131 réponses à ce sujet

[Bullets McDeath]

Whether you love or hate the game, or find yourself on the fence (I rotate between the three on a bi-weekly basis), I would recommend Legacy as a sure-bet, unless you actually feel violated by the thought of playing DA2 again. It's still DA2... just, better. Tons of replay value depending on when you do it and who you take with you, the story was solid, the new encounters were better balanced, and more tactically interesting. Some great (and much tougher)new designs on old enemies.

Along with Shadow Broker, this is a great example of how DLC should be. There's still room for improvement, but Legacy is head and shoulders above any of the Origins DLC (most of which I enjoyed, personally).

[John Epler]

Icinix wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

FieryDove wrote...Why can't the junk be changed to coins? Death to junk/trash loot!  Sigh

It's a staple of the series.

For now. I would not be so sure in the future.

What Mike doesn't mention is that, in the future, the junk loot will glom together, Katamari Damacy style, and be useable as a special attack.

But will that be as awesome as Two Worlds endless stick mergering?

I have no idea what this is, but it sounds delightful.

[Cutlass Jack]

If only staples were a staple of the series. They would be much more fun to shoot at the darkspawn.

[mellifera]

JohnEpler wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
Why can't the junk be changed to coins? Death to junk/trash loot!  Sigh

It's a staple of the series.

For now. I would not be so sure in the future.

What Mike doesn't mention is that, in the future, the junk loot will glom together, Katamari Damacy style, and be useable as a special attack.

I would pay full retail price for Torn Trouser Katamari.

As for the OP, I would say yes, emphatically. It totally pressed all my awesome buttons in all the awesomest ways.

[Brockololly]

Well, hell, screw loot. Lets just have coins explode out of the enemies along side all their vital organs in a cascade of bodily fluids and raw currency.

Modifié par Brockololly, 29 juillet 2011 - 11:54 .

[mellifera]

That would also be awesome.

AWESOME.

[Icinix]

JohnEpler wrote...

Icinix wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
What Mike doesn't mention is that, in the future, the junk loot will glom together, Katamari Damacy style, and be useable as a special attack.

But will that be as awesome as Two Worlds endless stick mergering?

I have no idea what this is, but it sounds delightful.

Indeed! PCPowerPlay (Australians Number 1 gaming mag *free plug /cough*) recently gave it an award Just for that feature.

[goofyomnivore]

It is the best DA DLC by far, but that isn't saying much really. Overall I found Legacy more satisfying than any part of vanilla DA:2. I wouldn't put it in the same tier as LotSB, but it is a quality DLC and worth getting if you have any interest in the DA universe.

For some more presepective; I would rate DA:2 6.5, DA:O 9 and Legacy 8.5 -- I rate LotSB a 9.

[Bullets McDeath]

yukidama wrote...

That would also be awesome.

AWESOME.

And then we have to run around and collect the coins one by one, like in Scott Pilgrim: The Movie. Still running around picking up junk, but much more entertaining.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 29 juillet 2011 - 11:59 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

Then I demand more colorful currency. Let's bring in some green and purple!

[hoorayforicecream]

The thing about the junk that bothered me most wasn't that it was there, but that most of it was practically worthless. I found raw gold, gemstones, and rare books, and none of it was worth more than a handful of silver. The coin must be special for 1 gold sovereign to be worth more than 1 gold bar.

[John Epler]

Brockololly wrote...

Well, hell, screw loot. Lets just have coins explode out of the enemies along side all their vital organs in a cascade of bodily fluids and raw currency.

Brock, I'm sure you're well aware that saying 'Junk loot may not be a staple of the series forever' is not the same as saying 'EVERYONE DROPS COINS AND NOTHING BUT COINS!'. There is plenty of middle ground to tread, and hyperbole does you no credit.

[MorrigansLove]

That would be as awesome as me eviscerating myself with a rusty spoon.

[mellifera]

MorrigansLove wrote...

That would be as awesome as me eviscerating myself with a rusty spoon.

I dunno about you, but it might be awesome for me...

[Yrkoon]

You guys better not even THINK about getting rid of our Stale Biscuits, Torn Trousers, Rusty knives, Blank Vellums and Private Documents. Or you  will have one extremely irate customer.

You hear me?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 30 juillet 2011 - 12:50 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Yrkoon wrote...

You guys better not even THINK about getting rid of our Stale Biscuits, Torn Trousers, Rusty knives, Blank Vellums and Private Documents. Or you  will have one extremely irate customer.

You hear me?

Not to worry. You'll be able to get the incredible 'Junk Item Pack DLC' to add them back in.

[Brockololly]

JohnEpler wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Well, hell, screw loot. Lets just have coins explode out of the enemies along side all their vital organs in a cascade of bodily fluids and raw currency.

Brock, I'm sure you're well aware that saying 'Junk loot may not be a staple of the series forever' is not the same as saying 'EVERYONE DROPS COINS AND NOTHING BUT COINS!'. There is plenty of middle ground to tread, and hyperbole does you no credit.

I am dead serious John.

I think it would be a seriously innovative and a ground breaking paradign shift that would truly move the RPG genre out of its obvious death throes to have literal bags of coins explode out of your vanquished foes in a shower of viscera and cold hard currency. And to chart one's progress in exploding coin blood orgy fun, all said coins would be collected at the residence of The Most Important Super Awesome Player Character Chosen One of Thedas to be piled in a giant Scrooge McDuck like vault where the Player Character could engage in zany minigames like swimming through a sea of accumulated coin and giblets, in 3D and with motion control while having real time updates to face book for all your friends to see, OF COURSE.






Yes, I realize there is a middle ground to be had, but its too often in BioWare games it seems the way problematic systems are "fixed" is to simply axe them or streamline them into nothing. Like with DA2 where various changed elements, loot or otherwise flew right past any middle ground.

Loot is, IMO, a central aspect of any RPG and one which should be tied to player progression and customization. I'd be fine with getting rid of some junk loot at least as it was presented in DA2, but in nixing junk loot I can see it where loot overall becomes meaningless, similar to how we've gotten to the point in DA2 where you can't change companion armor or in the case of Varric, weapons. Why not just get rid of loot and just have them as upgrades at that point? Its a slippery slope.

Instead, keep some junk loot but give it some small purpose. Whether thats certain merchants who pay a premium for Blank Vellum because they're Blank Vellum connoisseurs or have it that instead of giving coin to that beggar, you can pawn off that Stale Biscuit to him or if you get a intriguing sounding book, give it a little codex entry or description at least. In an RPG it should be about creating a believable world at every level and quirky loot can do that but it needs to do more than occupy a spot on a Excel-like inventory list.

Just seems issues with loot end up coming back to issues with inventory, which I think needs work too (ADD A GRID INVENTORY) but I'll shut up now.

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 juillet 2011 - 01:16 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Brockololly wrote...

I think it would be a seriously innovative and a ground breaking paradign shift that would truly move the RPG genre out of its obvious death throes to have literal bags of coins explode out of your vanquished foes in a shower of viscera and cold hard currency. And to chart one's progress in exploding coin blood orgy fun, all said coins would be collected at the residence of The Most Important Super Awesome Player Character Chosen One of Thedas to be piled in a giant Scrooge McDuck like vault where the Player Character could engage in zany minigames like swimming through a sea of accumulated coin and giblets, in 3D and with motion control while having real time updates to face book for all your friends to see, OF COURSE.

I see you've played Fable III.

[Sutekh]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I think it would be a seriously innovative and a ground breaking paradign shift that would truly move the RPG genre out of its obvious death throes to have literal bags of coins explode out of your vanquished foes in a shower of viscera and cold hard currency. And to chart one's progress in exploding coin blood orgy fun, all said coins would be collected at the residence of The Most Important Super Awesome Player Character Chosen One of Thedas to be piled in a giant Scrooge McDuck like vault where the Player Character could engage in zany minigames like swimming through a sea of accumulated coin and giblets, in 3D and with motion control while having real time updates to face book for all your friends to see, OF COURSE.

I see you've played Fable III.

Come on, it's a fantastic idea. Now picture that enormous pile of coins becoming alive because of all the blood and internal organs it 's been in contact of, some of them probably darkspawn-tainted. Alive, sentient, and very, very hungry.

(And what's wrong with Fable III? My daughter plays it and she loves her big pile of coins. Reminded her of Uncle Scrooge and his Pool of Money)

[Brockololly]

Sutekh wrote...
Come on, it's a fantastic idea. Now picture that enormous pile of coins becoming alive because of all the blood and internal organs it 's been in contact of, some of them probably darkspawn-tainted. Alive, sentient, and very, very hungry.

Mark it down- boss of Dragon Age III: Krazy Koin Kaos will be a blood mage created coin/giblet abomination powered by a demon of GREED:wizard:

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...
Loot is, IMO, a central aspect of any RPG and one which should be tied to player progression and customization. I'd be fine with getting rid of some junk loot at least as it was presented in DA2, but in nixing junk loot I can see it where loot overall becomes meaningless, similar to how we've gotten to the point in DA2 where you can't change companion armor or in the case of Varric, weapons. Why not just get rid of loot and just have them as upgrades at that point? Its a slippery slope.  

I think nothing is more fundamentally opposed to what an RPG is that loot. It's pure and simple nonsense.

To begin with, the power curves on loot are ridiculous in most games. This means that there is no actual choice with junk loot.

What do 50 darkspawn daggers, blank vellums and garnets add to customization? Nothing, because they're either suboptimal weapons outclassed at every tier or not even equipable in the first place. 

They're vendor trash, nothing more. Replacing vendor trash with coin just kills the pack mule design RPGs are apparently cursed with.

In fact, I will go so far as to say that killing and removing loot from games is the only way to get a halfway realistic inventory.

Let's look at TW1 - how much loot was there? Functionally, almost none. There were weapon drops, but weapons were basically identical. There were three tiers of armour, one of which was tied to the story. And otherwise, there were flavour items that had uses either in alchemy or directly in buffs. 

TW2 wrecked this great inventory system for trash items and a list.

Instead, keep some junk loot but give it some small purpose. Whether thats certain merchants who pay a premium for Blank Vellum because they're Blank Vellum connoisseurs or have it that instead of giving coin to that beggar, you can pawn off that Stale Biscuit to him or if you get a intriguing sounding book, give it a little codex entry or description at least. In an RPG it should be about creating a believable world at every level and quirky loot can do that but it needs to do more than occupy a spot on a Excel-like inventory list.

Quirky loot doesn't create a believable world. Having a vendor obsessed with paper doesn't make the world real, unless crazy but somehow succesful business make you think "totally real!"

Why does picking up and selling garbage adds to your immersion?

[mcsupersport]

Brockololly wrote...


I think it would be a seriously innovative and a ground breaking paradign shift that would truly move the RPG genre out of its obvious death throes to have literal bags of coins explode out of your vanquished foes in a shower of viscera and cold hard currency. And to chart one's progress in exploding coin blood orgy fun, all said coins would be collected at the residence of The Most Important Super Awesome Player Character Chosen One of Thedas to be piled in a giant Scrooge McDuck like vault where the Player Character could engage in zany minigames like swimming through a sea of accumulated coin and giblets, in 3D and with motion control while having real time updates to face book for all your friends to see, OF COURSE.

I see you envision LEGO™ Dragon Age now, because they have been doing  the coin explosions for years.  My son loves it, but I would rather go in a better direction. 

[_Aine_]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

You guys better not even THINK about getting rid of our Stale Biscuits, Torn Trousers, Rusty knives, Blank Vellums and Private Documents. Or you  will have one extremely irate customer.

You hear me?

Not to worry. You'll be able to get the incredible 'Junk Item Pack DLC' to add them back in.

That is the up-and-coming crafting-upgrade DLC.    Be patient.  Silky underpants you can embroider with your familial H is worth waiting for.   *nods*  

[Yrkoon]

I'm not sure that Loot and (fantasy) RPGs are fundamentally opposed. Ever. Since the very beginning of things the natural motivation for slaying that dragon was to get to its legendary Hoard. The purpose for venturing deep into the bowels of a dungeon was to find the ancient forgotten treasure/relicry. Any any rags to riches story is about acquiring Riches.

But that all said, when a fantasy RPG's version of a convenience store sells powerful artifacts and unlimited supplies of enchanted equipment, then something obviously broke within the system along the way. In my old Pen and Paper days, my DM's campaign was loot heavy, but we had to fight tooth and claw for everything we got. We did NOT have the luxury of being able to just walk down to the "merchant" square and take our pick of Excalibur, Thor's Hammer and Sauron's ring. Because that would be silly.    it cheapens the drama.  And  it's definitely  not in the spirit of any good role-playing adventure.  We also couldn't just  decide to gather a bunch of ingredients and  quickly  whip together  a powerful magic item.  Same reason.

On the flipside, I can't imagine the blandness of a system void of rich and storied magical loot. If I want to immerse myself in a game where the only reward is money,  I'll go play the stock market and leave my "fantasy RPG" desires behind.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:00 .