345 réponses à ce sujet

[Giantdeathrobot]

 ''This is just flat out wrong and you should know that.''

Is it? In the Deep Roads (not talking about Orzammar), you basically slog through hordes of Darkspawn, spirits and assorted murderous critters. You talk with the ghoulish dwarf, the Legion and those persons at the end (hey, no spoilers) and... that's it. In HAven, you talk to the villagers then fight, talk to Genetivi, kill hordes of cultist, talk with their leader, do some puzzles and combat, and over it is. In Legacy you talk with the party at the beginning and at pretty much every interval in the story, get respites in terms of relevent codex entries and viewpoints (good idea there, too), uncover massive amounts of lore, talk even more based on whom is in your party (which was very rare even in Origins, and I daresay party intervention is one of the few things DA2 did better than it's predessor), encounter a ghoul (patterns, Bioware?), do some puzzles, and the final level and confrontation change depending on your choice. Legacy was certainly more enjoyable than the Deep Roads or the whole Haven-Dragon temple sub-plots to me.

Also, props to the person who linked Gamebanshee. One of the few really interesting game review sites, at least regarding ROGs and the like.

[Alright-Television]

"Is it?" Yes, it is. I can guarantee without even looking anything up that Origins has a bigger spoken word count than Legacy. No question. Full game beats DLC. I can also guarantee that Origins has a bigger slogging through hordes of enemies count than Legacy.

[Giantdeathrobot]

 Then the problem is one of reading comprehension. I said any PART of the story. As in, the Deep Roads, Haven, Howe estate, the Mage's Tower, and such (Redcliffe is the exception here, however, and possibly the woods of the Dalish). Of course Origins as a whole has more dialog, that's rather obvious.

[Mr.House]

One site gives Legacy a bad review and the DA2 hate crowd hold onto it like it's scared when Legacy has been a huge success, it did what LotSB did last year.

I still find it amusing that the haters are still here and complaining about the game they hate, bash Legacy, say they refuse to buy it, want it free ect. Bioware must have a becon that stops these people from staying away from the site.

[Alright-Television]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Then the problem is one of reading comprehension. I said any PART of the story. As in, the Deep Roads, Haven, Howe estate, the Mage's Tower, and such (Redcliffe is the exception here, however, and possibly the woods of the Dalish). Of course Origins as a whole has more dialog, that's rather obvious.

Then your problem is that your comparison is outright silly and doesn't prove anything. Isolating one part of Origins and making it go up against Legacy doesn't prove anything. Full product beats part of a product. I'm so glad we understand each other. Was there a point you were making?

edit: Who's holding onto something? I for one haven't seen the review brought up until you brought it up. Stop bringing things up.

Modifié par Alright-Television, 31 juillet 2011 - 10:19 .

[MorrigansLove]

Mr.House wrote...

One site gives Legacy a bad review and the DA2 hate crowd hold onto it like it's scared when Legacy has been a huge success, it did what LotSB did last year.

I still find it amusing that the haters are still here and complaining about the game they hate, bash Legacy, say they refuse to buy it, want it free ect. Bioware must have a becon that stops these people from staying away from the site.

Anyone who complains about something they haven't bought is an idiot.

[Wulfram]

By the standards of previous Dragon Age DLCs, 55 isn't a particularly bad score.

[Seeker Sparrow]

Mr.House wrote...

One site gives Legacy a bad review and the DA2 hate crowd hold onto it like it's scared when Legacy has been a huge success, it did what LotSB did last year.

That it did, I think the problem is that if a DLC features something that completely stands out better than anything from the vanilla game then someone is going to complain it wasn't included with the game when it shipped.

Personally think the reviewer simply didn't like the game to begin with and so Legacy was never going to drastically change anything which seemed to be the core of what his review said even with the slight bias.

[TEWR]

Sparrow Hawke wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

One site gives Legacy a bad review and the DA2 hate crowd hold onto it like it's scared when Legacy has been a huge success, it did what LotSB did last year.

That it did, I think the problem is that if a DLC features something that completely stands out better than anything from the vanilla game then someone is going to complain it wasn't included with the game when it shipped.

I agree with this. Which then raises the problem of the other side. If the DLC is ****ty, then Bioware made a ****ty to mediocre DLC that wasn't worth the money, and they get attacked for it.

And like you said, if it's amazing, Bioware gets attacked because people had to pay for this DLC that "should've been in the main game".

Bioware can't win either way. I'd rather they make quality DLCs though, like Legacy.

[iggy4566]

Regardless of whether you hate or like DA2 you should never take Gamespot's reviews seriously.

[Seeker Sparrow]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I agree with this. Which then raises the problem of the other side. If the DLC is ****ty, then Bioware made a ****ty to mediocre DLC that wasn't worth the money, and they get attacked for it.

And like you said, if it's amazing, Bioware gets attacked because people had to pay for this DLC that "should've been in the main game".

Bioware can't win either way. I'd rather they make quality DLCs though, like Legacy.

Don't get me wrong would I have preferred this level of quality in the vanilla, certainly. However add-on content sort of acts as a bit of a contigency for developers if players found issues with the current release of the game and personally I think Bioware are quite capable of producing some quality content as House pointed out.

In my opinion and this is my little challenge for Bioware is whether or not they'd be prepared to take the current state of the vanilla game and tweak it, add some things to it, overhaul the story etc. maybe add some new content to it like the supposed 'Act 4 Expansion, Hawke/Carver/Bethany Lothering Origins and the Year One stuff with the smugglers/mercernaries and re-release this game maybe next year. Call it the 'Enhanced Champion Edition' or something and have it as DLC as well.....

....but that is a discussion for another thread.

Modifié par Sparrow Hawke, 31 juillet 2011 - 10:57 .

[axl99]

Well.... There's always Youtube.

Not that I encourage it, but the choice is there.

[Yrkoon]

axl99 wrote...

Gamespot isn't the end all be all of reviews.

If no one wants to bother actually purchasing the DLC to play it but just wanna know if it's really any good, there are plenty of livestream and gameplay vids to go through. Of course that's spoiler territory, but some people really don't care do they?

For what its worth, the  Metacritic Reviews are  coming in as well.

For Xbox


For PC.

Slightly different user scores, but both in the  "mixed reception" range.  Also note:    Interesting Laidlaw  Contribution on the PC user review section.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 31 juillet 2011 - 11:07 .

[axl99]

User-submitted Metacritic reviews are notoriously skewed and biased [not to mention unconstructive]. Even I have to take that with a tablespoon of sea salt.

[Selene Moonsong]

Yrkoon - Sorry not the real Laidlaw of BioWare if that is what you are trying to suggest.

[TEWR]

Sparrow Hawke wrote...

Don't get me wrong would I have preferred this level of quality in the vanilla, certainly. However add-on content sort of acts as a bit of a contigency for developers if players found issues with the current release of the game and personally I think Bioware are quite capable of producing some quality content as House pointed out.

In my opinion and this is my little challenge for Bioware is whether or not they'd be prepared to take the current state of the vanilla game and tweak it, add some things to it, overhaul the story etc. maybe add some new content to it like the supposed 'Act 4 Expansion, Hawke/Carver/Bethany Lothering Origins and the Year One stuff with the smugglers/mercernaries and re-release this game maybe next year. Call it the 'Enhanced Champion Edition' or something and have it as DLC as well.....

....but that is a discussion for another thread.

Oh I definitely would've preferred the level of quality Legacy gave in the vanilla. But I agree with you. DLC acts as a way to address issues with the game sometimes. Which is a good thing.


And if Bioware did your challenge I'd be happy.

[nitefyre410]

Sparrow Hawke wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I agree with this. Which then raises the problem of the other side. If the DLC is ****ty, then Bioware made a ****ty to mediocre DLC that wasn't worth the money, and they get attacked for it.

And like you said, if it's amazing, Bioware gets attacked because people had to pay for this DLC that "should've been in the main game".

Bioware can't win either way. I'd rather they make quality DLCs though, like Legacy.

Don't get me wrong would I have preferred this level of quality in the vanilla, certainly. However add-on content sort of acts as a bit of a contigency for developers if players found issues with the current release of the game and personally I think Bioware are quite capable of producing some quality content as House pointed out.

In my opinion and this is my little challenge for Bioware is whether or not they'd be prepared to take the current state of the vanilla game and tweak it, add some things to it, overhaul the story etc. maybe add some new content to it like the supposed 'Act 4 Expansion, Hawke/Carver/Bethany Lothering Origins and the Year One stuff with the smugglers/mercernaries and re-release this game maybe next year. Call it the 'Enhanced Champion Edition' or something and have it as DLC as well.....

....but that is a discussion for another thread.

 


You know this I could get down with  esp. the  first year in Kirkwall  and a Act 4 about how the group eventually split up.

[TEWR]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Yrkoon - Sorry not the real Laidlaw of BioWare if that is what you are trying to suggest.

It's Laidlaw's evil twin! Hatelaw!

[Addai]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

True, I was referring to the "it's the best DLC Bioware ever made!!!" type of comments.  Because even looking at it as generously as I can, that seems... exaggerated.

Doesn't feel that exaggarated to me. LotSB is the only other Bioware DLC  I consider on par with Legacy. But they both excell in very different ways.

Which, of course, is not remotely saying its the best DLC ever made by anyone. Or that Bioware set the bar overly high on prior DA DLCs.

Warden's Keep and Stone Prisoner are by far my favorite Bioware DLCs.  Not only for their own content, but because they add to a game I actually enjoy playing.  If DA2 is one of those games... nah, I still don't get the enthusiasm.  "Slight improvement over DA2" =/ good.

Modifié par Addai67, 31 juillet 2011 - 11:57 .

[Zjarcal]

Addai67 wrote...

True, I was referring to the "it's the best DLC Bioware ever made!!!" type of comments.  Because even looking at it as generously as I can, that seems... exaggerated.

Tis a subjective issue. To me it's definitely the best DA DLC of the entire series (better than all the DAO DLCs combined) and it rivals LotSB as the overall best. And no, I ain't exaggerating, that's how I feel.

[lizzbee]

devSin wrote...

Dude, DLC never reviews well at these sorts of places. Who cares?

Filament wrote...

3) I didn't encounter any of those audio glitches.

I don't know about cracks and pops, but I really do despise the way this engine handles audio. It infuriates me to no end that I have to wheel the camera around to hear anything (to get around their "spatial" audio crap; at least it doesn't bug out quite as often as Origins did), a moving source changes way too rapidly (if I have to chase after you to hear what you're saying, SOMEBODY DID SOMETHING WRONG), it's not set up in any intelligible manner (wow, we reached a trigger point and now there is party banter, on top of the conversation of the peasants we just passed, beside the comment of the person we just bumped into, all smothered by a fat dump of environmental effects from hell).

And to top it all off, when they swapped out FMOD for whatever crap they use now, I guess they decided to go through and mute the hell out of everything, just for kicks. There are almost no high highs or low lows, and everything is normalized to the most tepid volume that I've ever heard come out of these speakers. I have to turn Windows volume up to 100%, and I still can't get decent audio (Origins or Mass Effect could rattle the windows at that level).

How did this happen, BioWare? Are you all deaf now and you just can't tell? Or is it only the PC version, which you don't care about anyway?

Are you on Windows 7?  I had horrible popping issues, and the "fix," disabling "Force Stereo Sound," left me with the same volume issues.  Try this: Right click the Volume system tray icon, select "Playback Devices," select your playback device, then click "Properties."  On the "Enhancments" tab, tick "Loudness Equalization," when you want to play.  Make sure to uncheck it later-- it has odd effects on audio for most programs.

[lizzbee]

Zjarcal wrote...

That review is garbage, seriously.

Bugs may indeed happen for some, but I do wonder if he tested it on more than one machine (which is the only fair thing to do for a reviewer). Considering that I haven seen barely any complaints about bugs in the forums, it's safe to say that's not a widespread issue.

Wait, what?  Testing on multiple machines is Bioware's job, not a reviewer's!  Your contention shows a remarkable ignorance of not just the industry, but magazine, blog and online publishing as a whole.  Very few publications have full in-house staff and testing labs to be able to carry out the same kind of QC you'd expect of, well, the game developer. 

Many reviewers are freelance and have the same kinds of technological setups you'd see the average forum member sporting.  You know, a gaming rig, a console, a laptop.  Unless you're some kind of compulsive hoarder of machines or enjoy running your own personal cluster, you're not going to have multiple machines sitting around to test out DLC on.  Add in deadlines, you're going to have time to play the game on your main machine, crank out a review, and that's it.  An honest reviewer mentions quality and bug issues if said reviewer experienced them.

The audio glitches are a sign of sloppy quality control on Bioware's end, just as the immortal enemies bug is.  I've experienced both, honestly.

Modifié par lizzbee, 01 août 2011 - 12:41 .

[Cutlass Jack]

lizzbee wrote...

Wait, what?  Testing on multiple machines is Bioware's job, not a reviewer's!  Your contention shows a remarkable ignorance of not just the industry, but magazine, blog and online publishing as a whole.  Very few publications have full in-house staff and testing labs to be able to carry out the same kind of QC you'd expect of, well, the game developer. 

If a reviewer is going to copy and paste the review for both the PC and X-Box versions, he should check to see if those bugs happen on both a PC and an X-Box. That would be his job.