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[Wereparrot]

Hitler wanted to annihilate Jews etc. Tim doesn't want to annihilate any species.

Modifié par Wereparrot, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:56 .

[Barquiel]

Wereparrot wrote...

Tim doesn't want to annihilate any species.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

[Wereparrot]

Luc0s wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Hitler wanted to annihilate Jews etc. Tim doesn't want to annihilate any species.

On TIM: Yes, I do think TIM would do ANYTHING for human dominance, INCLUDING annihilating another species when it's necessary.

Which would mark him out as not like Hitler. Executing Jews was not neccessary for German dominance, but if annihilating another species is neccessary then there is quite a difference between unnessary vindictiveness and neccessary action.

Plus, annihilating the reapers is neccessary, for the guaranteed survival of every species. Also, the geth are arguably abominations, so are ripe for annihilation aswell.

[Wereparrot]

Luc0s wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Hitler wanted to annihilate Jews etc. Tim doesn't want to annihilate any species.

On TIM: Yes, I do think TIM would do ANYTHING for human dominance, INCLUDING annihilating another species when it's necessary.

Which would mark him out as not like Hitler. Executing Jews was not neccessary for German dominance, but if annihilating another species is neccessary then there is quite a difference between unnessary vindictiveness and neccessary action.

Plus, annihilating the reapers is neccessary, for the guaranteed survival of every species. Also, the geth are arguably abominations, so are ripe for annihilation aswell.

Learn your history. Hitler did not annihalite the Jews until WW2 started. Originally, he just wanted to to deport the Jews and yes, it he did do that for the interests of Germany. Hitler honestly believed Germany would be better of without the Jews, so he wanted to deport them, not kill them. Killing the Jews only started when WW2 started. When WW2 started, Hitler didn't see any option for deporting the Jews. It would be nearly impossible to continue deporting them because of the war, so he changed plans and changed the working-camps into execution-camps.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not a Hitler sympathiser. I do not agree with ANTYHING he did. I'm merely stating the facts here, the facts that TIM and Hitler aren't so different after all.


But I all said this in a previous post already, so I'm not going to repeat it all again. Lets just stop about Hitler now and focus on TIM.

Yes, annihalating the reapers indeed is neccessary, JOINING them ISN'T. The fact that TIM joins the reapers gives me the impression that he cares more about human dominance than the destruction of the reapers.

To say the geth are abominations and are ready to be annihated is just... insane.... How could you say such a thing after meeting Legion and learning more about the geth? Sorry, but I feel more sympathy for the geth than for the quarians. The QUARIANS should PAY for what they did to the geth, NOT the other way around.

I wasn't actually directly refering to history then, my point was that the Jews were needlessly executed, not what Hitler originally had in mind; but your right, this thread should move on. Although having said that, my WW2-era history is shamefully rusty; the middle ages are more my thing.

And to clarify what I said about the geth: they are machines, and as such are not truly alive; and insofar as they are creations of a single fallible species rather than either a divine being or the product of evolution; in either case they are abominations. They aren't 'natural'.

[Ieldra]

DJRackham wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

**snipped unrelated response**

@DJRackham:
How, then, did he manage to not become a Husk in 30 years? Possibly there is some Reaper tech in him, but I don't think he's indoctrinated. That's all but confirmed by Mac Walters' interview, btw..

Huskification  is NOT indoctronation. Two different processes are involved. Becoming a husk involves getting impaled on Dragon's Teeth. Indoctrination is initiated  by simply being in close proximity to a Reaper or Reaper artifacts.

Simple answer... Your assumptions are incorrect (unless Bioware is actively engaged in a campaign of disinformation).

Indoctrination is an irreversible process and ends with the mind destroyed. That's what I wanted to express. How did TIM manage to avoid that, that's what I wanted to ask.

No reason to get all condescending about it.

[DJRackham]

Ieldra2 wrote...


No reason to get all condescending about it.

My apologies. That was not my intent. 

[therussianviking]

Barquiel wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Tim doesn't want to annihilate any species.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

I concur. You can't have dominance unless you are there are no powers capable of threatening you.

[Wereparrot]

therussianviking wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Tim doesn't want to annihilate any species.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

I concur. You can't have dominance unless you are there are no powers capable of threatening you.

But as of yet Tim has shown no such wishes. Shepard would have had a hard time recruiting all those aliens if the said aliens thought this to be the case. Of course, Tim might be hiding his true motives from Shepard and Miranda.

[SandTrout]

Read these:
http://www.definitio...nition/Renegade
http://www.definitio.../paragon&adlt=0

Context! I am obviously speaking about these terms in the context of how they are being used in the game.

[Xeranx]

Seboist wrote...

TIM haters like to invent reasons to hate him, like Conrad Verner says "That's how it goes in the biz".

Actually, not really and further...not all do that.  I out and out don't like him, in-game and meta, so he get's a dirt nap the first chance I'm given to put him to sleep.  The only thing that saves him is a damn good reason.

[_Somebody]

Spare, I liked working for Cerberus over the Alliance. 

[SandTrout]

To be honest, the title 'abomination' displays a deeply emotional response, rather than a rational one. It is a title given to something that you believe should not exist, and therefor must be exterminated.

The rational response is as follows:
The Geth exist as sentient entities, and we cannot prevent that from occurring any more.
The Geth fought back out of a sense of self-preservation when the Quarians attempted to deactivate them.
The Geth committed to a campaign genocide against the Quarians once they gained the upper hand in the war.
The Geth have destroyed every vessel that has ventured beyond the Perseus Veil.
Some Geth have dedicated themselves to a campaign of genocide against all organic species, and devastated the Citadel Fleet in the key battle of that campaign.
Some Geth have expressed and demonstrated willingness to aid us against the Reapers.

The rational conclusion is that the Geth are a potential threat that will probably need to be dealt with once the Reaper threat has ended. Either we arrange some form of a treaty to set the conditions of continued peace, or we pursue a campaign to cripple their military capacity so that they are not a threat for another generation.

[Wereparrot]

Luc0s wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

And to clarify what I said about the geth: they are machines, and as such are not truly alive; and insofar as they are creations of a single fallible species rather than either a divine being or the product of evolution; in either case they are abominations. They aren't 'natural'.

"not natural" =/= abomination

Seriously, there is no real difference between you and a geth except that you're organic and a geth is synthetic.


The geth got created by the quarians.
Humans got created by god or "mother nature" (whatever you believe).

The geth evolved and became who they are through evolution. The geth now are not the same as the first original geth created by the quarians. 
Humans evolved and became who they are through evolution. The humans now are not the same as the first original humans created by mother nature.

The geth became self-aware through evolution. The original geth created by the quarians weren't self-aware.
Humans became self-aware through evolution. The species humans originated from weren't self-aware.

The geth just want to survive and build on their future.
Humans just want to survive and build on their future.



Tell me, how could you call the geth "abominations" while they are so damn similar to us?
The term "abomination" is a really negative term. Further more, you didn't just say the geth are an abomination, you even said they need to be exterminated. That's REALLY negative. Why so much negativity towards a species that's really just the same as us?

The nature of the geth decrees that they must be abominations; as organics are created by natural means and geth are nothing more than corrupted metal. They are not similar: they have no respiratory system and they are not created by supernatural or natural means (whichever you choose to believe in), but are the product of an existant life-form which could not create them after the manner of a divine being or instigate natural evolution, so therefore geth were created with machines themselves. Their 'evolution' is nothing more than the result of pride.

[Repearized Miranda]

JetsoverEverything wrote...

considering how many playthroughs people have....

im pretty sure everyone will do both.

^ This, but wouldn't you mean "saves" as playthroughs would incite "going through the trenches" for no reason if it's just one scene. (ie: You spare him. threatening him. He complies to threat and leaves. or, you kill him, negating a possible double-cross. As we know ReneShep wouldn't put it past him, I hope ParaShep won't either - despite sparing him. Note: Both sheps can do the likewise options)

[Bluko]

Probably will kill him. I mean thanks for reviving me, even if it was really only to further your own selfish plans, but Akuze was kind of F'ed up. Yeah the more I think about it the more likely T.I.M. is going to have to deal with Shepard's Pistol-o-Death. I didn't spare Helena Blake so I really doubt I'll spare T.I.M. unless I can personally escort him to jail.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Wereparrot wrote...

And to clarify what I said about the geth: they are machines, and as such are not truly alive; and insofar as they are creations of a single fallible species rather than either a divine being or the product of evolution; in either case they are abominations. They aren't 'natural'.

Would non-asari biotics qualify as abominations as well, then?

[SandTrout]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

And to clarify what I said about the geth: they are machines, and as such are not truly alive; and insofar as they are creations of a single fallible species rather than either a divine being or the product of evolution; in either case they are abominations. They aren't 'natural'.

Would non-asari biotics qualify as abominations as well, then?

Don't forget that by that, Shepard is an abomination as well, and the Quarians, and Krogan.

[EliDL]

I don't like the Illusive Man (don't understand the charm) but I wouldn't have my shep kill him unless I really had to although, it wouldn't bother me all that much if that was the case.

[Medhia Nox]

I wouldn't bother with TIM until the Reapers were dealt with - then, I would capture him and hand him over to the Alliance.

If he forced me to (by resisting violently) - then yes, I would kill him.

"Being free and ruling Cerberus" is not an option in my playthru

[Ritara]

nah i liked the illusive man i wouldn't kill him, he's got style, now if he was indoctrinated.....nope i would spare him and lock him somewhere, i like his mafia style

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

IDK. But If he lays just ONE finger on Beloved Miri. I'm gonna blow his his brains out stooting many rounds in his head. Then Miri and I crush him with our Biotics, and THEN put his head on a spike.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 29 juillet 2011 - 11:11 .

[BatmanPWNS]

Depends on the offer he gives.

If he knows a way to stop the Reapers I will spare his life. (As long as the plan doesn't involve killing millions or committing genocide)

If his just gonna lecture me and offer nothing then I'll kill him straight away.