167 réponses à ce sujet

[tanarri23]

Not saying the Architect won't be retconned into a Magister who has forgotten himself completely...but at this point, I really think he's a darkspawn aberration like he says he is. His behaviour is just a lot more consistent with that than it is with being a ancient, powerful, formerly human Magister. Just look at how he completely screws up his plans and gets nearly killed in The Calling because he trusts obviously untrustworthy people and shares information with his allies that will obviously turn them into his enemies - even when advised by an actual human to keep it secret.  It could be  layers of manipulation and deception to make your head spin, but somehow  it really looks just like a foolish and ignorant darkspawn.

He has obviously learned by the time you meet him in Awakening and will now gladly tell half-truths and blatant lies, and in a sweet way too, in order to have his way. Still doesn't make him any more of a Magister than an Arcane Horror (and he looks an awful lot like those, too).

Modifié par tanarri23, 01 août 2011 - 10:07 .

[Rifneno]

tanarri23 wrote...

Not saying the Architect won't be retconned into a Magister who has forgotten himself completely...but at this point, I really think he's a darkspawn aberration like he says he is. His behaviour is just a lot more consistent with that than it is with being a ancient, powerful, formerly human Magister. Just look at how he completely screws up his plans and gets nearly killed in The Calling because he trusts obviously untrustworthy people and shares information with his allies that will obviously turn them into his enemies - even when advised by an actual human to keep it secret.  It could be  layers of manipulation and deception to make your head spin, but somehow  it really looks just like a foolish and ignorant darkspawn.

He has obviously learned by the time you meet him in Awakening and will now gladly tell half-truths and blatant lies, and in a sweet way too, in order to have his way. Still doesn't make him any more of a Magister than an Arcane Horror (and he looks an awful lot like thse, too).

There's a big difference between a retcon and a secret that wasn't revealed yet.   Having the Architect be a magister is no more a retcon than the eluvian turning out to be more than a plot device for the Dalish origin.  As for his behavior, there's several explanations.  For one, the guy's like two thousand years old.  How much of that was spent socializing with people?  If The Calling was his first interaction with sentient life in a thousand years, it's understandable that he'd be... rusty.

I really don't understand though how people can brush off the fact he's sentient.  You can say "he's just a freak of nature" but that holds no water.  You don't have a race that's pretty much nothing but basic instincts and bloodlust and then have one born that's smarter than most humans, talks, is literate, and is capable of scientific research.  That just doesn't happen, okay?  Evolution takes countless generations and it walks in baby steps.  Hell, wisdom teeth are an evolutionary left-over from when our ancestors had longer jaws and ate more plantlife.  The Architect just being a genetic deviant would be like finding a bipedal dog that can teach at Harvard while the other millions of his species are still licking their own anuses.  He's a magister.

[tanarri23]

While I don't think there's necessarily more to what he is (a hurlock emissary), I'm willing to bet there's more to why he is the way he is 

Modifié par tanarri23, 01 août 2011 - 11:33 .

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

.  The Architect just being a genetic deviant would be like finding a bipedal dog that can teach at Harvard while the other millions of his species are still licking their own anuses.  He's a magister.

I love the way you phrase things

[kwinkatopo]

 ElvaliaRavenHart:

>LOL, well it seems that you read enough of my post to make your points! 

I read everything, I just wanted to hone in on one line at a time to make it easier. I've also read everything you posted in what I'm responding to. Come on, I play Dragon Age. It's not exactly an RPG you go through without reading something.

>Anders' and Alistair's appearance:

It could be more than possible. You seem to have a much tighter grasp on the overall story than I do, so I wouldn't doubt it. But it still seems, from tone of voice to wording, that Alistair's appearance has more to do with other things besides the taint. However, since wardens don't usually get past, what, 32? I'm starting to see your point. Anders' appearance, though, I think has to ultimately do with a lot of confliction; he's not only a warden that's aging, he's got a corrupted spirit in him and (as you've pointed out now that I remember he's a warden) Corypheus could have been pulling his strings since he arrived in the Free Marches. Kudos for that point.

>Aveline and Wesley:

I totally agree here, but I'm just saying that it's possible that she was just saying, "The Darkspawn won't have you," to ease the both of them. I know I'd rather be killed than beco... never mind, I actually think it'd be kind of cool to be a Darkspawn. But still, I don't think he did. I just think this one line is more simple than you're making it out to be; not the story, just this one line.

>Dumat:

I was just saying that I wanted to look deeper here. I haven't really payed the greatest attention to the old gods' stories, but when Cory was speaking I honestly felt that Dumat was more than listening. So we also agree here. I just need to read more on this. (I have played Legacy, by the way.)

>Sandal:

There's no doubt about it - when The Architect, Corypheus, (possibly) Flemeth, all of the old gods turned into arch demons and every scrap of army they can pick up join forces, Sandal's going to destroy them in one fowl swoop.

>Larius and Janeka:

I'm under the same speculation as you, except for the part where Janeka was told by "the Commander". I thought he meant himself, as Larius was her Commander before he mutated into this... er, thing.

>Base in Kirkwall:

Good point here. This also kind of burns my bottom knowing that those wardens before fighting the Arishok could have probably stayed and helped. My Hawke can help them with their dirty work after saving a city, but it would have been faster had they decided to help me for half an hour.

>Cory taking over Anders' mind in the DLC:

You're more than correct assuming I haven't played it with him in my party. I forgot he was a warden, and I've also kind of thought he was a bit of a turd-monkey since playing the main story with him, so I never use him anymore. This has peaked my interest, though, so I'm going to take him with me if and when I re-play today.

>Possession of Janeka:

I thought this was pretty straight forward. Going with Bioware's "not black & white, but gray" approach, my first playthrough I knew Larius had the better intentions and was right about Janeka being possessed. When you side with her she even talks about her possession (right before or after the Cory fight, I forget which). It's still weird how both she and Larius walk away with that smirk, though. Those were the most uneasy smirks I've ever seen.

>The Chantry and The Wardens:

I hadn't thought much of it until you put it that way. They're close to the Darkspawn, they'll use any means necessary to win a fight (including Blood magic), they don't have to follow the Chantrys jurisdiction, etc. This one's going to have me wondering up until DA3 comes out, now. Or we get a DLC/expansion explaining it.

I still, overall (without having read the books), am under the speculation that The Architect is somehow related to the first blight. Just thinking about it: The Architect designed how they were going to do it exactly, and who with, while Corypheus (The Conductor) lead the way - this just makes sense to me. Your points are awesome, but this is just my gut feeling that I'm going to stick with for now. Thanks for the read and the site for fanfiction, I'm going to check that out. 


(Some words in this post were highlighted and put in bold for maximum awesome.)

Modifié par kwinkatopo, 01 août 2011 - 02:12 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

If I remember correctly, a warden gets nearly 30 years to survive the taint. Many players have speculated that Alistair was anywhere from his early twenties to mid-twenties in DAO. My guess was always him being 23-25. So in my world, he is clipping 30-32. I don't think the developers have ever truly said how old he is. So I'm guessing if they move the story forward another 10 years then he will be near his calling.

What you're saying about Aveline is also true, she is a defender of those she loves. I'm just groaning over the fact....oh great another story hook and we don't know why in regards to Wesley! LOL.

I think alot of players agree that the elven gods and the old gods are one and the same or they were at war with each other. Speculation and theories abound over them. Some of them really good too. Sucn as the one who tricked both sides and walked freely among them. I can't think of his name right now. Fen'heirel (sp)? Many believe that he is also the Maker.

Larius could have been talking about himself. In honesty I wasn't certain. What surprised me with this is why didn't this order come down from the First Warden? We also know that the Hero of Ferelden is missing (our wardens), it could have been Alistair as well if you keep him a warden and didn't make him King or a drunk. Stroud could have been the Commander also. Come to think on it, I don't see it being Larius, he was trapped inside the prison. Janeka seemed to have more freedom of movment than Larius. She called herself a commander and I don't think she was.

I fully understand what you're saying about the Wardens not helping with the Arishok. My point of views is that the Cory was more of a threat than the Arishok. Other countries might have come to the Free Marches aid being other nations that follow the Chantry. I see Nevarra, Antiva, and Orlai possibly lending a hand if the war had spread. Ferelden is up in the air since they are still recovering from the blight. You also make a good point, with the wardens help. Yes, they should have helped, I was also ticked that they didn't.

As for Anders I really hate what they did to him in DA2. I miss the sweet charming mage from Awakenings. It was really hard to take him lying to my Hawkes all the way through the new game. I remember the first time I played DA2 and Anders blew up the Chantry I said, Oh crap, I have to decided to kill Anders. He was my love interest in my first game and I did kill him.

I saw a tip on Larius and Janeka. On your next playthrough side with Janeka first, then betray her just before the Cory fight. I got a totally different feel from Larius afterwards.

That is very interesting about the Architect and the Corypheus leading the way during the blights. I don't think anyone has made this point on the first blight. I did get the impression from Janeka that Cory might have been nvolved with the 5th blight in Ferelden. Which raised another question for me. Can the magisters control the Arch Demon? How many people was he able to control at one time was also a question which came to my mind when playing.

One of the best fanfictions that I read was over at live journal called "Midwinter's Thaw". It was great. Some really great cliff hangars in that one.  The humor in this fanfiction is great also.  Also the Wolves of War over at wordpress.  Also Soulmates at fanfiction.net. Dark Ritual also at fanfiction.net. I hope you check them out. Great reads all of them. 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 01 août 2011 - 04:41 .

[Raya Aroukii]

ElvaliaRavenHart, just to let you know, it "Tevinter", not Trevinter.

Also, when Aveline said, "Flames. We're too late." She was basically cursing, not calling the hurlocks by a title.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Raya Aroukii wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart, just to let you know, it "Tevinter", not Trevinter.

Also, when Aveline said, "Flames. We're too late." She was basically cursing, not calling the hurlocks by a title.

Gee thanks.

Who made you Bioware's grammar police?

You may have taken this as a cuss word and if so, she would have used it more.  Such as in her snide remarks with Isabela, Anders, and Carver.  Also could have been used as her battle cry.  No, it wasn't a cuss word in my mind.  She calls the darkspawn flames, period.  Just my opinion, and you're opinion seems to be it was cuss word.  Fine with me.

[Raya Aroukii]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Raya Aroukii wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart, just to let you know, it "Tevinter", not Trevinter.

Also, when Aveline said, "Flames. We're too late." She was basically cursing, not calling the hurlocks by a title.

Gee thanks.

Who made you Bioware's grammar police?

You may have taken this as a cuss word and if so, she would have used it more.  Such as in her snide remarks with Isabela, Anders, and Carver.  Also could have been used as her battle cry.  No, it wasn't a cuss word in my mind.  She calls the darkspawn flames, period.  Just my opinion, and you're opinion seems to be it was cuss word.  Fine with me.

Gee, I didn't know that correcting someone's misspelling of a city, even if fictional, was such a grave offense...

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Raya Aroukii wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Raya Aroukii wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart, just to let you know, it "Tevinter", not Trevinter.

Also, when Aveline said, "Flames. We're too late." She was basically cursing, not calling the hurlocks by a title.

Gee thanks.

Who made you Bioware's grammar police?

You may have taken this as a cuss word and if so, she would have used it more.  Such as in her snide remarks with Isabela, Anders, and Carver.  Also could have been used as her battle cry.  No, it wasn't a cuss word in my mind.  She calls the darkspawn flames, period.  Just my opinion, and you're opinion seems to be it was cuss word.  Fine with me.

Gee, I didn't know that correcting someone's misspelling of a city, even if fictional, was such a grave offense...

Well since you've taken this upon yourself you must be a very busy person.  There are grammar and spelling mistakes on the forum all the time.  Personally, I think it is rude.    There is a thread on this forum currently where someone didn't spell Isabela correctly so you might want to correct them too.  I noticed this person's mistake; but, I wasn't rude enough to point this out to the person and make the person feel bad.   Why, because this person might be younger than me and still a young teen and it was an honest mistake.   Also, people from different countries spell Isabela differently.   

[PinkShoes]

i doubt it because he said he was born.

[Ginkeh]

Raya Aroukii wrote...

Gee, I didn't know that correcting someone's misspelling of a city, even if fictional, was such a grave offense...

Tevinter isn`t a city. =)


edit: quote fail

Modifié par Ginkeh, 01 août 2011 - 08:04 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Ginkeh wrote...

Raya Aroukii wrote...

Gee, I didn't know that correcting someone's misspelling of a city, even if fictional, was such a grave offense...

Tevinter isn`t a city. =)


edit: quote fail

@ Ginkeh 

That's right, Tevinter is a country. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

They did say in the preview of Legacy that it would reveal more about what kind of creature the Architect is, so I'm guessing he is a magister, cause that is the only relation there is between the Architect and Corypheus. They also both have a "creator" title: The Architect and the Conductor.

[WhiteKnyght]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They did say in the preview of Legacy that it would reveal more about what kind of creature the Architect is, so I'm guessing he is a magister, cause that is the only relation there is between the Architect and Corypheus. They also both have a "creator" title: The Architect and the Conductor.

I didn't know this little part. And it makes sense.

The Architect's design is Pre-DAII so if he reappears he'll probably look different, and maybe look more like corypheus. But they do both have human-like faces as well as a similar feature where the side of their face is fused into something.

[Sajuro]

Helekanalaith wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Perhaps as RagingCyclone theorized, Cory IS Dumat and was never actually "killed" by the 1st Wardens, but actually trapped.

Edit - and Hawk just started another blight

That would be interesting if Dumat went into a Magister Darkspawn, and now they've got a whole Anders/Justice thing going on.


And when Hawke killed him, Dumat went into Larius/Janeka. Corypheus the Magister is dead, but Dumat isn't.

A nice theory for sure.

However! It doesn't explain why a grey warden would die after performing a killing blow against an archdemon. If Corypheus was in fact Dumat incarnated then Larius/Janeka would have dropped dead right then and there when his soul passed to either of them.

Unless the archdemons aren't actual Old Gods in dragon form but something else entirely... Dundunduuun!

The best I could figure is that Larius was nothing more than the other side of a sentient darkspawn at that point in his calling, he died but he is not dead so his soul was destroyed. Janeka could have been irreversibly tainted and reduced to a state like Larius by Cory awakening.

[ZeroDotZero]

From what Corypheus seemed to say, the Black City was already tainted when they got there. Is it possible that the Architect got there beforehand? Maybe afterwards, but who knows?

The Architect's design is more Orlesian than Corypheus', in my opinion.

[TEWR]

The only thing Orlesian about the Architect to me is the mask, which is no doubt to hide his missing eyes.


Or completely blackened eyes. I can't tell.

[Sepewrath]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They did say in the preview of Legacy that it would reveal more about what kind of creature the Architect is, so I'm guessing he is a magister, cause that is the only relation there is between the Architect and Corypheus. They also both have a "creator" title: The Architect and the Conductor.

I don't recall that ever being said. That would be a pretty big plot point to give away in a preview.

[WhiteKnyght]

The Robes of the Architect appear to be Tevinter in style. Look at Anders' Tevinter robes in Awakening and compare. Long, single piece gown with weird pauldrons

[Rifneno]

Sepewrath wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They did say in the preview of Legacy that it would reveal more about what kind of creature the Architect is, so I'm guessing he is a magister, cause that is the only relation there is between the Architect and Corypheus. They also both have a "creator" title: The Architect and the Conductor.

I don't recall that ever being said. That would be a pretty big plot point to give away in a preview.

I searched around a lot trying to find out where it was said.  I think he means this: http://social.biowar...7829490#7830582

Someone with a Bioware tag said "It's not the Architect, but it does bear a striking resemblance doesn't it. If you enjoy the DA lore, you're in for treat as you learn more about what it is."  I guess it could be interpreted not to mean they're the same thing but it's a bit of a stretch IMO.  Then again, I really don't understand how there's any doubt at all.

[WhiteKnyght]

I watched a video and saw Corypheus' full body. And damn, he does look just like the Architect his form. Right down to the muscleless figure and the boney enlongated hands. Only thing that's different is the outfit and the head.

I'm convinced. Old Archie was a Magister. And this also means there could be more of them out there. More corrupted magisters.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 03 août 2011 - 05:46 .

[Rifneno]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

I watched a video and saw Corypheus' full body. And damn, he does look just like the Architect his form. Right down to the muscleless figure and the boney enlongated hands. Only thing that's different is the outfit and the head.

I'm convinced. Old Archie was a Magister. And this also means there could be more of them out there. More corrupted magisters.

Amen, brother.

Three to be exact, BTW. The artwork in both games always shows five robed figures when the narrator is mentioning the magisters breaching the Fade. They're the kind of immortal that Tolkien elves were (as in they can die from injury but not age or presumably sickness) and they're immensely powerful with magic. So it wouldn't be hard to imagine all five still being around. Though I do wonder why the Architect wasn't with any of the others. The Wardens seemed to treat Corypheus as a special case so I don't imagine the others are imprisoned. Though admittedly it's not like Larius, let alone Janeka, would know all the Wardens' secrets. But if the others are still around, I would think they'd be working together for good or ill. Oh well, time will tell I guess.

I wonder if the magisters' semi-immortality is related to the elves' loss of theirs... The darkspawn corruption actually being a malignant mutation of the elves' stolen immortality would be a good explanation but I don't know how it'd fit now that we know the golden city story was at least partially true. Maybe Dumat siphoned it off the elves into the Golden/Black City (Gold? Black? Black gold? Dibs on "Oil City!") and it was somehow twisted.

[Sajuro]

Maybe all of the Magisters have been asleep since they were cast out and the Architect was simply the first to awaken, the Wardens made a big deal out of Cory because he was the only one they have found. On a related note, kind of, I would like to interject that the age got its name because of the Dragons re-emerging but also because the Divine predicted that it would be a time of great change, which so far has had Ferelden become free, a Grey Warden defeat the blight in a year and possibly live to tell about it, the wardens getting their own area to rule, the rise of Hawke and the fall of the circles, whose to say that the awakening of the magisters and a change involving the blights are not also on the horizon.

[Demx]

I suppose suggesting the Architect might be an experiment of the Magisters, might be too far fetched?