127 réponses à ce sujet

[Sloth Of Doom]

Dragon age without the origins. Hrm, interesting thought. Also, dragons are cliche, lets get rid of them. Also I have always thought calling eras 'ages' was a bit silly, so lets gt rid of that. The new game will be called " "

[I HAS A FLAVOUR]

This thread is pointless....



Just because its a RPG, doesn't mean you always get to Roleplay your own creation. Most RPG's have you roleplaying (if you want to) a created character. Which your doing in this game.



Only difference, is that you make the character look the way you want.



Again, pointless thread.

[Ginnerben]

JKoopman wrote...

Rayne Myria Solo wrote...

Bioware is your GM, your GM
generally sets up a prologue for you to run through to gain your first
level or two, and get you ready for your big upcoming campeign when all
of your party gets together. That's exactly what the origins do. You're
probably the same sort who'd complain to your GM about the campaign she
set up too...

I don't know what ****-istic GMs you play
with but around here the GMs don't typically define the player
characters' age and race for them.

Good for you.  Go play with them, I guess.   

[Xaltar81]

Going back to whats logical, starting as a level 1 character would generally preclude you from making a grizzled war veteran or acomplished mage...



IMO that was the biggest killer of Oblivion for me, the plot sucked because it was far too impersonal. DA:Origins has me feeling like my character has history and as a result I actually take time to think about what dialogue options I choose. I have never bothered doing that in other RPGs, usually I just pick the response that gives the most XP or reward. DA:O is far better and it is so becuse of the origins.



The only thing I find to be lacking is that the endings seem weak compared to the strong introduction via the origins. I guess they ran out of dev time. I was a little annoyed that my favorite origin and a few choices I made (to fit my character) resulted in the most pathetic ending I have ever seen in my first playthrough. It very nearly ruined the game for me entirely.



The origins only real fault that I can see is that they constrict what you can achieve at the end of the game a little too much but I suspect that this is because the game was never finished to the devs satisfaction. There is so much left undone or simply left hanging. Hopefully DLC will fix it

[stubbieAussie]

I agree with the OP.



If the game requires you to play as a "younger" character then the character creator should not allow you to make an older character.



Or is that being too simplistic?

[JKoopman]

I HAS A FLAVOUR wrote...

This thread is pointless....

Just because its a RPG, doesn't mean you always get to Roleplay your own creation. Most RPG's have you roleplaying (if you want to) a created character. Which your doing in this game.

Only difference, is that you make the character look the way you want.

Again, pointless thread.

You can't make an elderly, black or asian human warrior or rogue nor can you create an elderly mage without it flying in the face of their established origin stories. So no, you can't make your character look the way you want. Which was my point.

Not so much the whole "background story" thing as a "maybe I want to play an asian human rogue or a Gandalf-esque mage" thing.

[Ginnerben]

JKoopman wrote...

I HAS A FLAVOUR wrote...

This thread is pointless....

Just because its a RPG, doesn't mean you always get to Roleplay your own creation. Most RPG's have you roleplaying (if you want to) a created character. Which your doing in this game.

Only difference, is that you make the character look the way you want.

Again, pointless thread.

You can't make an elderly, black or asian human warrior or rogue nor can you create an elderly mage without it flying in the face of their established origin stories. So no, you can't make your character look the way you want. Which was my point.

Not so much the whole "background story" thing as a "maybe I want to play an asian human rogue or a Gandalf-esque mage" thing.

I'll give you the race thing (Stealing the idea to make your family resemble you from Fallout 3 would have been cool) but as mentioned, there's a very good reason not to let you be old.  

EDIT: Also, yeah, as mentioned, can you imagine your "Gandalf-esque mage" not knowing more than 3 spells?  Alzheimer's getting to him? 

Its fine if you just want a sandbox to wander around in.  But the age thing just doesn't work.  

Modifié par Ginnerben, 21 novembre 2009 - 07:28 .

[Fivexxxxx]

I love how people complain about minor things like this. It really goes to show how good the game as a whole really is. Honestly, the game would be far more boring without the Origins. As said before, they really give different perspectives on different characters and factions. I was happy to oblige with some character's demands in one of the quests, then I played the Origin related to it and I found myself unable to. The same goes for Arl Howe. Had I not played the Human Noble origin, I most likely would have viewed him in a whole different light.

[J.O.G]

Before I had the game, I was unamazed of the origin story as well. Yes, it is character limiting, but it also helps to think outside the box. Come on, I never played a pampered noble who steals for the thrills, and I play some kind of scoundrel in every RPG.



I found it silly that you actually can make a grizzled old char, origin aside, it doesn't make much sense for that geezer to have nothing learned in his whole life and rising from level 1 to 22 in a couple of months.



Have only quickly checked out other origins yet, but human noble rogue, my pet peeve before release, works very well for me, vengeance is a strong motivator. Of course my char doesn't see Duncan as a mentor and alternates between gratitude and hatred on his opportunistic move. Must have been Duncan's personal hell to escort my rogue to Ostagar.

[jdeneweth]

I've never really "cared" about a PC before. Sure I've come up with backstories but they never really fit into fixed plots like they can in table top games. The origins really brought the PC to life in a way I haven't seen in a CRPG since PS:T. I genuinely cared about my human noble's family. I wanted to see his foes vanquished. I can't really say more in a non-spoiler board, but I really liked most of the origins - they added a lot of personal motivations.



One idea that I had that I think would be really cool is if you played a small origin story for new characters that join the party. For example if you met a dwarven warrior as he joined the party you would then play a flashback of him explaining up to the point he joins the party. He might be fighting his way to the place you meet or on a quest that you help him complete. You would control him solo with his own inventory until you get to the point where he meets the PC and then inventories are merged. The flashback might even play a little bit differently depending on the PC's previous actions/decisions. I think this would give a greater sense of backstory and flavor to companions.

[ne12o]

i would say bioware dropped the ball on this part of the game. it isn't game breaking but these minor issues are what seperates the men from the boys.
if you were going to give predefined characteristics to the origins, then limit what you do on the customization of the charactor. If it was predefined that your parents are paler than white, why allow the player to make a black guy with a huge white beard? 

it simply makes the game a bit awkward. Not all of us research the origins before playing, we simply go to the store and the game interested us so we bought it and we started playing. And its like "cool i can make my own guy", then all of a sudden your family is paler than white when you made a black guy and your "dad" and "mom" are half the age of your charactor.

jdeneweth wrote...

I've never really "cared" about a PC
before. Sure I've come up with backstories but they never really fit
into fixed plots like they can in table top games. The origins really
brought the PC to life in a way I haven't seen in a CRPG since PS:T. I
genuinely cared about my human noble's family. I wanted to see his foes
vanquished. I can't really say more in a non-spoiler board, but I
really liked most of the origins - they added a lot of personal
motivations.

One idea that I had that I think would be really
cool is if you played a small origin story for new characters that join
the party. For example if you met a dwarven warrior as he joined the
party you would then play a flashback of him explaining up to the point
he joins the party. He might be fighting his way to the place you meet
or on a quest that you help him complete. You would control him solo
with his own inventory until you get to the point where he meets the PC
and then inventories are merged. The flashback might even play a little
bit differently depending on the PC's previous actions/decisions. I
think this would give a greater sense of backstory and flavor to
companions.

Amen brother, that would been epic of a game, where you play the backstories of all the charactors in your party.

Modifié par ne12o, 21 novembre 2009 - 07:34 .

[gogmagog]

 I do think that there should be a 'Skip origin' option, which would be for those who have played through it and just want to get to the main game. The game asks if you want to skip, and if so, boosts you to level three and brings you to Ostlar(sp)

[Rayne Myria Solo]

JKoopman wrote...


I don't know what ****-istic GMs you play
with but around here the GMs don't typically define the player
characters' age and race for them.

I love the Internet, it's the only place where someone can basically deliberately misconstrue anything anyone says, twist it into what they think it says, and then insult someone using it. It's absolutely priceless.

What I said was that a GM defines certain elements of your backstory and origin for you. No where in my statement did I say that your GM determines the "age and race" of your character. DAO doesn't determine your Race either, you may choose from any of the ones the game offers. As for age, that's subjective, as an elf could be hundreds of years old, and look 20, your age is basically left entirely vague.

hell even LotRO defines your Elf's age for you to an extent, as you take part in a battle several hundred years before the "main" part of the game in your prologue, and you've been said to be wandering since. So that means your elf in LotRO is at LEAST 200ish years old (still young for an elf).

[jdeneweth]

I wasn't aware that the dragon age universe had black and asian "races". In character creation you can give yourself facial features or skin that resemble the races we call black and asian but in a fantasy game you really need to use some imagination. They made a game where dragons exists. Maybe your character has dark skin because of magic. It certainly isn't because hes from Africa.



If they dropped the ball on anything it was when they made a character creater based on reality for a fantasy game. There are very few dark skinned people in DA:O and AFAIK the game never explains why their skin is dark. I suspect this is sadly just for political correctness, but it doesn't make the game any better and I don't really see how people can think its racist to not have people of African descent in a fantasy world in which there is no Africa.

[Fivexxxxx]

There are also Caucasians and Spaniards in a world where Europe does not exist. Your argument is invalid.

[aberdash]

The closer a people originate to the equator the darker their skin. One would presume then that darker skinned people came from north of Ferelden.

[jdeneweth]

Fivexxxxx wrote...

There are also Caucasians and Spaniards in a world where Europe does not exist. Your argument is invalid.

I never argued that there was a Europe or that there were people of European descent in DA:O.  There are people with what we call "white" skin.  It wasn't my decisions.  Thats just how they are in the game.  I will admit that the skin tone, facial features, culture and language/accents are all very similar to real world Europe.  I can't really speak for bioware or why they seemingly based their game on Europe.  My arguement is perfectly valid though. 

aberdash wrote...

The closer a people originate to the
equator the darker their skin. One would presume then that darker
skinned people came from north of Ferelden.

Yeah, its not that I don't understand that, but its a game where dragons exists.  Theres all sorts of magic.  For all we know there isn't an equator because the world is flat.  Maybe the in game sun isn't a giant star at the center of the solar system but it really is the maker's light.  I know that sounds stupid because its far fetched but at some point applying real world logic to a world with dragons is just as silly.  Assuming the dragon age solar system is similar to ours that would explain darker skin near the equator but it doesn't really explain the African facial features or hair styles that scream token political correctness. 

I have no problem if there is some lore explaining that dark skinned humans and/or elves come from an africa-like place.  I've always wondered why dwarves that live underground have darker skin than humans in a lot of games.

Modifié par jdeneweth, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:12 .

[CraigCWB]

RogueAssassinX,



"Ok, there's getting into character, and then there is this. Which, IMHO, is a little out there. This is a video game RPG, not a pen & paper RPG. Why can't you just get into the character as presented?"



because Bioware always "presents" characters as being 14 year old boys who are preoccupied with rebelling against bad parents and heartless school teachers who are suddenly called upon to save the world, due no doubt to their extensive experience dealing with such evildoers as bad parents and heartless school teachers.



I think I would have found that a little cliche even when I was 14. And I can't even remember being 14 very clearly, it was so long ago. If we have to go with prefab background stories, then the least Bioware could of is make them generic enough that they are one-size-fits-all. What's wrong with a blacksmith who has just set up shop in a new town for instance? He could be an old dude who lost his family in a war and decided to start over, or he could be a teenager who ran away from home and is just trying to make his way in the world, etc. What matters is how people deal with somebody knew in their midst, not in the specifics of how he got there.

[J.O.G]

DA:O is an old school RPG from a time where where the "R" didn't mean that you play yourself in a certain role (job, task) but a completely different character (role like in theatre). There is no reason why a male black human couldn't play a female white elf, just like there is no reason why a black author couldn't write a book with a caucasian protagonist.



A black grayhaired human noble just creates a couple of plot holes, those of us who would have liked to actually play Daveth's origin cannot do it at all. This is the price you have to pay for story.

[marshalleck]

I'm still not seeing any reasoning that demonstrates how DAO would be better with significant portions of the introductory content cut just for the sake of cosmetic differences in characters.

Modifié par marshalleck, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:05 .

[marshalleck]

CraigCWB wrote...

because Bioware always "presents" characters as being 14 year old boys who are preoccupied with rebelling against bad parents and heartless school teachers who are suddenly called upon to save the world, due no doubt to their extensive experience dealing with such evildoers as bad parents and heartless school teachers.

This is rather extreme exaggeration. Which origin do you think this describes? I ask because not a single aspect of what you describe exists in any of the origins I've played (all but dwarf so far). If you have to bolster an argument with wild exaggeration and hyperbole, it means your argument is critically flawed.

Modifié par marshalleck, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:12 .

[Mnemnosyne]

ne12o wrote...

i would say bioware dropped the ball on this part of the game. it isn't game breaking but these minor issues are what seperates the men from the boys.
if you were going to give predefined characteristics to the origins, then limit what you do on the customization of the charactor. If it was predefined that your parents are paler than white, why allow the player to make a black guy with a huge white beard? 

it simply makes the game a bit awkward. Not all of us research the origins before playing, we simply go to the store and the game interested us so we bought it and we started playing. And its like "cool i can make my own guy", then all of a sudden your family is paler than white when you made a black guy and your "dad" and "mom" are half the age of your charactor.

Remember that the game also has a toolset where we can create our own campaigns.  The character creator has all that variance presumably because it may be useful in player-made campaigns, or in future expansions/dlc/sequels.

My first human noble character I created was in fact a black girl.  Once I met my family I realized that didn't work, so I rerolled and made an appropriate looking character.  It might have been nicer if they'd set it up so your family takes on key aspects of your character's appearance, sure.  But they didn't.  It's not a big deal.  I lost a whole five or so minutes in which I had the opening conversations and met my family, then I deleted the character and started again with an appropriate one.

[CraigCWB]

marshalleck,



"This is rather extreme exaggeration. Which origin do you think this describes? I ask because not a single aspect of what you describe exists in any of the origins I've played (all but dwarf so far). If you have to bolster an argument with wild exaggeration and hyperbole, it means your argument is critically flawed."



The City Elf and the Human Noble are both 14 year old boys who live with their parent(s). If the fact they actually do live with their parents wasn't enough to demonstrate their age, then the way everyone else treats your character makes it perfectly clear. You are a child taking his/her first steps into adulthood.



The Dwarf Commoner is similar but since you play a street urchin who is employed by a crime boss it isn't as obvious. But you still live in mom's house, and you resent the hell out of her drunkeness and abusive behavior and you are very protective of your sister. If that wasn't enough of a clue, being asked by your sister what you want to be when you grow up should settle it! Again, you are a (sophisticated)child taking your first steps into adult hood.



These background stories are much too cliche. And they really don't have to be. They could do background stories that are just as compelling which don't have anything age or family specific in them.

[Kalcalan]

Your character must have a past. Does the OP resent the fact that everything about that past is not up to the player?



Some people won't play pnp if they don't create their characters from scratch, others don't mind roleplaying premade characters.



More origins would be nice and that's a fact. I'd like to play a Warrior who would be a commoner. I understand that some origins had to be cut off due to delays and game production.



I'd suggest playing The Witcher as the comparison would show in which ways Dragon Age: Origins is more flexible.



The way I see it this game offers a valid compromise, it would be impossible to have that much immersion without having origins in the game.

[marshalleck]

Age is never explicitly mentioned in either origin, and there are significant flaws with your premise. The alienage is supposed to be crowded with elves living in tightly clustered family groups. It's not like a young elf can go get a swank pad of his own on the hip side of town as soon as he hits adulthood.

As to the human noble origin. Your father and brother are leaving to go to war, and you're left in charge of the family castle. Would they really leave that in the hands of a 14 year old? They comment repeatedly on your ability to fight and keep the family affairs in order while they are away. And why wouldn't a human noble live in their family's keep, regardless of age? Ferelden isn't modern America where kids are packed off to college or otherwise kicked out of the family home once they turn 18.

The impression I get from dialogue and NPC reaction to the player character is that most if not all are in their early 20s, or an equivalent stage of development for non-human races.

Modifié par marshalleck, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:43 .