167 réponses à ce sujet

[Bullets McDeath]

Honestly, I think you guys are giving Bioware too much credit. The Architect is what is he said he was, a biological fluke. There's nothing for Bioware to "gain" by holding this plot point as a secret. If the Architect were one of the original Magisters, they'd have said so. Also, Corypheus was in stasis, mostly alone, for just as long if not longer than the Architect and he didn't "forget" who and what he was, so it really doesn't hold any water. Yes, their appearances are similar but given the... fluid... continuity of art styles in Dragon Age, that's hardly enough to base a whole theory around. You might as well say Flemeth is half-Qunari because of the way she wears her hair.

Just my thoughts.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 03 août 2011 - 08:49 .

[Ginkeh]

Maybe Bioware hadn`t even considered bringing the old magisters into the game at the time the Architect was written in Awakening and The Calling.

No one knows (except maybe the writer team at Bioware) what The Architect is, hence all the speculating (which is fun!)

Also, being in a state of stasis vs. staying conscious for oh.. 1000 years, I don`t think it`s too far fetched one kept his mind, and the other one lost it. (far fetched for a fantasy universe that is )

[Urazz]

I'm thinking maybe one of the original magisters, like Corypheus, was a woman but since the orignal darkspawn look different from standard darkspawn, I don't think she was turned into a brood mother. I'm thinking she is able to have darkspawn 'children' in the more traditional way and the Architect is a result of that.

[Sepewrath]

OK I'm just playing through Legacy again and came across a codex that makes me think, even moreso that the Architect is nothing but a Darkspawn. The codex says

"Early Wardens discovered that some darkspawn could think and speak and commanded portions of the horde even after the Archdemon's death. A few could wield magic with the skill of a Tevinter magister, and the Wardens greatly feared them."

So they have come across a number of Architect like darkspawn, right after the first Blight, so unless they found every Tevinter magister right away; which is unlikely since they singled out the magister level power, it seems likely that the Architect was just another one of these intelligent darkspawn and nothing more.

[In Exile]

That's actually foreshadowing for the magister link, I think. And the Architect was not just a talking darkspawn. Compare him to the First.

[Rifneno]

Urazz wrote...

I'm thinking maybe one of the original magisters, like Corypheus, was a woman but since the orignal darkspawn look different from standard darkspawn, I don't think she was turned into a brood mother. I'm thinking she is able to have darkspawn 'children' in the more traditional way and the Architect is a result of that.

Nothing says "secks me up" like a barely-fathomable evil deformation curse inflicted by the betrayal of one's deity.

[kwinkatopo]

Sepewrath wrote...

OK I'm just playing through Legacy again and came across a codex that makes me think, even moreso that the Architect is nothing but a Darkspawn. The codex says

"Early Wardens discovered that some darkspawn could think and speak and commanded portions of the horde even after the Archdemon's death. A few could wield magic with the skill of a Tevinter magister, and the Wardens greatly feared them."

So they have come across a number of Architect like darkspawn, right after the first Blight, so unless they found every Tevinter magister right away; which is unlikely since they singled out the magister level power, it seems likely that the Architect was just another one of these intelligent darkspawn and nothing more.

Emissaries do all of those things and were around in Origins without the Architect art. To edit further: None of these Darkspawn have been known to possess the intelligence of The Architect as far as we know. Not only that, but he's also the only Dawkspawn that has been cunning enough to try to pull off huge, scientific plans that we only ever see high intellect mages doing, like cloning our party.

Modifié par kwinkatopo, 04 août 2011 - 03:40 .

[Sepewrath]

They haven't detailed any of these other intelligent talking Darkspawn, so we don't know if any of them tried anything. The same way the Architect was responsible for the 5th Blight, another talking Darkspawn could have been responsible for the 3rd one, in attempt to pull of some grand scheme. So the only thing we can separate the Architect out from is, being an intelligent Darkspawn we personally saw, but we cant give him credit for doing something beyond the others, because we don't know if he did.

[WhiteKnyght]

Sepewrath wrote...

They haven't detailed any of these other intelligent talking Darkspawn, so we don't know if any of them tried anything. The same way the Architect was responsible for the 5th Blight, another talking Darkspawn could have been responsible for the 3rd one, in attempt to pull of some grand scheme. So the only thing we can separate the Architect out from is, being an intelligent Darkspawn we personally saw, but we cant give him credit for doing something beyond the others, because we don't know if he did.

Well the similarities between Corypheus and the Architect are breathtaking. I wouldn't be surprised if they made his in-game model off of the Architect's.

The Taint doesn't exactly give too many allowances in those born from it. The only thing that's changed the taint at all in over 1000 years is the Architect's magical experiments.

And the Architect himself. Just because he claimed he was born free of the call doesn't explain other things. Like how he's so intelligent. I doubt Darkspawn can go to the surface, have someone teach them to read, then go around studying ancient dwarven libraries.

Not to mention his magical abilities, the other darkspawn emessaries aren't exactly smart enough to use or teach the level of magical ability that the Architect has. Also how the Architect conveniently didn't know any healing magic. The Tevinter Magisters were experts in blood magic, which can be used for a lot of things, but lacks in the healing department. And according to Remille, the "darkspawn" magic he taught him felt like blood magic. For all we know thats what it was, the taint is carried through the blood, is it not? Even Avernus' research was done using blood magic.

The conclusion. The Architect is as much a liar as he is calm and cunning.

And if Corypheus and Archie are still around after all this time. the others likely are too. And if the opening CGs of Origins are any reference, there are at least five of them.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 05 août 2011 - 03:13 .

[Sepewrath]

Well it wouldn't be surprising that Darkspawn magic is like blood magic, they probably have no connection to the Fade and probably are forced to use blood(despite mana clash putting a hurt on them lol) And he could be smart simply because he's like the others are an anomaly, their lack of intelligence is probably a product of living their lives as slaves to the calling. They are driven by instinct and hence have no reason to gain intelligence; if he was born basically free of the call, he would need intelligence to function.

[Rahelron]

Watch this video:



It is interesting because at 2:00 a Bioware Emplyee explicitly compares the Architect and Corypheus. He says that "they are very similar" and that Legacy is going to reveal more details about "these creatures" and the lore behind them.

I think this solves the whole thing. The Architect and Corypheus are the same kind of creature, so they must be both Ancient Magisters.

[Rifneno]

Rahelron wrote...

Watch this video:



It is interesting because at 2:00 a Bioware Emplyee explicitly compares the Architect and Corypheus. He says that "they are very similar" and that Legacy is going to reveal more details about "these creatures" and the lore behind them.

I think this solves the whole thing. The Architect and Corypheus are the same kind of creature, so they must be both Ancient Magisters.

Excellent find.  *applauds*

[electricfish]

Alright, here's my half-baked theory, working on the assumption that Cory and The Architect are actually old Tevinter Magisters.

* Cory's title is The Conductor, and The Architect is himself. Archie never gave out his real name on the very slim chance that it could be traced back through history to a real Tevinter citizen.

Corypheus (working under the orders of Dumat) gets a team together to figure out a way to breach the Golden City in the Fade and take the supposed power of the gods that's there. He now becomes the Conductor, the leader of this band.
The Architect was chosen to design a plan to get the Magisters into the Fade safely with their physical forms. He'd be the one designing the glyphs, working out the timing details, the amount of lyrium and slaves needed, etc.

Another Magister would have to be drafted into being The Protector. He's be the one researching or performing the spells necessary to shield their physical forms from whatever might be in the Fade, and from the massive shock such magic could unleash.

I'm not sure what the other roles would be, but it's sort of playing out like every heist movie with a squad (Inception, Ocean's 11, 12, 13, etc). There's the original team of Magisters who may each have a connection with their patron Old God due to drinking their blood or somesuch.

When these Magisters actually broke into the Golden City *something* happened that broke The Protectors shielding spells. This could be because of the Maker, or the elven pantheon of gods. Either way, when their physical bodies touched the Golden City, the Fade freaked the hell out and had a terrible reaction to something that was not supposed to be. The City turned black, and the mutating powers of the Fade spirits witnessing these Magisters warped their appearance along with the resulting magical cataclysm. Their bodies ...absorbed shall we say, the corruption of ideas and pieces of the magic that caused it, which then forcefully ejected them from the Fade back into Thedas.
BAM!

If that weren't bad enough, the connection each Magister had with his patron Old God caused the dragons to sort of ...bury them underneath the earth like Arlathan. While the shock wouldn't be enough to corrupt them into Archdemons immediately, their power allowed them to fall into a damage control statis. There's been no evidence of an Old God waking before it's been tainted, so perhaps once it's corrupted, it severs the tie it had with the original Magister.

[LadyVaJedi]

I thought that the Architect couldn't remember his name. I believe that he said that he has always been this way.

[Rahelron]

LadyVaJedi wrote...

I thought that the Architect couldn't remember his name. I believe that he said that he has always been this way.

This is what he tells you during Awakening, but we know that he is a liar. He lied about other things too, for instance he never told the warden that he was the cause of the fifth blight. Minor details, don't you think?

[HSHAW]

Rahelron wrote...

LadyVaJedi wrote...

I thought that the Architect couldn't remember his name. I believe that he said that he has always been this way.

This is what he tells you during Awakening, but we know that he is a liar. He lied about other things too, for instance he never told the warden that he was the cause of the fifth blight. Minor details, don't you think?

He also says it in The Calling and he didn't know the first thing about manipulating people in The Calling.

[electricfish]

He's also been alive for forever. See how many details you remember about yourself after a few hundred/thousand/whatever years. Shale didn't remember much until it got a memory kickstart.

[WhiteKnyght]

Sepewrath wrote...

Well it wouldn't be surprising that Darkspawn magic is like blood magic, they probably have no connection to the Fade and probably are forced to use blood(despite mana clash putting a hurt on them lol) And he could be smart simply because he's like the others are an anomaly, their lack of intelligence is probably a product of living their lives as slaves to the calling. They are driven by instinct and hence have no reason to gain intelligence; if he was born basically free of the call, he would need intelligence to function.

Thats the thing though. You don't just automatically know things like reading, speech, and how to cast complicated spells and enter the fade consciously. The darkspawn emessaries basically just use magic very crudely. But the Architect knows numerous things. Things you have to be taught. he's not a part of the darkspawn hive-mind so he cant be told things by the archdemons and learn something because all of them know it.

Another hint that the Architect is more than a normal darkspawn is the fact that he can send his mind/spirit into the fade like a normal person. Darkspawn don't have souls or single minds so going into the fade is logically impossible for them.(The first was a different story because he had been sent in physically and ended up being a blood sacrifice while inside). Archie first contacted Remille through the fade after all. And he gave Genevive her visions through her dreams, implying he has the powers of a Tevinter Somniari, aka a Dreamer.

Also the whole black fire spell that he killed Genevive with screams Amaterasu from Naruto. Just sayin.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 06 août 2011 - 02:29 .

[Rifneno]

I'm still sketchy on the Blackmarsh being physical rather than spiritual Fade entrance. I guess it makes some sense for The First being there... but considering what the Imperium had to do to enter the Fade, it seems way too much for the Mother to just hand over to The First in a little trinket and say "here, use this on the enemy."

[Ulicus]

Rifneno wrote...

I'm still sketchy on the Blackmarsh being physical rather than spiritual Fade entrance. I guess it makes some sense for The First being there... but considering what the Imperium had to do to enter the Fade, it seems way too much for the Mother to just hand over to The First in a little trinket and say "here, use this on the enemy."

I'm inclined to agree... though if it's specifically something to do with the darkspawn taint, it could be justified.

The ancient Magisters (supposedly) brought the taint back with them, after all.

[WhiteKnyght]

Rifneno wrote...

I'm still sketchy on the Blackmarsh being physical rather than spiritual Fade entrance. I guess it makes some sense for The First being there... but considering what the Imperium had to do to enter the Fade, it seems way too much for the Mother to just hand over to The First in a little trinket and say "here, use this on the enemy."

Well the Mother's magic is powered by the Taint, not blood and lyrium. The taint is probably much more potent than blood.

[phaonica]

I'm wondering if it isn't Corypheus who is lying, not the Architect.

A codex in Legacy says:

"I found records dating back to 1004 TE, the wake of the First Blight.
Early Wardens discovered that some darkspawn could think and speak and
commanded portions of the horde even after the Archdemon's death. A few
could wield magic with the skill of a Tevinter magister, and the Wardens
greatly feared them.
It was here, in the Vimmark Mountains, that Warden Sashamiri set
her trap to capture and study the greatest of these creatures, the one
whom they called Corypheus."

This seems to imply that the wardens captured Corypheus, whom they didn't think was a magister, but rather a darkspawn similar to a magister. In all the records that Janeka came across, did Corypheus never claim to be a magister to those Wardens?

Modifié par phaonica, 06 août 2011 - 07:43 .

[WhiteKnyght]

phaonica wrote...

I'm wondering if it isn't Corypheus who is lying, not the Architect.

A codex in Legacy says:

"I found records dating back to 1004 TE, the wake of the First Blight.
Early Wardens discovered that some darkspawn could think and speak and
commanded portions of the horde even after the Archdemon's death. A few
could wield magic with the skill of a Tevinter magister, and the Wardens
greatly feared them.
It was here, in the Vimmark Mountains, that Warden Sashamiri set
her trap to capture and study the greatest of these creatures, the one
whom they called Corypheus."

This seems to imply that the wardens captured Corypheus, whom they didn't think was a magister, but rather a darkspawn similar to a magister. In all the records that Janeka came across, did Corypheus never claim to be a magister to those Wardens?

Anders is a Warden and was a big skeptic of Corypheus himself. But the moment he saw the amulet belonging to magisters that formed a sect of Dumat Worshippers it convinced him.

Perhaps the ancient Wardens just didn't believe him or didn't care.

[phaonica]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Anders is a Warden and was a big skeptic of Corypheus himself. But the moment he saw the amulet belonging to magisters that formed a sect of Dumat Worshippers it convinced him.

Perhaps the ancient Wardens just didn't believe him or didn't care.

Ah I forgot about the amulet.

I was just thinking that the wardens seemed to refer to those darkspawn as using magic like
magisters, but never saying they seemed to be the ghouls of magisters. And I suppose there was something like 200 years between the First Blight's beginning and end, so maybe the Wardens then wouldn't have recognized any of the magisters that breached the Black City.

[Sepewrath]

The Grey Nayr wrote...
Thats the thing though. You don't just automatically know things like reading, speech, and how to cast complicated spells and enter the fade consciously. The darkspawn emessaries basically just use magic very crudely. But the Architect knows numerous things. Things you have to be taught. he's not a part of the darkspawn hive-mind so he cant be told things by the archdemons and learn something because all of them know it.

Another hint that the Architect is more than a normal darkspawn is the fact that he can send his mind/spirit into the fade like a normal person. Darkspawn don't have souls or single minds so going into the fade is logically impossible for them.(The first was a different story because he had been sent in physically and ended up being a blood sacrifice while inside). Archie first contacted Remille through the fade after all. And he gave Genevive her visions through her dreams, implying he has the powers of a Tevinter Somniari, aka a Dreamer.

Also the whole black fire spell that he killed Genevive with screams Amaterasu from Naruto. Just sayin.

Well the guy was alive for a thousand years, you can just pick things up. That is how humans learn, they just pick things up,  I would imagine an intelligent Darkspawn could do the same. Once you have basic knowledge, you can always expand on it and figure out its max capabilities, that is the basis of technology, magic is just magic technology lol, so again, I would assume it works the same. When it comes to the Fade, him being born able to think idependently, able to use magic beyond crude manipulation, could allow him to access the Fade.

Yeah he's not a normal Darkspawn, I wouldn't say Hurlock, Genlock, Architect all the same sentence but just because he's strong, doesn't mean that he's not a Darkspawn. Think about it, when you read that codex entry about how the intelligent Darkspawn, it makes it sound like its possible that some of these intellient Darkspawn, aren't even mages. If that is the case, it would only increase the chances that the Architect is a Darkspawn.