190 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

"Elves are ugly, therefor I shall post pictures of the worst looking elves to prove my point" is such a silly argument.

[TEWR]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Serpieri, two of your pics are furniture elves, which hold no merit to the actual design itself.

Second, that pic of Merrill doesn't do Merrill justice, as having a long neck is not a bad thing. Bioware just did that scene so poorly that it looks horrible.

I also don't think Jethann is that bad looking, but blue eyes and bright ginger hair doesn't really mesh well together

Third, here are the beautiful elves in the game:

It holds merit it shows poor quality -  I can also post a lot more like all the Donkey Faced ones.

The pic does do Merril justice - again it shows how poor it is.

.

What Filament said regarding furniture humans

No, it doesn't. I have a long neck and a very slender build. That is not a flaw with my body structure. It's how Bioware made that cutscene that is the flaw.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 juillet 2011 - 09:01 .

[element eater]

crusadeonacid wrote...

The random shirtless elves around Kirkwall always make me think of the creepy loner guy in Ocarina of Time. They look exactly alike. It is very odd.

thank you!!!
thats one thing i always thought:happy:

[vallore]

bleetman wrote...

vallore wrote...

They are not supposed to be a different species

I was under the impression that they were, unless racial difference within the same species can generate immortality.

Indeed, but half-elves pose a serious problem to that. few different species can breed between them, and those who do are very, very close.

I don't mind their redesign so much, but I do wish they'd put more effort into their faces. It's not that there aren't any good looking (and I don't use 'good looking'  to necessarily mean 'attractive') elves, or elves that can be made to look good. There's seemingly a lot of victims of 'we didn't have very long to put this game together' syndrome out there, is all.

I agree that the faces are the worse; to me most of them are right into the uncanny valley, their abnormal bodies only increase it. As I said, disturbing.

Modifié par vallore, 31 juillet 2011 - 09:07 .

[AtreiyaN7]

While I don't like all the new elves and am not overly fond of the redesign, it's a legitimate attempt to make them distinctive as something more than short humans. They're not all horrible, but it's a bit hit or miss as far as individual characters go; and no, I don't think that judging them by those low-quality characters meant to fill in the crowds is a fair comparison. It's quite obvious which ones are fillers and which ones are not.

[TEWR]

Indeed, but half-elves pose a serious problem to that. few different species can breed between them, and those who do are very, very close.

There are no "half-elves". If an Elf and a Human make a child, that child is human. He may appear more elf-like, but he is still a human. This is the lore Bioware has given.

[vallore]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ugly to you perhaps. But your opinion on beauty does not mean that they are indeed ugly. I find them beautiful in their new appearance.

As the saying goes: “beauty, (or in his case ugliness), is in the eyes of the beholder;” it is necessarily an opinion.


Still, I would like to point a interesting fact: Bioware felt necessarily to portrait the two elven companions having a humanized appearance in relation to most of  the rest. The question is why...

and just to clarify, an elf and a human makes a human child. The elf blood may flow through their veins, and they may look more elf-like, but they are still human. There are no half-elves.

It's actually a lot like the Branded in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and its sequel Radiant Dawn. There are humans (beorc) and laguz (human-esque people who can shift into animal form). When a Laguz mates with a Beorc, the child is in appearance a human. But the Laguz blood flows through their veins and one day a brand surfaces on them.

As they carry blood of both species, this affects them differently. While they may appear human, they age more slowly than humans do. The could live for many decades, and you might not even tell that they have done so because they appear 20-30.

Sorry, but the problem remains – worse - what you say even seems to increase it:

It reduces being an elf to a recessive human trait, much like having blue eyes
or blond hair. Since it is not distinct from a Human, it means it is no longer even possible to consider it something like a mule.

As for the example you gave, it is interesting, I never played that game, butit suggests that if the shapeshifters mate in a given form, then most of their genetic code is from the species whose form they adopted, if so, an altogether unrelated problem.

[Serpieri Nei]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Serpieri, two of your pics are furniture elves, which hold no merit to the actual design itself.

Second, that pic of Merrill doesn't do Merrill justice, as having a long neck is not a bad thing. Bioware just did that scene so poorly that it looks horrible.

I also don't think Jethann is that bad looking, but blue eyes and bright ginger hair doesn't really mesh well together

Third, here are the beautiful elves in the game:

It holds merit it shows poor quality -  I can also post a lot more like all the Donkey Faced ones.

The pic does do Merril justice - again it shows how poor it is.

.

What Filament said regarding furniture humans

No, it doesn't. I have a long neck and a very slender build. That is not a flaw with my body structure. It's how Bioware made that cutscene that is the flaw.

I made no mention about your body structure. I stated how poor the quality was.

[Atakuma]

vallore wrote...

I agree that the faces are the worse; to me most of them are right into the uncanny valley, their abnormal bodies only increase it. As I said, disturbing.

DA2 elves aren't human enough to be in the uncanny valley, you just think they look wierd.

[Blastback]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Indeed, but half-elves pose a serious problem to that. few different species can breed between them, and those who do are very, very close.

There are no "half-elves". If an Elf and a Human make a child, that child is human. He may appear more elf-like, but he is still a human. This is the lore Bioware has given.

Has it ever been said one way or another if the "half elves" are reproductivly viable?  Because if they are, then that could be an argument for humans and elves having some common ancestory. 

Or a wizard did it, who knows.

[Serpieri Nei]

Dave of Canada wrote...

"Elves are ugly, therefor I shall post pictures of the worst looking elves to prove my point" is such a silly argument.

"Elves are pretty, therefor I shall post pictures of the best looking elves to prove my point" is such a silly argument"

You should really learn to look at things from both sides.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 31 juillet 2011 - 09:31 .

[vallore]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Indeed, but half-elves pose a serious problem to that. few different species can breed between them, and those who do are very, very close.

There are no "half-elves". If an Elf and a Human make a child, that child is human. He may appear more elf-like, but he is still a human. This is the lore Bioware has given.

Sory, I hadn’t address that issue; I forgot it.

As I use it an half-elf is, necessarily the offspring of a mixed elf-Human union, regardless of having  “special powers” or not, regardless  of  looking different or not. In that I’m in good company, as that was apparently the case of Tolkien’s half-elves, with the exception of the children of Earendil, but that is another tale.

[kirkonacid]

element eater wrote...

crusadeonacid wrote...

The random shirtless elves around Kirkwall always make me think of the creepy loner guy in Ocarina of Time. They look exactly alike. It is very odd.

thank you!!!
thats one thing i always thought:happy:

I'm glad someone agrees with me. 

[vallore]

Atakuma wrote...

vallore wrote...

I agree that the faces are the worse; to me most of them are right into the uncanny valley, their abnormal bodies only increase it. As I said, disturbing.

DA2 elves aren't human enough to be in the uncanny valley, you just think they look wierd.

More than wierd, disturbing. And trust me, for me, most of that lot are just there.

[TEWR]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

I made no mention about your body structure. I stated how poor the quality was.

the quality of the design itself or the furniture elves? The design itself is their body structure and is mine for the most part (I don't have pointy ears or the elven eyes or a nasal bridge that extends into my forehead. At least I'm fairly sure I don't have the latter ). While the furniture elves are not designed well enough to properly use them as a means to gauge the new design.

Using elves like Fenarel or Merrill allows for more of a method to talk about the design than using furniture elves. They are unfortunate to look at, but they do not allow valid criticisms to be made as they were not designed well enough in regards to the new design.

Sorry, but the problem remains – worse - what you say even seems to increase it:

It reduces being an elf to a recessive human trait, much like having blue eyes
or blond hair. Since it is not distinct from a Human, it means it is no longer even possible to consider it something like a mule.

As for the example you gave, it is interesting, I never played that game, butit suggests that if the shapeshifters mate in a given form, then most of their genetic code is from the species whose form they adopted, if so, an altogether unrelated problem.

There's a lot more to the Laguz-Beorc relationship then what I gave. What I gave was just a quick summary. I recommend going to their wiki if you want to read more about it:

http://fireemblem.wi...om/wiki/Branded

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Laguz

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Beorc

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 juillet 2011 - 10:02 .

[TEWR]

Blastback wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Indeed, but half-elves pose a serious problem to that. few different species can breed between them, and those who do are very, very close.

There are no "half-elves". If an Elf and a Human make a child, that child is human. He may appear more elf-like, but he is still a human. This is the lore Bioware has given.

Has it ever been said one way or another if the "half elves" are reproductivly viable?  Because if they are, then that could be an argument for humans and elves having some common ancestory. 

Or a wizard did it, who knows.

It's definitely possible I would think.

[Dave of Canada]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

"Elves are pretty, therefor I shall post pictures of the best looking elves to prove my point" is such a silly argument"

You should really learn to look at things from both sides.

I do. I see people linking pictures of some better looking elves and saying the design isn't a total failure as you seem to make it out to be. You can't judge a design from only it's worse or it's best, you have to judge them all.

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

I must concurrant juice with TEWR on the topic of default!Merrill vs custom!Merrill, I'm afraid.

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concurrant juice?

[Hel]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Second, that pic of Merrill doesn't do Merrill justice, as having a long neck is not a bad thing. Bioware just did that scene so poorly that it looks horrible.

The pic does do Merril justice - again it shows how poor it is.

No, it doesn't do her justice, but I agree that it shows how poor the picture or pose itself is. The same thing happened with Morrigan's oddly shaped neck in that one cutscene with her at the end of Origins, that cutscene didn't do her justice either.

Both Merril's and Morrigan's cutscenes looked bizar because the models' skeletons couldn't cope with the poses they were subjected to. I'm sure they could improve this for both instances, but it would require some work in the animation and potentially rigging department to achieve a more natural look.

Modifié par Helekanalaith, 31 juillet 2011 - 09:51 .

[Atakuma]

The worst thing about the new design, is that it makes them look incredibly weak. They look like what would happen if humans evolved from chipmunks, just too soft and cute to take seriously.

Modifié par Atakuma, 31 juillet 2011 - 09:48 .

[TEWR]

@Atakuma: while they may look weak, they are more than likely really strong. With my body structure, I've been told that I don't look all that strong. But I am stronger than I look (which is true for a lot of people).

The heaviest thing in my house that isn't so big that two people are required to move it is my dog, who weighs 100 lbs. And I've lifted him up into my truck before.

he's a squirmy b*stard that never cooperates though.

[Serpieri Nei]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

I made no mention about your body structure. I stated how poor the quality was.

the quality of the design itself or the furniture elves? The design itself is their body structure and is mine. While the furniture elves are not designed well enough to properly use them as a means to gauge the new design.

Using elves like Fenarel or Merrill allows for more of a method to talk about the design than using furniture elves. They are unfortunate to look at, but they do not allow valid criticisms to be made as they were not designed well enough in regards to the new design.

As I stated previously - the problem I see with the elves is two fold - the new art direction - and the poor quality that was put into the production. All models in the game provide valid criticisms that Bioware needs to be made aware of. Or can someone point out to me the furniture models located in Origins and Mass effect?

[Atakuma]

@TEWR

I'm not saying they aren't strong I just wish their design reflected that strength. I think Fenris was the only one that looked like he wouldn't get blown away by a strong breeze.

Modifié par Atakuma, 31 juillet 2011 - 10:04 .

[TEWR]

well, the same could be said of humans in our world. As I said, genetics and body structure plays a part in how well a person looks in regards to strength but doesn't accurately portray how strong they really are.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing more elves that look like they are strong. The Dalish elves looked strong.

While I'm on the topic of the Dalish, I want to meet Keeper Gisharel of the Ralaferin clan.