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[whykikyouwhy]

The Architect, if indeed a magister, may have had alterior plans all along - perhaps he wanted to harness the power of the old gods for science.

Completely wild tangtial thought (but that's what I do) - what if the Architect is not truly himself? What if a magister did some fancy possession/transfer jump with someone like Avernus (a mage/scientist/etc)? So the Architect only remembers waking up in his new twisted body and knows he is different - his vessel responds to the calling, etc. Meanwhile, the magister essense that inhabited that body is....somewhere else.

This is the stuff that flits through my brain when I'm not eating cheese or drinking wine (or maybe the latter is the direct cause).

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

He's very egalitarian for a magister, then, getting all of his servants to think for themselves instead of simply commanding an army of mindless slaves.

Having had a thousand years or two to ponder his past mistakes, maybe he's gotten a tighter grasp on ethics.

*looks back at a copy of The Calling* ... Maybe not. 

[MrProliferation]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So the question now would be "what erased all of the Architect's memories of being human?"

Nothing.  He lied.

With good reason imo. Keeping that information from the Warden increases the likelihood of the Warden agreeing to help the Architect.

There's a lot to support that. After all, the Architect doesn't tell the Warden that he caused the most recent Blight. The Mother does that, which he thin confesses to. There's also a hint in Nathaniel's quest that the Architect lied again about the section of the Deep Roads heading to the Primeval Thaig being quiet. I think there's clearly a lot that the Architect is not telling you. That he's a Magister like Corypheus is a possibility. And what does he say when you ask him how he was awakened? Doesn't he say something vague like "I have always been this way?" or "I was born this way?"

Isn't that a non-answer when you think about it? If he was a corrupted magister he would've always been that way, able to talk and such. Nevertheless, I wonder if DA3 or even future DLC is setting up a potential conflict between Corypheus and the Architect. If you spared the Architect, he can help you in unsavory ways against Corypheus. After all, Corypheus obeys and amplifies the Call of the Old Gods, and the Architect wants to sever it. Perhaps that's the Architect's secret act of atonement. If he obeyed the Old Gods like Corypheus, then realized that they were wrong or that they were all deceived, he would set out trying to silence them. The fact that Corypheus can control Wardens AND Darkspawn is even more chilling. The Architect and his research may be the only potential route to blocking Corypheus' abilities. 

If you killed the Architect, well, good luck. It might be an issue like what ME3 is shaping up to be. Gassed the Rachni queen? Well, looks like you're going to be an ally short when you have to fight off the Reapers.  

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

He's very egalitarian for a magister, then, getting all of his servants to think for themselves instead of simply commanding an army of mindless slaves.

Having had a thousand years or two to ponder his past mistakes, maybe he's gotten a tighter grasp on ethics.

*looks back at a copy of The Calling* ... Maybe not. 

I doubt he wants to ghoulify everyone these days. I think he's cast that aside. If he really was going to do that, don't you think we would've seen notes in his lair saying as much?

He's probably like Hugh from Star Trek (I also think Sten is like Hugh). He possibly learned from his time in The Calling that there will always be resistance against that plan, and that there was nothing he could do to stop it. So he abandoned it to find another plan that would still allow for humanity and Darkspawn to live in peace, without the need for bloodshed.

[Saberchic]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

He's very egalitarian for a magister, then, getting all of his servants to think for themselves instead of simply commanding an army of mindless slaves.

Having had a thousand years or two to ponder his past mistakes, maybe he's gotten a tighter grasp on ethics.

*looks back at a copy of The Calling* ... Maybe not. 

I doubt he wants to ghoulify everyone these days. I think he's cast that aside. If he really was going to do that, don't you think we would've seen notes in his lair saying as much?


He's probably like Hugh from Star Trek (I also think Sten is like Hugh). He possibly learned from his time in The Calling that there will always be resistance against that plan, and that there was nothing he could do to stop it. So he abandoned it to find another plan that would still allow for humanity and Darkspawn to live in peace, without the need for bloodshed.

That's a lot of specultaion. Until I see proof that he's changed his mind, I'd agree with Rifneno on this. Besides, the Architect doesn't seem to think the same way we do. What we might think of as the next "logical" leap for him might not even occur to him. 

[TEWR]

MrProliferation wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So the question now would be "what erased all of the Architect's memories of being human?"

Nothing.  He lied.

With good reason imo. Keeping that information from the Warden increases the likelihood of the Warden agreeing to help the Architect.

There's a lot to support that. After all, the Architect doesn't tell the Warden that he caused the most recent Blight. The Mother does that, which he thin confesses to. There's also a hint in Nathaniel's quest that the Architect lied again about the section of the Deep Roads heading to the Primeval Thaig being quiet. I think there's clearly a lot that the Architect is not telling you. That he's a Magister like Corypheus is a possibility. And what does he say when you ask him how he was awakened? Doesn't he say something vague like "I have always been this way?" or "I was born this way?"

Isn't that a non-answer when you think about it? If he was a corrupted magister he would've always been that way, able to talk and such. Nevertheless, I wonder if DA3 or even future DLC is setting up a potential conflict between Corypheus and the Architect. If you spared the Architect, he can help you in unsavory ways against Corypheus. After all, Corypheus obeys and amplifies the Call of the Old Gods, and the Architect wants to sever it. Perhaps that's the Architect's secret act of atonement. If he obeyed the Old Gods like Corypheus, then realized that they were wrong or that they were all deceived, he would set out trying to silence them. The fact that Corypheus can control Wardens AND Darkspawn is even more chilling. The Architect and his research may be the only potential route to blocking Corypheus' abilities. 

If you killed the Architect, well, good luck. It might be an issue like what ME3 is shaping up to be. Gassed the Rachni queen? Well, looks like you're going to be an ally short when you have to fight off the Reapers.  

I don't know about the Primeval Thaig's Darkspawn being a lie (incidentally the cutscene where Nathaniel senses them is the only time where they run like normal).

I like to think that the Architect focused his efforts on the Darkspawn in Ferelden first, which may have taken years, and then started to move up (since you don't fight many Darkspawn at all in DA2's base game). Maybe he thought he got them all, and then others moved in.

I'm grasping at straws here, but I don't think the Architect should be made to be an eternal villain by Bioware (though I'm in no position to argue, since it is their game).

[Xilizhra]

I suspect that the Architect bodyhopped to safety if "killed" in Awakening, like Corypheus almost certainly does in Legacy.

[LobselVith8]

rpgfan321 wrote...

They look awfully similar....

That's because the two are based on the build of the Arcane Horror.

MrProliferation wrote...

a lot to support that. After all, the Architect doesn't tell the Warden that he caused the most recent Blight. The Mother does that, which he thin confesses to. There's also a hint in Nathaniel's quest that the Architect lied again about the section of the Deep Roads heading to the Primeval Thaig being quiet. I think there's clearly a lot that the Architect is not telling you. That he's a Magister like Corypheus is a possibility. And what does he say when you ask him how he was awakened? Doesn't he say something vague like "I have always been this way?" or "I was born this way?" 

Perhaps the Architect lied again, but Nathaniel makes note of allies that he remains vague about even if he acknowledges that the Architect was killed by The Warden.

[TEWR]

Saberchic wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

He's very egalitarian for a magister, then, getting all of his servants to think for themselves instead of simply commanding an army of mindless slaves.

Having had a thousand years or two to ponder his past mistakes, maybe he's gotten a tighter grasp on ethics.

*looks back at a copy of The Calling* ... Maybe not. 

I doubt he wants to ghoulify everyone these days. I think he's cast that aside. If he really was going to do that, don't you think we would've seen notes in his lair saying as much?


He's probably like Hugh from Star Trek (I also think Sten is like Hugh). He possibly learned from his time in The Calling that there will always be resistance against that plan, and that there was nothing he could do to stop it. So he abandoned it to find another plan that would still allow for humanity and Darkspawn to live in peace, without the need for bloodshed.

That's a lot of specultaion. Until I see proof that he's changed his mind, I'd agree with Rifneno on this. Besides, the Architect doesn't seem to think the same way we do. What we might think of as the next "logical" leap for him might not even occur to him. 

Not really. Bergan (Bregan?) fought against the Architect when Genevieve was killed which puzzled him IIRC, and the Architect tells Utha that violence won't solve anything. He also believes that the Grey Wardens are the key to peace, and he's right. They allow for sentience.

You're free to disagree of course, as we don't know what the devs have in mind.

I like to think though that Corypheus will head towards Tevinter and gather a Darkspawn army and launch a pseudo-Blight, and that the Architect's survival will be key. If you let him live, then he and his Disciples will assist humanity against Corypheus and the Architect will do research into the nature of Corypheus, the taint, the Black City, and whatever else.

If you killed him, you may still have the aid of the Disciples (as they assist the Grey Wardens in DA2 even if he's been killed), but you lose out on a powerful ally.

[TEWR]

Xilizhra wrote...

I suspect that the Architect bodyhopped to safety if "killed" in Awakening, like Corypheus almost certainly does in Legacy.

Possibly to Utha (despite her also fighting the Warden), or even to a Darkspawn in the area.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I doubt he wants to ghoulify everyone these days. I think he's cast that aside. If he really was going to do that, don't you think we would've seen notes in his lair saying as much?

No. Seranni, Velanna's sister is the one who lets the Warden out of the cell. At the end Seranni is revealed to be under the Architect's control like Utha. Which means she let the Warden out at the Architect's behest. Whatever is seen isn't something he wants to hide.

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

If you killed him, you may still have the aid of the Disciples (as they assist the Grey Wardens in DA2 even if he's been killed), but you lose out on a powerful ally.

It seemed to me that a good amount of his awakened darkspawn weren't that grateful or co-opreative.Thus it seems to me they're as likely to join Corpheys in your scenario.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 17 août 2011 - 04:00 .

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I doubt he wants to ghoulify everyone these days. I think he's cast that aside. If he really was going to do that, don't you think we would've seen notes in his lair saying as much?

No. Seranni, Velanna's sister is the one who lets the Warden out of the cell. At the end Seranni is revealed to be under the Architect's control like Utha. Which means she let the Warden out at the Architect's behest. Whatever is seen isn't something he wants to hide.

Considering he was upset that the Warden escaped when you see him again in the Dragonbone Wastes, I doubt it was his idea for him to escape.

Utha and Seranni are able to act on their own, where Utha wants to immediately kill the Warden, is upset after the Silverite Mine incident, etc.

Now, I haven't read the Calling so I don't know much about Utha in there, but from the wiki Bregan isn't under the Architect's control either.

[TEWR]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

If you killed him, you may still have the aid of the Disciples (as they assist the Grey Wardens in DA2 even if he's been killed), but you lose out on a powerful ally.

It seemed to me that a good amount of his awakened darkspawn weren't that grateful or co-opreative. It seems to me they're as likely to join Corpheys in your scenario.

The epilogue for Awakening indicates that they show no malice towards the Grey Wardens, and there's been nothing yet to outright contradict it, so at this point it seems to still be canon.


If he is killed by the Warden, his disciples eventually make their way to the Deep Roads with their brethren in order to escape. However, they show no inclination towards vengeance on the Grey Warden who killed their savior.

The only difference is that they don't know much about the Architect's Joining ritual, so most Darkspawn are still mindless.

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

If you killed him, you may still have the aid of the Disciples (as they assist the Grey Wardens in DA2 even if he's been killed), but you lose out on a powerful ally.

It seemed to me that a good amount of his awakened darkspawn weren't that grateful or co-opreative. It seems to me they're as likely to join Corpheys in your scenario.

The epilogue for Awakening indicates that they show no malice towards the Grey Wardens, and there's been nothing yet to outright contradict it, so at this point it seems to still be canon.


If he is killed by the Warden, his disciples eventually make their way to the Deep Roads with their brethren in order to escape. However, they show no inclination towards vengeance on the Grey Warden who killed their savior.

The only difference is that they don't know much about the Architect's Joining ritual, so most Darkspawn are still mindless.

That was his disciples, not the ones I was talking about. I was talking about those awakened darkspawn that joined the mother.

[TEWR]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

If you killed him, you may still have the aid of the Disciples (as they assist the Grey Wardens in DA2 even if he's been killed), but you lose out on a powerful ally.

It seemed to me that a good amount of his awakened darkspawn weren't that grateful or co-opreative. It seems to me they're as likely to join Corpheys in your scenario.

The epilogue for Awakening indicates that they show no malice towards the Grey Wardens, and there's been nothing yet to outright contradict it, so at this point it seems to still be canon.


If he is killed by the Warden, his disciples eventually make their way to the Deep Roads with their brethren in order to escape. However, they show no inclination towards vengeance on the Grey Warden who killed their savior.

The only difference is that they don't know much about the Architect's Joining ritual, so most Darkspawn are still mindless.

That was his disciples, not the ones I was talking about. I was talking about those awakened darkspawn that joined the mother.

you're saying that some Disciples will defect, which seems likely.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 août 2011 - 04:25 .

[Urzon]

I like to think though that Corypheus will head towards Tevinter and gather a Darkspawn army and launch a pseudo-Blight, and that the Architect's survival will be key. If you let him live, then he and his Disciples will assist humanity against Corypheus and the Architect will do research into the nature of Corypheus, the taint, the Black City, and whatever else.

I'm not sure about leading a darkspawn army, but i could easily see Cory going to Tevinter. After that though, it depends strongly on his motives. Did he see the taking of the Black City a betrayal on Dumat's part? What happened to the other magisters? Why is there a Chantry in the capital? Did a thousand plus years really pass?

It could any number of ways, but i can easily see him going and taking over Tevinter. Either him killing all the magisters one by one, or simply  taking over the body of the Archon.

On a side note. For a magister of Ancient Tevinter, how much blood magic did Cory use during the boss fight? I saw him throw around elemental and spirit magic like candy at a parade. I didn't see much blood magic though.

Modifié par Urzon, 17 août 2011 - 05:16 .

[Neminea]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Like I said in my post. It's been hinted that wardens do indeed turn into darkspawn during their calling but not fully proven in the game, we've never actually seen this fully happen to a warden. Only told this in the books. And yes the Hurlocks were once humans. The elves shrieks, and the genlocks the dwarvens, the Qunari into Orges.

Not so much, they broodmothers were, they came from them. (according to the broodmother codex in DA:O