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Gamespot gives damming review of Legacy


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#201
Alright-Television

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Melca36 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

All these people saying the DLC is just combat, I ask you this...

What
were the DAO DLCs? Tea and cakes with Darkspawn? I mean seriously.
Warden's Keep was just fighting demons and undead with dialogue spruced
in. Return to Ostagar was almost entirely combat with 4 short cutscenes.

And that's pretty much what Legacy is, only it's better (imo) than both of those two in every way

Claims like "It's just combat with barely any dialogue!" make abso-****ing-lutely no sense to me.



How
much you want to bet that 5 out of ten people trolling this thread with
their own so called reviews have not even played Legacy? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Don't even get me started on the red alert level of paranoia displayed frequently when discussing Dragon Age 2. Some of you are just so lucky there are smileys to cover that up.

And saying a combat-filled DLC is exactly like other combat-filled DLCs isn't saying anything. Did anyone here hold up Origins' DLCs as shining examples somewhere when I wasn't looking? Also, why is it better? You can't skip the 'why' part.

Modifié par Alright-Television, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:26 .


#202
nitefyre410

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Melca36 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

All these people saying the DLC is just combat, I ask you this...

What were the DAO DLCs? Tea and cakes with Darkspawn? I mean seriously. Warden's Keep was just fighting demons and undead with dialogue spruced in. Return to Ostagar was almost entirely combat with 4 short cutscenes.

And that's pretty much what Legacy is, only it's better (imo) than both of those two in every way

Claims like "It's just combat with barely any dialogue!" make abso-****ing-lutely no sense to me.



How much you want to bet that 5 out of ten people trolling this thread with their own so called reviews have not even played Legacy? :devil:

 

10 internets but I would say  6 out of ten

#203
TEWR

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Melca36 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

All these people saying the DLC is just combat, I ask you this...

What were the DAO DLCs? Tea and cakes with Darkspawn? I mean seriously. Warden's Keep was just fighting demons and undead with dialogue spruced in. Return to Ostagar was almost entirely combat with 4 short cutscenes.

And that's pretty much what Legacy is, only it's better (imo) than both of those two in every way

Claims like "It's just combat with barely any dialogue!" make abso-****ing-lutely no sense to me.



How much you want to bet that 5 out of ten people trolling this thread with their own so called reviews have not even played Legacy? :devil:


I'm willing to bet it's 8 out of 10 people Posted Image

#204
S_I_a_D

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

All these people saying the DLC is just combat, I ask you this...

What were the DAO DLCs? Tea and cakes with Darkspawn? I mean seriously. Warden's Keep was just fighting demons and undead with dialogue spruced in. Return to Ostagar was almost entirely combat with 4 short cutscenes.

And that's pretty much what Legacy is, only it's better (imo) than both of those two in every way

Claims like "It's just combat with barely any dialogue!" make abso-****ing-lutely no sense to me.


Huh?
Most people in this thread never expressed their negative opinion in relation to DAO DLC. Compared to that, it's pretty good, I guess. But that doesn't mean it's good from an absolute viewpoint, as opposed to a relative one.
In short: both games had mostly bad, combat heavy DLC.
However, as the DA2 base game is arguably the worse one, a DLC based on that system is also worse by default (if you consider DAO superior gameplaywise, like so many do).

#205
Gunderic

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Alright-Television wrote...

And saying a combat-filled DLC is exactly like other combat-filled DLCs isn't saying anything. Did anyone here hold up Origins' DLCs as shining examples somewhere when I wasn't looking?


This.

I liked a couple of them, though they were by no means amazing.

#206
TEWR

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Alright-Television wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

All these people saying the DLC is just combat, I ask you this...

What
were the DAO DLCs? Tea and cakes with Darkspawn? I mean seriously.
Warden's Keep was just fighting demons and undead with dialogue spruced
in. Return to Ostagar was almost entirely combat with 4 short cutscenes.

And that's pretty much what Legacy is, only it's better (imo) than both of those two in every way

Claims like "It's just combat with barely any dialogue!" make abso-****ing-lutely no sense to me.



How
much you want to bet that 5 out of ten people trolling this thread with
their own so called reviews have not even played Legacy? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png

Don't even get me started on the red alert level of paranoia displayed frequently when discussing Dragon Age 2.

And saying a combat-filled DLC is exactly like other combat-filled DLCs isn't saying anything. Did anyone here hold up Origins' DLCs as shining examples somewhere when I wasn't looking? Also, why is it better? You can't skip the 'why' part.


You missed my point. My point is that people are saying that this DLC is all combat, yet I haven't seen anyone say the same thing of the DAO DLCs.

Now I ask you why?

Is it the fact that DA2 was a mediocre game that makes them judge the DLC so harshly? Is it the fact that DAO was a good game that makes them not criticize the 90% combat that the DLCs were in there? Is it because they were just glad they got to do more with the Warden, so they ignore the faults the DLCs had?

Legacy actually tells a story. Return to Ostagar was about killing Darkspawn. That's exactly what it was. It was combat, plain and simple, with the ulterior motive being sending Cailan's corpse to the inferno.

#207
Alright-Television

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Gunderic wrote...

Alright-Television wrote...

And saying a combat-filled DLC is exactly like other combat-filled DLCs isn't saying anything. Did anyone here hold up Origins' DLCs as shining examples somewhere when I wasn't looking?


This.

I liked a couple of them, though they were by no means amazing.

I liked them all. They weren't great, but good work went into them, and for all the combat they had at least it was good combat. Legacy isn't bad either. I'd say it would be on the same level as the others if it weren't for the poor combat system.

#208
TEWR

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S_I_a_D wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

All these people saying the DLC is just combat, I ask you this...

What were the DAO DLCs? Tea and cakes with Darkspawn? I mean seriously. Warden's Keep was just fighting demons and undead with dialogue spruced in. Return to Ostagar was almost entirely combat with 4 short cutscenes.

And that's pretty much what Legacy is, only it's better (imo) than both of those two in every way

Claims like "It's just combat with barely any dialogue!" make abso-****ing-lutely no sense to me.


Huh?
Most people in this thread never expressed their negative opinion in relation to DAO DLC. Compared to that, it's pretty good, I guess. But that doesn't mean it's good from an absolute viewpoint, as opposed to a relative one.
In short: both games had mostly bad, combat heavy DLC.
However, as the DA2 base game is arguably the worse one, a DLC based on that system is also worse by default (if you consider DAO superior gameplaywise, like so many do).




Yes, I know people haven't expressed negative opinions about DAO DLC. That's my point. Because DAO was a good game, its DLC (which was worse and focused more on combat than Legacy), is apparently worthy of not being criticized for being combat heavy.

DA2's base game was mediocre yes. That doesn't mean the DLC is mediocre too. Rather, it shows what DA2 could've been had the game been given more time. Legacy is a good DLC, which because it came with DA2, is lambasted as being horrible. Some of the reasons I saw were too brown, no story, and some others

If the story they told in Legacy was a DLC that was part of DAO, Legacy would be receiving mountains of praise I'm willing to bet.

Legacy doesn't change the base game. That much should've been obvious to some people, yet for some reason they don't realize it. But it shows what the base game could've been.

#209
S_I_a_D

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

S_I_a_D wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

All these people saying the DLC is just combat, I ask you this...

What were the DAO DLCs? Tea and cakes with Darkspawn? I mean seriously. Warden's Keep was just fighting demons and undead with dialogue spruced in. Return to Ostagar was almost entirely combat with 4 short cutscenes.

And that's pretty much what Legacy is, only it's better (imo) than both of those two in every way

Claims like "It's just combat with barely any dialogue!" make abso-****ing-lutely no sense to me.


Huh?
Most people in this thread never expressed their negative opinion in relation to DAO DLC. Compared to that, it's pretty good, I guess. But that doesn't mean it's good from an absolute viewpoint, as opposed to a relative one.
In short: both games had mostly bad, combat heavy DLC.
However, as the DA2 base game is arguably the worse one, a DLC based on that system is also worse by default (if you consider DAO superior gameplaywise, like so many do).




Yes, I know people haven't expressed negative opinions about DAO DLC. That's my point. Because DAO was a good game, its DLC (which was worse and focused more on combat than Legacy), is apparently worthy of not being criticized for being combat heavy.


You misunderstood my post. But that's fine, because Alright-Television wrote basically the same stuff and you understood him.

#210
TEWR

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You misunderstood my post. But that's fine, because Alright-Television wrote basically the same stuff and you understood him.


Ah crap.... sorry about that.

#211
Sith Grey Warden

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

All these people saying the DLC is just combat, I ask you this...

What were the DAO DLCs? Tea and cakes with Darkspawn? I mean seriously. Warden's Keep was just fighting demons and undead with dialogue spruced in. Return to Ostagar was almost entirely combat with 4 short cutscenes.

And that's pretty much what Legacy is, only it's better (imo) than both of those two in every way

Claims like "It's just combat with barely any dialogue!" make abso-****ing-lutely no sense to me.


This. Whatever its faults (and I found few), Legacy was a big step forward from DAO DLC.

The reviewer apparently encountered a lot of glitches and decided that ruined it for everyone not just him. I would also like to point out that DA games so far have always been very combat-heavy. Here, I actually had to think a bit more, so
it was a lot of better combat.

#212
BounceDK

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Bad dlc for a bad game. Whoop-de-doo.

#213
Alright-Television

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You missed my point. My point is that people are saying that this DLC is all combat, yet I haven't seen anyone say the same thing of the DAO DLCs.

Now I ask you why?

Is it the fact that DA2 was a mediocre game that makes them judge the DLC so harshly? Is it the fact that DAO was a good game that makes them not criticize the 90% combat that the DLCs were in there? Is it because they were just glad they got to do more with the Warden, so they ignore the faults the DLCs had?

Legacy actually tells a story. Return to Ostagar was about killing Darkspawn. That's exactly what it was. It was combat, plain and simple, with the ulterior motive being sending Cailan's corpse to the inferno.

I suppose it was too busy fleshing out the politics between Ferelden and Orlais to tell a story about how the Warden and Alistair reminiscense together with Wynne and Dog. There's a story in RtO, I just have a feeling it's not the kind of story you wanted. To be fair, it's not a terribly great story. Not bad, but... no earths were shattered in the writing process, you know. You're not really sent to recover Cailan's corpse, you're sent to recover his sword and armor as well as the secret correspondence between him and the empress. It's disappointing that it's not brought up again in the game but it does make Loghain a bit less stupid. Incidentally, Legacy is also really about salvaging a poorly written character: Hawke.

Oh, and killing Darkspawn. Fancy that.

Is Legacy being received extra harshly because of its roots? Maybe. But even though it improves on a lot of things that were terrible in the main game, would you not agree that it retains a great deal of DA2 as well? The poor combat system, the linear paths, the your choices are meaningless...

edit: Also, if people haven't said bad things about the Origins DLCs then we've been hanging around on different parts of the internet, my friend. Granted, I prefer the Origins combat system an awful lot more, but... well, that's that.

Modifié par Alright-Television, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:57 .


#214
TEWR

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Alright-Television wrote...

I suppose it was too busy fleshing out the politics between Ferelden and Orlais to tell a story about how the Warden and Alistair reminiscense together with Wynne and Dog. There's a story in RtO, I just have a feeling it's not the kind of story you wanted. To be fair, it's not a terribly great story. Not bad, but... no earths were shattered in the writing process, you know. You're not really sent to recover Cailan's corpse, you're sent to recover his sword and armor as well as the secret correspondence between him and the empress. It's disappointing that it's not brought up again in the game but it does make Loghain a bit less stupid. Incidentally, Legacy is also really about salvaging a poorly written character: Hawke.



I have no issue with the little details they gave to the player. People are just complaining that this DLC was too heavy on combat and not on story, when the DAO DLCs were the ones that were heavy on combat and not on story. Sure it may have made sense (Darkspawn, Blight, Wardens), but if I pay money for a DLC, I'd like a nice story to go with it. I don't want to just add to my kill count and get a few fancy weapons/armor pieces.

The story was basically "Go back to Ostagar, kill more Darkspawn, get a reward. Oh and if possible, burn the king's corpse because we like tossing people in a fire pit."

RtO had a story that was more of a reference to a forgotten plot concept for DAO than an actual original story.

Was it nice to find out some things about Celene and Cailan? Sure, but that's more of a bonus than the actual part of the story. The Darkspawn themselves have no use for those items, so there wasn't any reason to go there for those items.


Is Legacy being received extra harshly because of its roots? Maybe. But even though it improves on a lot of things that were terrible in the main game, would you not agree that it retains a great deal of DA2 as well? The poor combat system, the linear paths, the your choices are meaningless...


Combat system meaning the animations? No, I happen to like those. Are they flawless? No. Are they better than DAO's animations? Oh god yes. I like the combat animations.

Or do you mean the waves? Well, Origins had those too, but they at least made sense. A Blight has hordes of Darkspawn. But I'm pretty sure that Hawke's kill count is about the same as the Warden's. I don't like the waves, but at least they were used sparingly and implemented better in this DLC.

Linear paths? Tell me, how were the maps in DAO non-linear? The Circle Tower was linear. It just had the illusion of non-linearity. DAO's maps were entirely linear. Sure you could derp around, but in the end you had to go in two directions. Forward and backward. But at least they gave you side quests, one that even has you going back a few areas.

choices being meaningless? Well then, choices were meaningless in Warden's Keep too. I picked between Avernus and Sophia, but the end result was the same. The Veil was mended. What if I want the Veil to be torn just so I can be a douchebag? I couldn't do that. But hey, I can at least spare Avernus and tell him to continue his research sans restrictions. That's meaningful. But that was the only meaningful choice.

DAO had one thing DA2 didn't have. An illusion of choice. Occasionally you could make an actual choice.

Also, who you sided with has an impact on the ending of the DLC. That's a meaningful choice right there. Hopefully, Bioware will make Janeka and Larius play out differently. Otherwise then it definitely becomes a meaningless choice. But as it stands, it isn't yet a meaningless choice.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 juillet 2011 - 07:16 .


#215
Melca36

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BounceDK wrote...

Bad dlc for a bad game. Whoop-de-doo.


And why even post since its obvious you didn't play it. <_<

#216
Gunderic

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BounceDK wrote...

Bad dlc for a bad game. Whoop-de-doo.


And this.

Don't think we'll see another ( 'ambitious' ) DLC/expansion for this game either way. Dragon Age 2 has already been bashed to death.

#217
keginkc

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A "damming" review? Like an engineering project to try and stop the flood of positive impressions that other reviewers and players have been sharing?

#218
Atakuma

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Gunderic wrote...

BounceDK wrote...

Bad dlc for a bad game. Whoop-de-doo.


And this.

Don't think we'll see another ( 'ambitious' ) DLC/expansion for this game either way. Dragon Age 2 has already been bashed to death.

What does that have to do with anything? Legacy has been generally well recieved, and the only reason they would stop making DLC is if this one bombed hard.

#219
Addai

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You missed my point. My point is that people are saying that this DLC is all combat, yet I haven't seen anyone say the same thing of the DAO DLCs.

Now I ask you why?

Is it the fact that DA2 was a mediocre game that makes them judge the DLC so harshly? Is it the fact that DAO was a good game that makes them not criticize the 90% combat that the DLCs were in there? Is it because they were just glad they got to do more with the Warden, so they ignore the faults the DLCs had?

Legacy actually tells a story. Return to Ostagar was about killing Darkspawn. That's exactly what it was. It was combat, plain and simple, with the ulterior motive being sending Cailan's corpse to the inferno.

DAO DLC has been trashed aplenty, most of it deserved.  RtO was not just about killing darkspawn, however.  It was an introduction to the idea of intelligent darkspawn (the necromancer) and it brought in the stuff on Cailan and Celene.  Now, Darkspawn Chronicles was definitely a mindless DLC and so was Golems of Amgarrak, which had a story but not one that made much sense.

Naturally if you don't like DA2, you're going to judge Legacy more harshly.  I don't care about Hawke, so the story has little appeal or impact.  I'm not playing the game anymore so I don't care about the loot.  Having to grind away at Corypheus for the little payback in lore and story apart from these things is not fun.  I don't think the story makes much sense, either.  I put it in Golems of Amgarrak category- it is well made and it has a story, but makes the most sense as a meaningless dungeon crawl.

#220
Gunderic

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Atakuma wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

BounceDK wrote...

Bad dlc for a bad game. Whoop-de-doo.


And this.

Don't think we'll see another ( 'ambitious' ) DLC/expansion for this game either way. Dragon Age 2 has already been bashed to death.

What does that have to do with anything? Legacy has been generally well recieved, and the only reason they would stop making DLC is if this one bombed hard.


Precisely. I believe most will have lost interest in the game by now.

#221
MorrigansLove

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Atakuma wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

BounceDK wrote...

Bad dlc for a bad game. Whoop-de-doo.


And this.

Don't think we'll see another ( 'ambitious' ) DLC/expansion for this game either way. Dragon Age 2 has already been bashed to death.

What does that have to do with anything? Legacy has been generally well recieved, and the only reason they would stop making DLC is if this one bombed hard.


Generally well-received? Only on these forums, and it's already been established that these forums only offer a small percentage of the entire fanbase. Just look at the gamespot forums or dragon age wiki where nearly all the threads are about how DA2 legacy was a massive letdown. (albeit they are only a small percentage, too...)

Modifié par MorrigansLove, 31 juillet 2011 - 07:52 .


#222
keginkc

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MorrigansLove wrote...

Generally well-received? Only on these forums


Yeah, 'cause the social network is always a bastion of positive energy.  Rainbows and cotton candy.  And unicorns in pink ribbons.  Just fanboys holding hands and singing songs.

#223
Cutlass Jack

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keginkc wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Generally well-received? Only on these forums


Yeah, 'cause the social network is always a bastion of positive energy.  Rainbows and cotton candy.  And unicorns in pink ribbons.  Just fanboys holding hands and singing songs.


I want to go there.

#224
TEWR

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Addai67 wrote...


DAO DLC has been trashed aplenty, most of it deserved.  RtO was not just about killing darkspawn, however.  It was an introduction to the idea of intelligent darkspawn (the necromancer) and it brought in the stuff on Cailan and Celene.  Now, Darkspawn Chronicles was definitely a mindless DLC and so was Golems of Amgarrak, which had a story but not one that made much sense.

Naturally if you don't like DA2, you're going to judge Legacy more harshly.  I don't care about Hawke, so the story has little appeal or impact.  I'm not playing the game anymore so I don't care about the loot.  Having to grind away at Corypheus for the little payback in lore and story apart from these things is not fun.  I don't think the story makes much sense, either.  I put it in Golems of Amgarrak category- it is well made and it has a story, but makes the most sense as a meaningless dungeon crawl.


I didn't like DA2, and I have very few reasons to replay it. Yet I was able to judge Legacy fairly. Maybe I'm the exception and not the rule. I don't know. DA2 the base game is mediocre, but Legacy is amazing.

#225
Alright-Television

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I have no issue with the little details they gave to the player. People are just complaining that this DLC was too heavy on combat and not on story, when the DAO DLCs were the ones that were heavy on combat and not on story. Sure it may have made sense (Darkspawn, Blight, Wardens), but if I pay money for a DLC, I'd like a nice story to go with it. I don't want to just add to my kill count and get a few fancy weapons/armor pieces.

The story was basically "Go back to Ostagar, kill more Darkspawn, get a reward. Oh and if possible, burn the king's corpse because we like tossing people in a fire pit."

For the sake of brevity I'm just going to say that you can also leave him to the wolves.

RtO had a story that was more of a reference to a forgotten plot concept for DAO than an actual original story.

And meanwhile in Legacy they don't even bother setting up the plot at all. All of a sudden we're in a brown wasteland and Hawke's companions spend a good deal of dialogue trying to explain why. Some bandits attacked Hawke while they were traveling. That's the setup. What, just like all those other times? Good lord, who know how many Legacies we've missed out on because we didn't follow up on all those times we were attacked by dwarves in Darktown? Are you reading this, BioWare? There are sequels to be made.

Was it nice to find out some things about Celene and Cailan? Sure, but that's more of a bonus than the actual part of the story. The Darkspawn themselves have no use for those items, so there wasn't any reason to go there for those items.

Was it nice to find out some things about Hawke's dad? Sure, but--

Same, same.


Combat system meaning the animations? No, I happen to like those. Are they flawless? No. Are they better than DAO's animations? Oh god yes. I like the combat animations.

What is better about DA2's animations? I look at them and when I actually see an animation I see no fluidity like in Origins. Maybe they're too fast for me but most of the times I can't see if there's animation at all. Everyone seem to be teleporting everywhere. Constantly dashing movement.

Or do you mean the waves? Well, Origins had those too, but they at least made sense. A Blight has hordes of Darkspawn. But I'm pretty sure that Hawke's kill count is about the same as the Warden's. I don't like the waves, but at least they were used sparingly and implemented better in this DLC.

If Origins had waves they didn't materialize out of thin air.

Linear paths? Tell me, how were the maps in DAO non-linear? The Circle Tower was linear. It just had the illusion of non-linearity. DAO's maps were entirely linear. Sure you could derp around, but in the end you had to go in two directions. Forward and backward. But at least they gave you side quests, one that even has you going back a few areas.

You're back trying to justify a bad thing by saying a bad thing existed in the previous game too. Hint for you, it doesn't work like that. Also, when you name the Circle Tower as this DAO did it too excuse, I kind of groaned a little. A tower is a tower, rooms in a circle. How about the tutorial Ostagar? It's a large map and you're not confined to one pathway like you are at all times in DA2. Give me an example of an open map in Dragon Age 2.

choices being meaningless? Well then, choices were meaningless in Warden's Keep too. I picked between Avernus and Sophia, but the end result was the same. The Veil was mended. What if I want the Veil to be torn just so I can be a douchebag? I couldn't do that. But hey, I can at least spare Avernus and tell him to continue his research sans restrictions. That's meaningful. But that was the only meaningful choice.

Now you're back again. Nobody is saying Origins DLC is better than Legacy in any way. I'm certainly not saying anything like that. Drop it and focus. I'm saying Legacy retains a lot of the problems with DA2. Like the lack of choices. Heck, what is accomplished at the end of Legacy? Did it feel more like an interactive movie? You can choose how to word different things Hawke says but most of the time you can't choose what he says.

DAO had one thing DA2 didn't have. An illusion of choice. Occasionally you could make an actual choice.

Other way around, actually. DA2 is the illusion of choice. In Origins, the main quests have at least two choices, you can choose to recruit/leave/kill certain characters and you can complete the game in four different ways. I could go on but for the sake of brevity, which I love so much, I will choose not to. For brevity. Yeah. Meanwhile DA2 has you flip-flopping between templars and mages until the final battle where it's revealed that none of it actually mattered.

Also, who you sided with has an impact on the ending of the DLC. That's a meaningful choice right there. Hopefully, Bioware will make Janeka and Larius play out differently. Otherwise then it definitely becomes a meaningless choice. But as it stands, it isn't yet a meaningless choice.

I'll grant you this. It might come into play in Dragon Age 3. We'll have to see.