149 réponses à ce sujet

[whykikyouwhy]

How far we have traveled from the Golden City!

Regarding who to side with - therein is the dilemma presented by Bioware. Neither choice is without consequence, only *degrees* of consequence, and even that varies from personal perspective. There are innocents in both groups, there are guilty parties in both groups. Meredith is the big bad of them all crying out for desperate times and desperate measures.

I'm not going to make historical comparisons because there is far too much emotion involved in any such example, especially those already mentioned. But I will comment that regardless of either path selected, the only option is to fight. There is no way to stun templars or mages and leave them that way, the game does not allow for sleep to be used so that Hawke can move on to the next room. We, as players, are trapped with needing to shed blood. There is no passive or partially passive stance to take, there is no speech based on bluff or charisma or coercion that will fix anything.

So yes, everyone's canon is different - I respect that. My Hawke took the path that was best for her and my own player conscience. Maybe I missed out on some true role-playing. But that's the gamble here. A single decision had to be made in order to move forward. And that decision was never meant to be light, or less than the other, or easy to distinguish as right. There are implications and consequences to whatever path is chosen.

[Macropodmum]

Maybe we should make a new Golden City speculation thread

[whykikyouwhy]

@Macropodmum - I can barely keep track of the gazillion speculation threads currently active.

[Macropodmum]

I know, I'm trying to stick to just a couple atm, the forums kind of exploded after Legacy's release...

[Augustei]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
If Meredith had been charged
with watching thousands of mages there'd be no way she'd have been able
to control the situation at all.

She didn't lol.

[Rifneno]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
If Meredith had been charged
with watching thousands of mages there'd be no way she'd have been able
to control the situation at all.

She didn't lol.

Haha.  Niiiice.

As to the question of the Golden City, here's a thought... what if it was full of lyrium?  Here's a sniplet of the original lyrium codex: "Mages have additionally been known to suffer physical mutation: The magister lords of the Tevinter Imperium were widely reputed to have been so affected by their years of lyrium use that they could not be recognized by their own kin, nor even as creatures that had once been human."  It would also explain why some ancient dwarven writings claim they showed up there first.  What if darkspawn are just the result of exposure to incredible amounts of lyrium?

[GavrielKay]

Do we know when Arlathan fell? If had been the Golden City and was turned black by the elves or Magisters, did it happen long enough before the attempt to reach the "Golden City of the Fade" for Corypheus to not recognize it or think it a possibility? He seems convinced that they went to the Fade and the city that was supposed to be Golden was already black. If it was Arlathan rather than the Fade, it would have to be pretty convincing.

I don't believe that Corypheus' words in any way prove that the Magister's corrupted the Golden City though. If anything, he opens up wild possibilities for if the city was ever Golden and if so, what happened to it.

[esper]

Rifneno wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
If Meredith had been charged
with watching thousands of mages there'd be no way she'd have been able
to control the situation at all.

She didn't lol.

Haha.  Niiiice.

As to the question of the Golden City, here's a thought... what if it was full of lyrium?  Here's a sniplet of the original lyrium codex: "Mages have additionally been known to suffer physical mutation: The magister lords of the Tevinter Imperium were widely reputed to have been so affected by their years of lyrium use that they could not be recognized by their own kin, nor even as creatures that had once been human."  It would also explain why some ancient dwarven writings claim they showed up there first.  What if darkspawn are just the result of exposure to incredible amounts of lyrium?

This is exactly what I believe. Lyrium is the one thing that is both in the Deep Road and the Fade. And it is obviosuly very, very dangerous.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
If Meredith had been charged
with watching thousands of mages there'd be no way she'd have been able
to control the situation at all.

She didn't lol.

Except it took 7 years for the situation to spiral out of control and it wan't even beacuse of the circle mages that it did. Anders even says near the end that most the mage underground was destroyed. The reason the situation got as bad as it a did was because of Anders blowing up the Chantry and Meredith's reaction to it.

[esper]

@Jedi Master.
It is out of control way before that. All right in act 1 there are dark rumors about Meridith. In act 2 there is a mage underground that apperently smuggles people out of the gallows, and by act 3 it has gotten so bad that more of the common people than normal - who normally fears mages are against the templars.
I wouldn't call that control with the situation.

[Out to Lunch]

Rifneno wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
If Meredith had been charged
with watching thousands of mages there'd be no way she'd have been able
to control the situation at all.

She didn't lol.

Haha.  Niiiice.

As to the question of the Golden City, here's a thought... what if it was full of lyrium?  Here's a sniplet of the original lyrium codex: "Mages have additionally been known to suffer physical mutation: The magister lords of the Tevinter Imperium were widely reputed to have been so affected by their years of lyrium use that they could not be recognized by their own kin, nor even as creatures that had once been human."  It would also explain why some ancient dwarven writings claim they showed up there first.  What if darkspawn are just the result of exposure to incredible amounts of lyrium?

That's an interesting thought. Could also explain why blood magic as an alternative to lyrium is so popular in the tevinter imperium.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Rifneno wrote...

As to the question of the Golden City, here's a thought... what if it was full of lyrium?  Here's a sniplet of the original lyrium codex: "Mages have additionally been known to suffer physical mutation: The magister lords of the Tevinter Imperium were widely reputed to have been so affected by their years of lyrium use that they could not be recognized by their own kin, nor even as creatures that had once been human."  It would also explain why some ancient dwarven writings claim they showed up there first.  What if darkspawn are just the result of exposure to incredible amounts of lyrium?

Interesting idea, but what's the explanation for the taint then? The Darkspawn and thier corruption have something more to them than just physical deformity. They are all connected through it somehow.

[GavrielKay]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
If Meredith had been charged
with watching thousands of mages there'd be no way she'd have been able
to control the situation at all.

She didn't lol.

Except it took 7 years for the situation to spiral out of control and it wan't even beacuse of the circle mages that it did. Anders even says near the end that most the mage underground was destroyed. The reason the situation got as bad as it a did was because of Anders blowing up the Chantry and Meredith's reaction to it.

We know there were at least hundreds of mages in the Gallows from the codex.  There are probably many hundreds since it is now Kirkwall plus Starkhaven mages.

The situation was bad all along.  Cullen says that the public opinion is against the Templars and he's never seen that before.  Meredith was a bad KC even before she was an insane KC.

The situation got as bad as it did becuase Meredith and Elthina were so unyielding that Anders felt there was no bargaining with them and attacked instead.  I happen to agree that bargaining was never going to succeed, at least not with the leadership in Kirkwall.

Anyway, I like the lyrium idea, but then did the Magisters actually travel anywhere or just wipe out their own humanity in an orgy of blood and lyrium?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

esper wrote...

@Jedi Master.
It is out of control way before that. All right in act 1 there are dark rumors about Meridith. In act 2 there is a mage underground that apperently smuggles people out of the gallows, and by act 3 it has gotten so bad that more of the common people than normal - who normally fears mages are against the templars.
I wouldn't call that control with the situation.

"Dark rumors" don't really qualify as being out of control. And in Act 3 the common folk are afraid of her because she refuses to give up direct rule of Kirkwall and name a new Viscount, not because of anything the mages did. With hte policies she used, I'd think if there were thousands of mages, then she wouldn't have been able to maintain any order at all for all that time.

[esper]

There are more people hiding mages than what I think that is normal given mages reputation. And Cullen also mentioned in act 1 already that templars aren't as welcome anymore as they once were - something I think has to do with Meridith's reputation.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

True. All I was saying was if there were that many mages then I'd expect they'd have rebelled or rioted against her harsh policies long before act 3.

[esper]

Personally I don't think there is a thousand mages. I am leaning towards - around 500-800.

[Tainan7509]

There are just so many unanswered question in this game. I hope DA3 will explain it all at once. And so far from DAO and DA2 and legacy, i think there is something big going on.

[Rifneno]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

True. All I was saying was if there were that many mages then I'd expect they'd have rebelled or rioted against her harsh policies long before act 3.

I wouldn't expect the pasty, Dracula-looking freak I'm trying to save to have a psychotic breakdown and turn himself into demon-corpse monster the size of a dump truck. But sometimes, DA2 is what it is.

[esper]

Rifneno wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

True. All I was saying was if there were that many mages then I'd expect they'd have rebelled or rioted against her harsh policies long before act 3.

I wouldn't expect the pasty, Dracula-looking freak I'm trying to save to have a psychotic breakdown and turn himself into demon-corpse monster the size of a dump truck. But sometimes, DA2 is what it is.

Lol are you talking about Orsino? He is kind of pale.

[Rifneno]

esper wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

True. All I was saying was if there were that many mages then I'd expect they'd have rebelled or rioted against her harsh policies long before act 3.

I wouldn't expect the pasty, Dracula-looking freak I'm trying to save to have a psychotic breakdown and turn himself into demon-corpse monster the size of a dump truck. But sometimes, DA2 is what it is.

Lol are you talking about Orsino? He is kind of pale.

Do you know any other two ton flesh golems?

Oh, and the question earlier in response to my lyrium/darkspawn notion, about where the taint part comes in... I have no idea. It wasn't really a well thought out theory. I've got a bad tooth, and vicodin kind of shuts off the filter in my brain that stops me from rambling every malformed thought in my head. ... Oh look, a bunny!

[esper]

Rifneno wrote...

esper wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

True. All I was saying was if there were that many mages then I'd expect they'd have rebelled or rioted against her harsh policies long before act 3.

I wouldn't expect the pasty, Dracula-looking freak I'm trying to save to have a psychotic breakdown and turn himself into demon-corpse monster the size of a dump truck. But sometimes, DA2 is what it is.

Lol are you talking about Orsino? He is kind of pale.

Do you know any other two ton flesh golems?

Oh, and the question earlier in response to my lyrium/darkspawn notion, about where the taint part comes in... I have no idea. It wasn't really a well thought out theory. I've got a bad tooth, and vicodin kind of shuts off the filter in my brain that stops me from rambling every malformed thought in my head. ... Oh look, a bunny!

I know some in real life that comes close... Just with less arms.

I don't know how the lyrium should cause the taint, but I have yet to see a positive effect of lyrium. It is this creepy growing thing and I feel sorry for my mages that the have to drink it - even if it is processed. Sometimes I think that lyrium is alive. Perhaps demons and spirits are born from that... How are demon and spirit born anyway? I imagined that they were born from the emotions in people's dreams, but...

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I never got the impression there were that many in DOA either. They'd all have to fit in that tower.

[LobselVith8]

esper wrote...

I know some in real life that comes close... Just with less arms.

I don't know how the lyrium should cause the taint, but I have yet to see a positive effect of lyrium. It is this creepy growing thing and I feel sorry for my mages that the have to drink it - even if it is processed. Sometimes I think that lyrium is alive. Perhaps demons and spirits are born from that... How are demon and spirit born anyway? I imagined that they were born from the emotions in people's dreams, but...

Andrastians think that spirits and demons are the Maker's "First Children," predating humanity, but we don't know the truth.

[TEWR]

If they were the Maker's first Children, then Justice and all the other Fade denizens would've known that. They wouldn't have had to look into the dreams of mortals to wonder if there was a Maker when demons supposedly envy mortals for the Maker turning his gaze on them.

And then the demon in the Ser Otto quest said "There is no Maker. There is no Golden City."

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 août 2011 - 06:16 .