273 réponses à ce sujet

[Domdeegrpgc]

It's hardly ironic as there's a difference between deliberately misrepresenting someone's position for the purpose of refuting a non-existent argument and criticising someone's attitude. Somehow suggesting I held myself up as some kind of paragon (lol), with skills beyond measure.

Since you're right about it technically being possible to complete Insanity with any number of possible combinations I'll modify my statement. I've completed Insanity three times with a Vanguard and found it to be (while challenging as I said) only marginally more difficult to use (and dramatically more fun) than the other classes. I vastly prefer playing it over the more cover dependant classes like the Soldier and the Infiltrator since it's capable of a similar (if not greater) amount of damage that's only offset by a slight increase in operational difficulty.

A Vanguard using the Geth shotgun, copious amounts of melee attacks alongside the Kestrel/Strength Boost Pads armour is capable of causing a terrifying amount of damage and thanks to Charge can bring that damage to the opponent immediately.

Of course Charge will get you killed if you use it poorly on Insanity. Being out of cover for any class will get you killed almost instantaneously. You simply need to evaluate how much damage you're capable of inflicting and weigh it against the potential damage you'll receive. Once you strike that balance you only have to deal with the seconds between your Charge cooldowns. It's not a big deal.

I've spent a lot more time with the Vanguard than other classes and I honestly don't feel it's in need of that much alteration. Given my love for the class you'd imagine I'd be in favour of enhancements and improvements, no? To an extent I am, but one of the fundamental points in favour of the Vanguard to me is the intrinsic risk of using it. Buffing Charge to appease the players who simply cannot handle that risk would remove one of the core elements to my enjoyment.

There are so many classes to choose from and they each appeal to players differently. I'm not sure the Vanguard needs to somehow dilute it's unique identity to placate those players who are simply not suited to it.

Modifié par Domdeegrpgc, 04 août 2011 - 05:57 .

[adonfraz]

IMO, just fix the Charge glitches and make Shockwave a viable power for insanity. The Vanguards are getting a new power anyway. It could just be Lift Orb or something even better.

[Someone With Mass]

It sounds like the devs are having a blast with the Vanguard and its heavy melee + Charge in ME3.

[Lopake]

This sounds like a QQ thread for people who died playing vanguard.

[marshalleck]

Lopake wrote...

This sounds like a QQ thread for people who died playing vanguard.

That's pretty much what any thread suggesting buffs (not bug fixes, actual buffs) to the vanguard class boil down to. 

[robarcool]

Fata Morgana wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

robarcool wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

I'm very confused by this thread. Charge is probably one of the more OP powers in the game and Vanguards are nigh indestructible once it's maxed. Why does it need revisions?

Tried on insanity bro? Try it and once you reach collector ship or the thresher maww level, then you tell how you find it OP! Or just experience one of those moments when charge bugs out on you and while you were hoping to kill that enemy with ony a sliver of health left, he kills you instead!

Thresher maw level was easy on insanity. Or are you talking about how you can't use charge on the thresher maw itself?  That's hardly a flaw, you'd be insane to charge to the thresher maw.  Yeah, you have to take it down with weapons, the same as you do the human reaper. I don't see that as a flaw.

Honestly, the collector ship is ONLY difficult because of the cover bug (ie, being unable to target and charge enemies that you should be able to charge. Once you figure out how to work past the bug, you can dominate on the collector ship just like you do everywhere else.

Well, on collector ship, the only point I got stuck for a while was the pretorian. I was fine elsewhere. As for Thresher maw, I would say that charging it is of course stupid, I didn't mean that. I even said in my previous post that charging a boss won't help unless the level deisgn is good. I meant that there could be some compensation for not being able to use charge, for other classes are able to use their powers and thus are better equipped.

You can still use inferno ammo with the Thresher maw. Pull and shockwave are skills I never put any points into, anyway, since I never use them in any situation.  Not sure what skill you would like them to add here.  Once you get your bonus skill you can add reave which is the perfect support skill for situations like the Thresher Maw. You may quibble that that should be available to Vanguard from the begininning, but I really don't see Vanguard as a class that you want to start out new on. It's a class designed for people who already know the game and want something more exciting and challenging. 

Yeah. I myself played Vanguard after beating the game 12 times.

[Travie]

Someone With Mass wrote...

It sounds like the devs are having a blast with the Vanguard and its heavy melee + Charge in ME3.

Where you hear this?

[robarcool]

JaegerBane wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

robarcool wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

I'm very confused by this thread. Charge is probably one of the more OP powers in the game and Vanguards are nigh indestructible once it's maxed. Why does it need revisions?

Tried on insanity bro? Try it and once you reach collector ship or the thresher maww level, then you tell how you find it OP! Or just experience one of those moments when charge bugs out on you and while you were hoping to kill that enemy with ony a sliver of health left, he kills you instead!

I've beaten it on Insanity. It's not hard, and Charge is still ridiculously powerful. And are you really complaining about not being able to Charge a freakin' Thresher Maw??

You do have other powers and *gasp* weapons, you know that right? 

I've always been amused by this response. The fact that you can shoot your opponent doesn't somehow 'fix' issues with powers... particularly powers like Charge, which have nothing to do with doing direct damage. It's a bit like saying you can still walk if you've lost your hand - it's the definition of missing the point.

Charge is a cracking power, true, but if you honestly think it's overpowered, I'd question your understanding of the term. 'Overpowered' does not mean it serves a purpose. The issue is that it's so specialised that, in plenty of situations, it is of no use.

This wouldn't be such an issue if the vanguard had other powers to use that were effective.... but the don't. Which is precisely why the vanguard is such a one-trick pony.

Well, soldeir is a one trick pony too, but that trick works everywhere. But I do support your point that Charge has its limitations and ignoring them and calling it a 'feature' is just being evasive.
So the player can't use charge on enemies out of reachable areas. That is a feature. Wow!

[lazuli]

Travie wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It sounds like the devs are having a blast with the Vanguard and its heavy melee + Charge in ME3.

Where you hear this?

Check the twitter thread.  Religiously.

[Someone With Mass]

lazuli wrote...

Travie wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It sounds like the devs are having a blast with the Vanguard and its heavy melee + Charge in ME3.

Where you hear this?

Check the twitter thread.  Religiously.

That tweet was apparently deleted for some reason.

[robarcool]

Yezdigerd wrote...

I find it amazing that people consider non-chargeable enemies "poor level design". If there is one flaw in the ME2 power system it's the spamming of the classpower to the exclusion of all others.
that is the problem with the shared cooldown. one ability will be the best and you want to use it all the time, the exception will be when you can't. It would be interesting if mixings powers were a viable alternative.
but whatever, vanguard is the only class I can do repeat playthroughs on insanity with, all others bore me

Exactly sir. They could tweak charge or do something else for not being able to use charge for that situation. So either have level design that facilitates charge or tweak charge or provide some feasible alternative.

[didymos1120]

Someone With Mass wrote...

That tweet was apparently deleted for some reason.

What, you mean this one?

[Travie]

Someone With Mass wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Travie wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It sounds like the devs are having a blast with the Vanguard and its heavy melee + Charge in ME3.

Where you hear this?

Check the twitter thread.  Religiously.

That tweet was apparently deleted for some reason.

Suddenly I get the mental image of David Silverman walking in with a 'No Fun Allowed' sign, slowly making eye contact with everyone, then walking out again.

[Tigerman123]

CajNatalie wrote...

Since it's been mentioned a few times, but I've never been able to find an answer around... how do you beat the Charge bug during Collector platform battles (the one where you use Charge, the animation happens, but you stay right where you are)?

Stand back a bit from the cover or vault over it before you charge and it'll work properly

[Someone With Mass]

didymos1120 wrote...

What, you mean this one?

Huh. When I clicked on it before, it said that the page doesn't exist or has been deleted.

Oh well.

[snackrat]

lazuli wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Every class has it's weak points. Deal with it.

False.  What is the Soldier's weak point?

All of his powers are weapon related (ammo mods, bullet time). When he runs out of ammo, he's hosed.

[The Spamming Troll]

Karsciyin wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Every class has it's weak points. Deal with it.

False.  What is the Soldier's weak point?

All of his powers are weapon related (ammo mods, bullet time). When he runs out of ammo, he's hosed.

thats an impossibility. your bringing up something that NEVER happens to the soldier, but does happen to every other class fairly frequently. whats the adept do when he runs out of ammo? strip protections with mele?  theres no difference in one class VS another in terms of ammo supply, other then the fact that it most likely never happens withthe sodlier. i think your point is working against you.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 05 août 2011 - 05:38 .

[robarcool]

Karsciyin wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Every class has it's weak points. Deal with it.

False.  What is the Soldier's weak point?

All of his powers are weapon related (ammo mods, bullet time). When he runs out of ammo, he's hosed.

Yeah, so if you do run out of the massive clip of the mighty revenant, you are done. Oh wait, Soldier has snipers too. Oh, no sniper ammo, well he has shotguns and also pistols. That is a whole lot of ammo we are talking about. As the above poster said, that is impossible in the game unless you simply are firing without looking. Vanguard on the other hand is crewed if his shotgun runs out, which can be possible if you aren't careful in picking up ammo almost each time you kill an enemy. Well, back to topic, why I say charge needs revision? One, because it is buggy. Two, its style won't allow the player to use it as often as they can use other classes' powers. Hence the inanimate object charge ability.

Modifié par robarcool, 05 août 2011 - 05:45 .

[robarcool]

Doing my NG+ with vanguard on insanity and again, I feel that charge could use a little help from developers.

[snackrat]

robarcool wrote...

Karsciyin wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Every class has it's weak points. Deal with it.

False.  What is the Soldier's weak point?

All of his powers are weapon related (ammo mods, bullet time). When he runs out of ammo, he's hosed.

Yeah, so if you do run out of the massive clip of the mighty revenant, you are done. Oh wait, Soldier has snipers too. Oh, no sniper ammo, well he has shotguns and also pistols. That is a whole lot of ammo we are talking about. As the above poster said, that is impossible in the game unless you simply are firing without looking. Vanguard on the other hand is crewed if his shotgun runs out, which can be possible if you aren't careful in picking up ammo almost each time you kill an enemy. Well, back to topic, why I say charge needs revision? One, because it is buggy. Two, its style won't allow the player to use it as often as they can use other classes' powers. Hence the inanimate object charge ability.

On the higher difficulty levels, I found it very easy to run out of ammo, since the enemies were much hardier and moved around more - unless I was willing to break cover and pick up drops from enemies, exposing myself to their fire. Not everyone is the earthly manifestation of Christ in video games, and not everyone has ammo when several dozen vorcha and a bunch of krogan are bearing down on them at once while recruiting Mordin (not even having weapon upgrades!). As for the shotgun. I fail so hard at using it that I often found that, if I were in close range anyway, I'd just punch them. I prefer to fire accuracy weapons like the heavy pistol, and sniper at range.
Also, have you tried ever shooting close enemies with a sniper rifle when everything else it out? I feel motion sick. I'm not saying it's a weakness that cripples it - if it did, people would be here b****ing about that too. I'm saying it is there. Since all of the powers seem a variation of ammo, I find them very boring. And bullet time I only use for sniping, which infiltrator has AUTOMATICALLY every SINGLE TIME you look through the scope, so I prefer that.

Also, I'm not denying the charge needs a revision either. I'm just saying I prefer the classes that don't depend on ammo and can fire around cover. That and abilities like Tech Armour, which let me recharge sheilds in the middle of a battle, and when husks inevitably swamp me, fires a pulse to get them off'a my butt. Soldier, Vanguard, and Adept were the only classes I don't particularly enjoy, but I at least finished ME1 and ME2 once each with a soldier.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 05 août 2011 - 05:53 .

[robarcool]

Karsciyin wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Karsciyin wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Every class has it's weak points. Deal with it.

False.  What is the Soldier's weak point?

All of his powers are weapon related (ammo mods, bullet time). When he runs out of ammo, he's hosed.

Yeah, so if you do run out of the massive clip of the mighty revenant, you are done. Oh wait, Soldier has snipers too. Oh, no sniper ammo, well he has shotguns and also pistols. That is a whole lot of ammo we are talking about. As the above poster said, that is impossible in the game unless you simply are firing without looking. Vanguard on the other hand is crewed if his shotgun runs out, which can be possible if you aren't careful in picking up ammo almost each time you kill an enemy. Well, back to topic, why I say charge needs revision? One, because it is buggy. Two, its style won't allow the player to use it as often as they can use other classes' powers. Hence the inanimate object charge ability.

On the higher difficulty levels, I found it very easy to run out of ammo, since the enemies were much hardier and moved around more - unless I was willing to break cover and pick up drops from enemies, exposing myself to their fire. Not everyone is the earthly manifestation of Christ in video games, and not everyone has ammo when several dozen vorcha and a bunch of krogan are bearing down on them at once while recruiting Mordin (not even having weapon upgrades!). As for the shotgun. I fail so hard at using it that I often found that, if I were in close range anyway, I'd just punch them. I prefer to fire accuracy weapons like the heavy pistol, and sniper at range.
Also, have you tried ever shooting close enemies with a sniper rifle when everything else it out? I feel motion sick. I'm not saying it's a weakness that cripples it - if it did, people would be here b****ing about that too. I'm saying it is there. Since all of the powers seem a variation of ammo, I find them very boring. And bullet time I only use for sniping, which infiltrator has AUTOMATICALLY every SINGLE TIME you look through the scope, so I prefer that.

Also, I'm not denying the charge needs a revision either. I'm just saying I prefer the classes that don't depend on ammo and can fire around cover. That and abilities like Tech Armour, which let me recharge sheilds in the middle of a battle, and when husks inevitably swamp me, fires a pulse to get them off'a my butt. Soldier, Vanguard, and Adept were the only classes I don't particularly enjoy, but I at least finished ME1 and ME2 once each with a soldier.

Never happened to me in my 11 soldier playthroughs (1 on harcode, 10 on insanity). Also, I am using widow for my 12th soldier and even then ammo isn't a problem. No sir! I would go as far to say that if there was a level where you don't get any ammo refill, soldier will survive longest.

[Fata Morgana]

 Not a fan of Vanguard?  Can your favorite class do this?

[who would know]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

Please disregard this thread BioWare.

[robarcool]

Fata Morgana wrote...

 Not a fan of Vanguard?  Can your favorite class do this?

Well, vangurad isn't my favorite class, but that doesn't mean I don't like it. What I want is it to be bug free and better suited for all situations. As for "who would know"'s post, if you are really content with charge as it is my friend, don't use the new features and you are fine! Just don't come and spam here.