you have, which also restricts your maximum age as logically you cannot be older than Jowan who appears to be in his early or mid 20s. So any attempt to roleplay a wisened old wizard would be thwarted there as well.

Basically, unless you're willing to suspend your disbelief or just cover your ears and go "Na na na na na" throughout the origin stories, the origins can really get in the way of the character you wish to create.

Why were the origins even necessary? Why not simply start the game with a generic Prooving for Grey Warden recruits and have your character enter from parts unknown with whatever background story you choose to give him? As is DA:O is less a roleplaying game and more a graphical Choose Your Own Adventure.

you could be more wrong but the effort to do so would dot be worth the end result.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Sevas88 wrote...

Because that's boring(refering to the op), had you ever played an MMO you'd understand. I agree that it does limit what you can do. But honestly having to play the same begining portion of a game over again is what will usually stop me from playing through again. That's just me though..

It's not just you. The biggest barrier to restarting an rpg is that same old opening scene that you never, ever want to do again *cough* nwn2 *cough*.

I absolutely LOVE that I am playing through this epic game, knowing full well that I have five more origin stories to see.

Regarding the mages start, do you really think the whole thing should be scrapped based on the fact that one fairly insignificant character made a single innacurate statement regarding your characters age?

Modifié par Rhys Cordelle, 21 novembre 2009 - 06:13 .

[- Archangel -]

The only thing I hate is Mage is tied to only one origin. I know it fits the story, but it sucks and limits your choices if you prefer mage characters.

[Ginnerben]

If this was the spoiler forum, I'd have an answer for you. Since you decided to post where the actual story of the game can't be brought in, I guess I'll just have to say that if you decided to play an older character, there would be serious problems with one of the core parts of the game (Being a Grey Warden), that would completely change how the end of the game played out.



- Archangel -, it doesn't even fit the story. There are so many mages you encounter that don't share that Origin, who would have had an opportunity to be recruited by the Grey Wardens.

[JoeBPlenty]

I'd rather have slightly pre-made backgrounds and lots of interaction in the world based on it, then complete freedom to make my own backstory and absolutely no one in the game world being aware of such backstory. (i.e playing the oldest living wizard, hero of Maric's rebellion, and personal advisor to the same, yet completely ignored by all as anyone other then 'generic adventurer')

[jBookey]

Dragon Age: ORIGINS

...not quite sure how to explain it any better than that.

[aberdash]

Sevas88 wrote...



Because that's boring(refering to the op), had you ever played an MMO you'd understand.

Yeah because the terrible and obscure games like Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, and Fallout had no origins and it made them the failures that nobody has ever heard of that they were.

[Mnemnosyne]

I do wish Mages had a choice of more origins. At the very least, Dalish Elf should be an available origin for elven mages, since the Dalish Elves do have mages in the very camp that you grow up in.

As for the origins limiting your character, yes, they do, that's intentional and it's good. So no, you can't play whatever character you come up with, which is entirely a good thing. The game can't adapt and react to anything you come up with, you need to follow a plot that's pre-written. In order for that plot to actually tie into your character so that the story is actually about your character, rather than a generic story where any character would fit, it needs to define your character.

There is no such thing as a really good CRPG story that doesn't define your story in some way. Baldur's Gate defined where you grew up and how old you were, Fallout and Fallout 2 defined key aspects of your character such as where you grew up, Planescape: Torment defined your entire character, as did Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect. Contrast this with the NWN original campaign in which your character was completely undefined, and you can see that the lack of definition in the character made it so that the story had to be much more generic and had basically no connection whatsoever to your character. You just happened to be the right guy in the right place at the right time, and that's it. Wasn't personal in any way, and of course the NPC's couldn't react to whatever background you came up with in your head.

After all, what's the point of coming up with a background story in your head if none of the characters in the world can react to it in the slightest?

[koshiee]

This isn't the type of game you're looking for. DAO like almost all the RPGs that Bioware is heavily story driven so there subsequently has to be limitations on what kind of character you can make and have it still make sense. You're looking for more of an open world RPG or an MMO.

I think this is why some people get frustrated, they play DAO expecting either a hack and slash or an open world game. I guess w/ story driven games being so rare people just play these games w/ very different expectations. I just hope story driven games don't die off completely.

[Ginnerben]

aberdash wrote...

Sevas88 wrote...

Because that's boring(refering to the op), had you ever played an MMO you'd understand.

Yeah because the terrible and obscure games like Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, and Fallout had no origins and it made them the failures that nobody has ever heard of that they were.

Koyasha wrote...There is no such thing as a really good CRPG story that doesn't define your story in some way. Baldur's Gate defined where you grew up and how old you were, Fallout and Fallout 2 defined key aspects of your character such as where you grew up, Planescape: Torment defined your entire character, as did Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect. 

I'm not sure if that was a deliberate curbstomp or not, but very nicely done.  

[Minchandre]

aberdash wrote...

Sevas88 wrote...

Because that's boring(refering to the op), had you ever played an MMO you'd understand.

Yeah because the terrible and obscure games like Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, and Fallout had no origins and it made them the failures that nobody has ever heard of that they were.

Did we play the same Baldur's Gate?  The one that starts with you in a monastery, with your adoptive father and sister?  That basically dictates your early life to you?

[JKoopman]

Rayne Myria Solo wrote...

Bioware is your GM, your GM
generally sets up a prologue for you to run through to gain your first
level or two, and get you ready for your big upcoming campeign when all
of your party gets together. That's exactly what the origins do. You're
probably the same sort who'd complain to your GM about the campaign she
set up too...

I don't know what ****-istic GMs you play
with but around here the GMs don't typically define the player
characters' age and race for them.

Kiddeth wrote...

you could be more wrong but the effort to do so would dot be worth the end result.

Please enlighten me as to what exactly I could be more wrong about. I'm genuinely curious.

Or are you just a troll with nothing better to say?

[aberdash]

Koyasha wrote...

As for the origins limiting your character, yes, they do, that's intentional and it's good. So no, you can't play whatever character you come up with, which is entirely a good thing. The game can't adapt and react to anything you come up with, you need to follow a plot that's pre-written.

Of course this means its just a character and not your character.