345 réponses à ce sujet

[Salaya]

Well, I don't like DA2, but I enjoyed Legacy a lot

I don't get the criticism about the final boss. Before playing it, I read something about that, too. But the combat was cool and challenging for me.

[nitefyre410]

Demon Velsper wrote...

In this topic: "ZOMG!! Someone else on the internet has an opinion, and what's worse, it's different from MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE!!! :crying:"

 


LOL ... you sir win comment of the day award for that. and the day is just starting for me at least.

[Jabba L5]

Morroian wrote...
So I take it you are in fact Kevin. Why defend some nobody online game reviewer who clearly gives inconsistent reviews otherwise and even if he is right about the bugs he is wrong on other counts like the waves appearing from nowhere, that is something Bioware fixed.

Kevin VanOrd is a great reviewer, and one of the few guys who decided to stay around after Gerstmann got fired. People who whine about him are usually the guys who get upset because he slammed their favourite game at one point.

And people who accuse him of being 'bought', or are otherwise searching for an agenda to hold him accountable by, are just being a bunch disingenuous pricks, man.

Modifié par Jabba L5, 29 juillet 2011 - 12:38 .

[Yrkoon]

Jabba L5 wrote...

It was PC Gamer, correct.

Back then Gamespot's review ( which gave Dragon Age 2 an 8.0, and was written by the same Kevin VanOrd ) was praised for its fairness ( by people who didn't like Dragon Age 2 ) for a short while because it was one of the lower scores the game got; reviews were still coming in at that time.

Compared to the fact that exactly the same reviewer gave Origins a 9.5, an 8.0 seems more like a lukewarm reception than outright lavishing the game with praise.

Except that  he actually gave   Dragon Age: Origins  an 8.5.  And I don't know about you, but a half a point difference for DA2 isn't what I'd call   a "lukewarm reception".  Both literally equate to "Great" on the Gamspot  rating system.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 29 juillet 2011 - 01:57 .

[Ginkeh]

xkg wrote...

Ginkeh wrote...

 What a bull**** review.

 but it has no singular moment to make it special.

I`d say there was a pretty huge singular moment at the end, a certain revelation made about a key piece of lore in the DA universe. People who has played Legacy will know what I mean. 

I can agree that it was incredibly frustrating that the hold-function didn`t work at all in this DLC, but it was the only thing that felt bugged for me, the rest was smooth.

5,5 is just laughable, I`d understand 7 because of the price, but it`s at least an 8 for a DLC if you don`t count the price of it. Just my opinion.

Now you see, it works both ways. 5,5 is his opinion and I am sure your 8 is laughable for him.

What`s your point?

I didn`t say he wasn`t entitled to his opinion or anything, I was simply expressing mine, and my opinion of his review.

[Ginkeh]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Demon Velsper wrote...

In this topic: "ZOMG!! Someone else on the internet has an opinion, and what's worse, it's different from MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE!!! :crying:"

 


LOL ... you sir win comment of the day award for that. and the day is just starting for me at least.

So what critics say is final, and "damn you if you disagree with them"?

This just in folks, don`t you dare share your opinions on this forum, especially if it contradicts with what a game critic says!

You`re both morons who can`t think for yourselves and take part so you just troll people who do by using caps, LOLs and emoticons.

[Fallstar]

I'd say the guy got it the wrong way round. DA:2 was a solid 6.5 for me, and I'd say Legacy was an 8.5. It was a decent piece of dlc, almost on a par with the kind we've been getting for Fallout.

[Gongutza]

Sincerely, despite what you say, I think everyone who bought and played this DLC liked or wanted to like DA2.

but if you have moeny to spend, I guess go 4 it.

[Rixxencaxx]

zero interest for the dlc...no one talks about it on the internet and very few people even in here.
Bioware need to accept the idea that dragon age 2 is definitely broken....people only wants to forget about it....

Modifié par Rixxencaxx, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:11 .

[csfteeeer]

Yrkoon wrote...

Jabba L5 wrote...

It was PC Gamer, correct.

Back then Gamespot's review ( which gave Dragon Age 2 an 8.0, and was written by the same Kevin VanOrd ) was praised for its fairness ( by people who didn't like Dragon Age 2 ) for a short while because it was one of the lower scores the game got; reviews were still coming in at that time.

Compared to the fact that exactly the same reviewer gave Origins a 9.5, an 8.0 seems more like a lukewarm reception than outright lavishing the game with praise.

Except that  he actually gave   Dragon Age: Origins  an 8.5.  And I don't know about you, but a half a point difference for DA2 isn't what I'd call   a "lukewarm reception".  Both literally equate to "Great" on the Gamspot  rating system.

Except that that was for the 360 version only, while the ps3 version got a 9.0, and the pc version got a 9.5
DA2 got an 8.0, on ALLOf the versions

Modifié par csfteeeer, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:28 .

[Aaleel]

Wow harsh. I'm a big critic of DA2, but I thought the DLC was well done. I only bought it because some of the Bioware people that come on this forum said the DLC would show that they have listened to players.

And they really showed that they listened and are trying, this is nothing close to more of the same that was in the main game.

I don't think this reviewer wanted to like the DLC. He just brushes over the good things about it, or says yeah it was good BUT...

He must have the worst luck with bugs because I didn't experience all that.

Modifié par Aaleel, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:54 .

[Yrkoon]

csfteeeer wrote...

Except that that was for the 360 version only, while the ps3 version got a 9.0, and the pc version got a 9.5
DA2 got an 8.0, on ALLOf the versions

Point? I wasn't trying to do a "gotcha", I was just pointing out that the difference in the his ratings between the two games can hardly be explained as one of the games being "lukewarm" while the other is "gushing praise".

And it doesn't matter anyway. His Legacy review (what this thread's about) was on Xbox. if we're going to make an honest assesment of his overall "argument" lets stick with that platform. Especially since his 5.5 rating of Legacy is almost primarily due to the bugs he's encountered (which as far as I know, are virtually non-existant on the PC version.)

Modifié par Yrkoon, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:41 .

[In Exile]

xkg wrote...
well, comparing it to for example New Vegas DLCs like Dead Money (how much new content you get, gameplay length etc) at the same 10$ price ... no comments.

Do you think a 20 hr game should have a worse rating than a 60 hour game, just in virtue of the fact one is shorter than the other? 

[xkg]

In Exile wrote...

xkg wrote...
well, comparing it to for example New Vegas DLCs like Dead Money (how much new content you get, gameplay length etc) at the same 10$ price ... no comments.

Do you think a 20 hr game should have a worse rating than a 60 hour game, just in virtue of the fact one is shorter than the other? 

Did i say "only gameplay length matters" ?
Read again maybe you will find this
" (how much new content you get, gameplay length etc) "

[Yrkoon]

Er... the point remains? NWN2 had 3 times the content, the length and the gameplay of Mask of the betrayer. But  good luck finding anyone giving it a higher score.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:51 .

[In Exile]

Yrkoon wrote...
And it doesn't matter anyway. His Legacy review (what this thread's about) was on Xbox. if we're going to make an honest assesment of his overall "argument" lets stick with that platform. Especially since his 5.5 rating of Legacy is almost primarily due to the bugs he's encountered (which as far as I know, are virtually non-existant on the PC version.)

Bug should still count, to be fair. But Bioware's games are always buggy. You either get lucky or not (I've always been lucky) but it does happen that their releases are not the most stable. 

Still, when you look at the reception on any platform, it always goes back to "legacy was better than DA2". Not to say that everyone loved it, but the people who liked DA2 certainly really liked Legacy.

Jabba L5 wrote...

Kevin VanOrd is a great reviewer, and one of the few guys who decided to stay around after Gerstmann got fired. People who whine about him are usually the guys who get upset because he slammed their favourite game at one point.

And people who accuse him of being 'bought', or are otherwise searching for an agenda to hold him accountable by, are just being a bunch disingenuous pricks, man.

Let's look at how he really tells it like it is. 

From the DA2 review:

Player choice manifests itself in interesting ways   Spectacular writing and voice acting bring each character to life   Fascinating world characterized by moral ambiguity   Combat is fun, fast-paced, and colorful   Great symphonic soundtrack.

So DA2 has "interesting" player choice? Fast-paced, fun combat? "Spectacular" writing? 

And the conclusion:

 Here is a game in which decisions have consequences that ripple outward, producing effects you may not have seen coming. What makes them more effective is that there is not always a clearly bad or good path to take--not in this world in which greed and anger course through the veins of so many, regardless of their affiliation. Personal connections in your family and adventuring party further complicate matters, ensuring there isn't one obvious way to continue. It's a shame that these intricacies were tempered by unnecessary simplification and unfocused storytelling. Nevertheless, Dragon Age II makes a strong impression, pulling you through with the promise of another fun quest, another character to meet, and another beast to slay.

And then we have legacy, which is: 

You return home after this battle for a brief but heartfelt moment of nostalgia. It's unfortunate that this gentle postlude is betrayed by the routine encounters and slipshod execution that preceded it. Because it doesn't combine its bits and pieces into a cohesive vision, Dragon Age II: Legacy shines a spotlight on the run-of-the-mill nature of its individual elements. 

Run of the mill elements... like it's fantasic voice acting, spectacular writing,and fun combat? 

Modifié par In Exile, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:52 .

[In Exile]

xkg wrote...
Did i say "only gameplay length matters" ?
Read again maybe you will find this
" (how much new content you get, gameplay length etc) "

I didn't say you said only gameplay length matters. I asked you we should value a longer game more than a shorter game, which you're still trying to dodge. 

[Giltspur]

Disagree with the review. I thought Legacy was very much a step in the right direciton, and it increased my enthusiasm for future DA products.

I suppose it's interesting to see a different viewpoint.  He seems to differ from me on a few points.

1. He talks about how the control was a problem for the final boss.  I suspected a lot of people would react this way because the game doesn't really teach you to control your party.  Indeed normal seems be designed for people that mostly just control Hawke and don't pause much.  But then you have these movement based fights like ARW and the last guy in Legacy just dropped on you that require understanding how to use the UI to move effectively.  I get that concern even if I didn't experience it myself.  On the one hand, he's blaming the developer when there's still room to improve himself as a player.  But that's what people do.  They assume someone else is always the problem.  It's still useful feedback for Bioware because others probably reacted the same way the Gamespot guy did.

2. He mentions bugs that I never encountered.  I can see how that would impair someone's enjoyment.  I didn't encounter these bugs.

3. He seems less impressed by the hints you get about the creation of the Darkspawn and the entry to the Golden City than I was.  I found the story compelling from a lore perspective but also engaging in that this was the quest where I most identified with Hawke.  I got why he was there, and I wanted him to succeed.  That wasn't always the case in the core game where sometimes just seemed to be doing what he was doing because it was a game and those were the quests.

If I'm Bioware, I'd be kind of pissed off with the review.  DA2 had some problems.  So they make some adjustments to get a feel for how people receive them.  And then they get hit with a negative reveiw from mainstream press and good reviews from forum users.  So they have to ask themselves if Gamespot represents the majority of the gamers that don't post on forums and if they've designed too narrowly to where only a BSN poster can appreciate or if it's just a strange review by one person.  I think the positive reaction on these forums is warranted and that the Gamespot review is a bit off and shouldn't be given too much weight.

[PsychoBlonde]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I didn't run into any sound problems. I did encounter hard to kill enemies. Their health bar got stuck with only a few pixels left. And no... My rig is fine. I didn't get any of the crashes that some people reported either.

Yeah, the bugs with DA2 have been pernicious.  I didn't have any problem with them originally, but now after the patches that were supposed to be fixing issues other people had, I AM HAVING THOSE ISSUES.  Now when I try to hurry conversations along, sometimes they freeze up.  So it fixed their game and broke mine?  WTF.

And I had the enemies that just wouldn't die problem also--made worse because it would NOT let me re-target people to attack other enemies.  Fortunately it only happened three or four times and I was able to clear it by killing other enemies.  Still really annoying.

Overall, however, I quite enjoyed Legacy and would like to see more.

[In Exile]

Giltspur wrote...
If I'm Bioware, I'd be kind of pissed off with the review.  DA2 had some problems.  So they make some adjustments to get a feel for how people receive them.  And then they get hit with a negative reveiw from mainstream press and good reviews from forum users.  So they have to ask themselves if Gamespot represents the majority of the gamers that don't post on forums and if they've designed too narrowly to where only a BSN poster can appreciate or if it's just a strange review by one person.  I think the positive reaction on these forums is warranted and that the Gamespot review is a bit off and shouldn't be given too much weight.

A lot of other review sites have a positive impression of legacy. Not "OMG this is groundbreaking!" but "overall better than DA2 and fun, if sadly ending on a cliffhanger and expensive" which is not unfair, IMO.

For comparison's sake, Witch Hunt got a 5.0, and I think Legacy is (relatively speaking) far better than that. 

[xkg]

In Exile wrote...

xkg wrote...
Did i say "only gameplay length matters" ?
Read again maybe you will find this
" (how much new content you get, gameplay length etc) "

I didn't say you said only gameplay length matters. I asked you we should value a longer game more than a shorter game, which you're still trying to dodge. 

I am not trying to dodge anything. I only mentioned gameplay length as one of the factors.
To me your question looks like straw-manning and thats why I don't feel inclined to answer to it.

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

xkg wrote...
well, comparing it to for example New Vegas DLCs like Dead Money (how much new content you get, gameplay length etc) at the same 10$ price ... no comments.

Do you think a 20 hr game should have a worse rating than a 60 hour game, just in virtue of the fact one is shorter than the other? 

I'd say as long as all other factors are equal (and that includes the price) then the shorter game can warrant a worse rating, purely on the basis of worse length of entertainment provided/price ratio.

Modifié par tmp7704, 29 juillet 2011 - 03:14 .

[jds1bio]

I just read the review. It sounds to me like he expected to win the final boss battle the first time, and was sore that he didn't win, blaming it primarily on the inability to finely-control his party. And I haven't experienced the audio issues or people talking over each other.

While I'm enjoying Legacy myself, I do think that an updated engine is needed for the next DA game. This add-on, while definitely making some combat improvements, is also amplifying its weaknesses.

[FieryDove]

In Exile wrote...

A lot of other review sites have a positive impression of legacy. Not "OMG this is groundbreaking!" but "overall better than DA2 and fun, if sadly ending on a cliffhanger and expensive" which is not unfair, IMO.

For comparison's sake, Witch Hunt got a 5.0, and I think Legacy is (relatively speaking) far better than that. 

Maybe the reviewer is a big Morrigan fan? It doesn't make sense to me, any of these reviews.