190 réponses à ce sujet

[Serpieri Nei]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

"Elves are pretty, therefor I shall post pictures of the best looking elves to prove my point" is such a silly argument"

You should really learn to look at things from both sides.

I do. I see people linking pictures of some better looking elves and saying the design isn't a total failure as you seem to make it out to be. You can't judge a design from only it's worse or it's best, you have to judge them all.

"Such a silly argument"

If you find the posting of the bad elves to be silly and don't find the posting of those that you find alright are not silly. Then its clear, you aren't seeing things from both sides.

What this shows is that the problem either lies with the art direction and/or the use of poor/low quality models.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 31 juillet 2011 - 10:20 .

[kingjezza]

Call me old fashioned but when I think of Elves I think of eloquent and beautiful creatures, the Elves in DA2 are absolutely hideous, the people who find them attractive are the same people who find the Navi attractive or fancy those bumpy headed aliens in Star Trek over humans.

Just make the Elves good looking.

[TEWR]

I think what Dave is saying is that with the combined posting of the good and bad elves, that the design can now be judged properly.

You only posted the bad elves. I posted the good elves as a counterpoint so a proper judgement could be made.

Of course, I may have gotten Dave's comment all wrong. I'm starting to fall asleep right now.

[Alexander1136]

Masako52 wrote...

Wrong. They look amazing. NEVER CHANGE, BIOWARE!

Okay, but seriously? DAO's elves were short humans with pointy ears. That's all. There was nothing intimidating about them, or cool, or unique. Seriously, how people can talk up those "elves" is beyond me.

Apparently, the new elves are hit or miss among fans, but I can't help but think that it's partially because of stubborn fans deciding they hate everything different about DA2. Frankly, I think the new elves are captivating. They look exotic and gorgeous most of the time. They look like their own magical species. The new elf design was one of the things I think Bioware did absolutely right in DA2. And I happen to think Fenris looks very much more intimidating than the uber-bland DAO elves. He looks dangerous and fierce, while still being attractive. Merrill looks pretty and otherworldly. Also, they aren't obnoxiously short, you can look at them eye to eye.

I even downloaded a mod to change DAO elf warden to look more like DA2 elves, with the flat nose bridge and big eyes. It kills me that I can't mod every elven NPC that way.

I mean, to each one's own and no one is ever going to agree on every art design choice Bioware makes. That goes without saying. But I really hope they don't change the elves. Giving them a unique look really helped the player immerse into the world, at least, it did for me.

no it makes them look like there from avatar<_<. elves are short and have pointy ears. thats it. feneris looks like a f**.

Modifié par Alexander1136, 31 juillet 2011 - 10:31 .

[Dave of Canada]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Of course, I may have gotten Dave's comment all wrong. I'm starting to fall asleep right now.

You got it.

It's a "silly argument" because you can't argue when not judging it fairly.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 31 juillet 2011 - 10:32 .

[TRSniper4]

The new elven faces are okay to me. It's those ears that I just want to cut off with my over-sized Final Fantasy sword.

[vallore]

Blastback wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Indeed, but half-elves pose a serious problem to that. few different species can breed between them, and those who do are very, very close.

There are no "half-elves". If an Elf and a Human make a child, that child is human. He may appear more elf-like, but he is still a human. This is the lore Bioware has given.

Has it ever been said one way or another if the "half elves" are reproductivly viable?  Because if they are, then that could be an argument for humans and elves having some common ancestory. 

Or a wizard did it, who knows.

Apparently they are not only viable and fully Human...only that that implies Human anscestry from both parents.

Magic? Perhaps, but then either each single birth is the result of a spell directly applied to the specific parents, (is there any indication of that in Fenriel's case, for instance?) or a spell cast over either the entire Humanity or the entire elven people, and viable to all time, (what kind of wizard would do this, or could even do this, and why?)

[elearon1]

I, actually, liked all the racial changes. I expected to hate Qunari the most, but I rather thought they looked cool with the horns and body painting. Mind you, it required that I rethink certain elements of the Dragon Age setting - that being the idea they were trying for a more humancentric, fantasy light, design. But now that I've seen the altered races, I don't think I could ever be satisfied with the originals. (even though I loved my city elf warden) (actually, come to think of it, I think it would have been cool if city elves lookes slightly different ... to suggest they had a lot of human blood in their lineage)

[Goneaviking]

I prefer the newer elves, that differentiate them from humans more. I don't like how all of the elves came out in the final product, but I blame that more on it having a short production time than on it being a bad concept.

For my money I think it's best to differentiate the various races in DA2 and to emphasise that they are infact different species entirely as opposed to fetish minorities. I understand that people have their own preferences, but I find it much easier to reconcile the alien quality of the Dalish in DA2 since they're physically distinct from the main body of people we encounter.

[Serpieri Nei]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think what Dave is saying is that with the combined posting of the good and bad elves, that the design can now be judged properly.

You only posted the bad elves. I posted the good elves as a counterpoint so a proper judgement could be made.

Of course, I may have gotten Dave's comment all wrong. I'm starting to fall asleep right now.

I posted the low quality ones, mid quality, and I even posted an example of where a high quality one suffers from a poor body model. Which has lead me to believe that the issue is not just the new art direction. if I can find the collage that Bio-Age did in that orther thread I'll post it as well or maybe I'll make another series since this topic has been brought up again.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 31 juillet 2011 - 10:51 .

[tmp7704]

Dubya75 wrote...

The elves look anorexic to you only because you are still (for whatever reason) comparing their body types to that of humans. Doing this is silly because they are not human at all.

Hey, if people can say DAO elves are "humans with pointy ears" and that's supposed to be valid strike against the older design then it's perfectly fair to compare DA2 elves to humans as well. What's good for the goose etc.

[vallore]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Of course, I may have gotten Dave's comment all wrong. I'm starting to fall asleep right now.

You got it.

It's a "silly argument" because you can't argue when not judging it fairly.

But what  would be "fair," in this context?

Presenting a few  elves that appear to have been deliberatly humanized as example of the entire people, or a few generic elves that weren't so?

[elearon1]

tmp7704 wrote...
Hey, if people can say DAO elves are "humans with pointy ears" and that's supposed to be valid strike against the older design then it's perfectly fair to compare DA2 elves to humans as well. What's good for the goose etc.

They are just humans with pointy ears, where DA2 elves are not just anorexic humans ... so there is a slight advantage to the first argument.  That said, there is nothing wrong with liking the previous version ... hell, most rpgs portray elves as pointy eared and slightly shorter humans, so it is to be expected.  Personally, I like the fact that they tried to make all the races a little more distinctive in the second game but YMMV.

Modifié par elearon1, 31 juillet 2011 - 10:47 .

[bEVEsthda]

The new elves are absolutely horrible, just as so many other things in DA2.

I kinda want to suggest that the contrary opinion expressed by so many in this thread is yet another sign of a gradual evolvement of these forums. They have gravitated towards the true market EA and Bioware originally perceived for DA2. I experienced exactly the same happen to Spore forums. A lot of people have left, more or less for good.

Unfortunately for Spore, the somewhat more positive mood in the forums didn't result in wonderful sales for Spore galactic Adventures.  ...just saying.

[Hurbster]

I am not a fan of a lot of the art 'redesigns' in this game, elves included.

[elearon1]

bEVEsthda wrote...

The new elves are absolutely horrible, just as so many other things in DA2.

I kinda want to suggest that the contrary opinion expressed by so many in this thread is yet another sign of a gradual evolvement of these forums. They have gravitated towards the true market EA and Bioware originally perceived for DA2.

I sense an insult in that statement, and I don't appreciate it.  A) I have been a member of these forums for a very long time, I have contributing a great deal in conversations over that time.  

I played and enjoyed DA:O, but that doesn't mean I can't like the changes made to the artistic style ... neither does that mean I'm some kind of lesser gamer for appreciating those changes.  Insulting people simple because they do not share your opinion is the worse kind of commentary one can make about themselves.  I appreciate that you may have prefered the previous versions, but that is an issue of artistic taste and hardly a valid reason to insult others.  There are some very famous classical artists whom I appreciate a great deal ... and others I personally find overrated ... art is in the eye of the beholder and no one style is really better than another.  

Modifié par elearon1, 31 juillet 2011 - 11:00 .

[tmp7704]

elearon1 wrote...

They are just humans with pointy ears, where DA2 elves are not just anorexic humans ... so there is a slight advantage to the first argument.

DAO elves -- short humans with pointy ears.
DA2 elves -- thin humans with donkey ears and flat nose bridges.

it is a very slight difference, and it doesn't really address the point -- which was, it's perfectly fair to apply the same methodology to both cases. Consequently, if someone is objecting "you can't say they look like anorectic humans because they aren't humans" then it's equally fair to object "you can' t say they look like short humans because they aren't humans", as well.

[elearon1]

tmp7704 wrote...
... it is a very slight difference, and it doesn't really address the point -- which was, it's perfectly fair to apply the same methodology to both cases.

Fair enough, better to say I liked the change because they didn't just Look like short humans with pointy ears in the second game, but looked like a distinct race of their own.  Same with the Qunari, who - if we're assuming a fantasy setting - look more like their own race than taller, beafier humans, in the second game.  

I liked the looks in DA:O, because I had drawn a more human-centric feel from that setting ... since they gave that up in DA2, I prefer the look they adopted for races in that game. 

[ScotGaymer]

I like the new Qunari and the new Dwarves on the whole.

I do not like the new Elves or the new Darkspawn however.

The Elves I think on he whole look like the entire race has downs syndrome, and they are supposed to sound Welsh and yet half of them sound Irish. It really comes down to the lack of Dev time meant that they had very little time to diversify the elven populace so they dont all look mentally retarded (I dont mean that nastily, they really do) and sound irish.
I mean Merill and Fenris look good inspite of the "new" look; so its shown that its possible for the new Elven look to work.

The new Darkspawn just look silly and comical. I saw someone refer to them as ClownSpawn and the new Genlocks as DonkeyKongSpawn and I must say I quite agree. They went from looking like undead orcs/goblins which were rather scary/ugly/intimidating to just looking silly and comical.

[tmp7704]

elearon1 wrote...

Fair enough, better to say I liked the change because they didn't just Look like short humans with pointy ears in the second game, but looked like a distinct race of their own. 

Personally i must say i don't see another race when it comes to DA2 design... i see this:



and it makes me throw up a little, every single time.

(that's regarding the body type. the facial changes i'm generally ok with because yes, they stray far enough from human features to escape this sort of mental connection)

[bEVEsthda]

elearon1 wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

The new elves are absolutely horrible, just as so many other things in DA2.

I kinda want to suggest that the contrary opinion expressed by so many in this thread is yet another sign of a gradual evolvement of these forums. They have gravitated towards the true market EA and Bioware originally perceived for DA2.

I sense an insult in that statement, and I don't appreciate it.  A) I have been a member of these forums for a very long time, I have contributing a great deal in conversations over that time.  

I played and enjoyed DA:O, but that doesn't mean I can't like the changes made to the artistic style ... neither does that mean I'm some kind of lesser gamer for appreciating those changes.  Insulting people simple because they do not share your opinion is the worse kind of commentary one can make about themselves.  I appreciate that you may have prefered the previous versions, but that is an issue of artistic taste and hardly a valid reason to insult others.  There are some very famous classical artists whom I appreciate a great deal ... and others I personally find overrated ... art is in the eye of the beholder and no one style is really better than another.  

So, would you be more happy with a rephrasing like this? :

bEVEsthda wrote...

The new elves are absolutely horrible, just as so many other things in DA2.

I kinda want to suggest that the contrary opinion expressed by so many in this thread is yet another sign of a gradual evolvement of these forums. They have gravitated towards the part of the market that is more positive to DA2.

 ?  Well, it works for me.

[dragonfire100]

Sweeper1964 wrote...

Why do the elves in DA2 look like anorexic mannaquins? Thier faces are freakish and they are like spider people with huge ears... They may want to look back at the Elves from DAO and fire the art guys from DA2. Fenris is hardly intimidating and yet he's ripping peoples hearts from their chest and Merrill as a romance??? That would be like romancing a giraffe... meh!

I love the new elves its better then humans with pointy ears thats all the DAO elves were.

[TEWR]

except the bodies of the elves have much more weight than that..... creature.

[tmp7704]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

except the bodies of the elves have much more weight than that..... creature.

What makes you say that? The silhouettes are pretty much identical to the picture. The limbs of female elves have the same appearance, and the torso is hidden under the lingerie so you may at best wish they don't look like that, but can't actually tell.

[vallore]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

except the bodies of the elves have much more weight than that..... creature.

Have you tried the Merril romance?

It was....shocking:blink: