273 réponses à ce sujet

[robarcool]

Fata Morgana wrote...

Though a possible solution to that is allowing the skill to work on non-hostile targets, even on non-living targets (like crates or what have you).

 

Exactly what I want.

[Fata Morgana]

If you don't like Vanguard, it just means you're not cool enough for Vanguard. It's OK, not everyone is.

Vangod forever.

[Bogsnot1]

robarcool wrote...
When it works, it is awesome. But you can't use it to break away from highly tense situations.

Thats why its called Charge, and not Retreat.

[robarcool]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

robarcool wrote...
When it works, it is awesome. But you can't use it to break away from highly tense situations.

Thats why its called Charge, and not Retreat.

Facepalm

[robarcool]

Fata Morgana wrote...

If you don't like Vanguard, it just means you're not cool enough for Vanguard. It's OK, not everyone is.

Vangod forever.

I didn't say I dislike Vanguard. That is not the point of the thread at all. If you really want to contribute to the thread, say something relevant.

[Fata Morgana]

robarcool wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

If you don't like Vanguard, it just means you're not cool enough for Vanguard. It's OK, not everyone is.

Vangod forever.

I didn't say I dislike Vanguard. That is not the point of the thread at all. If you really want to contribute to the thread, say something relevant.

See my previous post before that one, humorless.

[robarcool]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

robarcool wrote...
When it works, it is awesome. But you can't use it to break away from highly tense situations.

Thats why its called Charge, and not Retreat.

BTW, what will you call Tela Vasir's Charge, especially when she charges away from Shepard? It is not called retreat then. It is still called charge!

[robarcool]

Fata Morgana wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

If you don't like Vanguard, it just means you're not cool enough for Vanguard. It's OK, not everyone is.

Vangod forever.

I didn't say I dislike Vanguard. That is not the point of the thread at all. If you really want to contribute to the thread, say something relevant.

See my previous post before that one, humorless.

Yeah, point taken. But then who are you aiming it at?

[lazuli]

Yeah, Charge bugs out from time to time. If you play enough though, you can start to anticipate the glitches and avoid them. For instance, hop over cover before Charging on the Collector Platforms. Or don't try to Charge enemies when your back is to a wall.

And I agree that there are certain fights that don't seem to take the Vanguard into account. The Reaper Larva and the Thresher Maw come to mind, but Praetorians and the Oculus also pose problems.

I don't think Charge itself needs revision. It's a solid power that rewards aggressive play, and it's a blast to use. Sure, the glitches should be ironed out. But I think the problems with Charge can easily be rectified by better level design and boss mechanics. Lair of the Shadow Broker has engaging boss fights that are a breeze for the Vanguard, for instance.

[LilyasAvalon]

I love being a Vanguard, it makes me feel like a frickin' Jedi. @_@

...But I do agree, charge needs better revising for ME3.

[Bogsnot1]

robarcool wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

robarcool wrote...
When it works, it is awesome. But you can't use it to break away from highly tense situations.

Thats why its called Charge, and not Retreat.

BTW, what will you call Tela Vasir's Charge, especially when she charges away from Shepard? It is not called retreat then. It is still called charge!

Edit: not all of it showed up for some reason.

I call it annoying, and although it has many charge like properties, Vasir doesnt actually use it as a charge. At least, I havent seen her do so.

The only problem with the "charge to cover" that a few people have called for, is how to implement it. Exactly which side of the cover do you want it to snap to? What happens if your crosshair is 1 pixel out, and you go to the wrong side, and you are still taking fire, and die? The logistics of going exactly where you want, can only be dealt with accurately by pausing via power wheel, which breaks the pulse-poundnig action that the vanguard class generates.
Besides, if you want to use cover, play an Infiltrator. Real warriors dont need cover. 

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 29 juillet 2011 - 05:14 .

[robarcool]

lazuli wrote...

Yeah, Charge bugs out from time to time. If you play enough though, you can start to anticipate the glitches and avoid them. For instance, hop over cover before Charging on the Collector Platforms. Or don't try to Charge enemies when your back is to a wall.

And I agree that there are certain fights that don't seem to take the Vanguard into account. The Reaper Larva and the Thresher Maw come to mind, but Praetorians and the Oculus also pose problems.

I don't think Charge itself needs revision. It's a solid power that rewards aggressive play, and it's a blast to use. Sure, the glitches should be ironed out. But I think the problems with Charge can easily be rectified by better level design and boss mechanics. Lair of the Shadow Broker has engaging boss fights that are a breeze for the Vanguard, for instance.

But maybe it is easier to revise charge and add the abilty to charge to inanimate objects (as pointed by Fata Morgana) than redesign levels (they seem to have been pretty much done, judging from the E3 and comic con demo).

[Someone With Mass]

I've read some tweets which says that the Vanguard is getting at least one new power and the existing ones are getting worked on for the class to feel fresh.

[CaptREDKangaroo]

lazuli wrote...

Yeah, Charge bugs out from time to time. If you play enough though, you can start to anticipate the glitches and avoid them. For instance, hop over cover before Charging on the Collector Platforms. Or don't try to Charge enemies when your back is to a wall.

And I agree that there are certain fights that don't seem to take the Vanguard into account. The Reaper Larva and the Thresher Maw come to mind, but Praetorians and the Oculus also pose problems.

I don't think Charge itself needs revision. It's a solid power that rewards aggressive play, and it's a blast to use. Sure, the glitches should be ironed out. But I think the problems with Charge can easily be rectified by better level design and boss mechanics. Lair of the Shadow Broker has engaging boss fights that are a breeze for the Vanguard, for instance.

THIS! Yes, charge has bugs, which SHOULD be fixed in ME3. But some of the gameplay mechanics will prob still make charge unusable in certain situations, but the ability itself needs very little to no revision, minus ironing out the bugs, and with the added verticality of ME3, the level design hopefully makes charge even more cool but could mean more potential bugs if current ones aren't fixed.

It's very easy imo to avoid the bugs/glitches as Azuli said... doing so limits 95% of charge bug death even on Insanity. Of course - that still doesn't negate such things should be revised/fixed =) But I just don't want it toyed with too much as an ability, as it just is the coolest power.

Modifié par CaptREDKangaroo, 29 juillet 2011 - 05:13 .

[robarcool]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

robarcool wrote...
When it works, it is awesome. But you can't use it to break away from highly tense situations.

Thats why its called Charge, and not Retreat.

BTW, what will you call Tela Vasir's Charge, especially when she charges away from Shepard? It is not called retreat then. It is still called charge!

Edit: not all of it showed up for some reason.

I call it annoying, and although it has many charge like properties, Vasir doesnt actually use it as a charge. At least, I havent seen her do so.

The only problem with the "charge to cover" that a few people have called for, is how to implement it. Exactly which side of the cover do you want it to snap to? What happens if your crosshair is 1 pixel out, and you go to the wrong side, and you are still taking fire, and die? The logistics of going exactly where you want, can only be dealt with accurately by pausing via power wheel, which breaks the pulse-poundnig action that the vanguard class generates.
Besides, if you want to use cover, play an Infiltrator. Real warriors dont need cover. 

Okay sir, you are a warrior. I am just a ME player who wants some better balanced gameplay!

[Fata Morgana]

robarcool wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

robarcool wrote...
When it works, it is awesome. But you can't use it to break away from highly tense situations.

Thats why its called Charge, and not Retreat.

BTW, what will you call Tela Vasir's Charge, especially when she charges away from Shepard? It is not called retreat then. It is still called charge!

Edit: not all of it showed up for some reason.

I call it annoying, and although it has many charge like properties, Vasir doesnt actually use it as a charge. At least, I havent seen her do so.

The only problem with the "charge to cover" that a few people have called for, is how to implement it. Exactly which side of the cover do you want it to snap to? What happens if your crosshair is 1 pixel out, and you go to the wrong side, and you are still taking fire, and die? The logistics of going exactly where you want, can only be dealt with accurately by pausing via power wheel, which breaks the pulse-poundnig action that the vanguard class generates.
Besides, if you want to use cover, play an Infiltrator. Real warriors dont need cover. 

Okay sir, you are a warrior. I am just a ME player who wants some better balanced gameplay!

I want the bugs ironed out so that there's no more accidental death on Vanguard. But I don't think it 'needs more 'balance' necessarily, because even though the 'charge inanimate objects' would be cool (I don't care about charging to cover; just charging away from an enemy is helpful sometimes), it would also make Vanguard the most overpowered class in the game. You're already playing a biotic god, no need to make all the other classes feel even more jealous.

[E-Type XR]

To be fair, if you're not dying, you're not playing the Vanguard right. Also, Charge has a mountain of pathing issues. Letting us Charge wherever will only compound on these issues.

[Fata Morgana]

E-Type XR wrote...

To be fair, if you're not dying, you're not playing the Vanguard right. Also, Charge has a mountain of pathing issues. Letting us Charge wherever will only compound on these issues.

Oh, I know. I don't mind the deaths that come about because you charged the wrong enemy, or to a large group of enemines that you couldn't take. That's all part of playing Vanguard.

I just don't like the deaths that happen because you hit charge to an enemy within your line of site, and the game didn't let you charge. Though one of the interesting things I found out about using Charge on the collector platforms is that even though it doesn't send you to the enemy, it does fill up your shields, so still useful.

[Bogsnot1]

I am addicted to medigel though, and using reave to suck the life from an enemy to replenish yuor own health is a somewhat satisfying reward.

That aside, there is still the logistical problem of coding a "charge to cover" mechanic. If the power wheel pause isnt suitable, then the only other option I can think of would possibly be a "boomerang" charge, where you charge in, knock em down, and a few seconds later (enough for a couple of shotty rounds and/or an omniblade attack) get automatically returned to the spot you charged from.
Might be feasible, but due to its nature, I would call for it to be severely weaker compared to a standard charge, as you would have to reserve the biotic power gfor the return run.

[Captain Crash]

It would be cool if you could tactically charge into crates. It makes it more tactical too because crates break very easily (and certainly will after a charge) so its a one use thing. It will allow for greater use of the battlefield and will make you think how you would use the layout to your advantage. I would certainly welcome it.

[CaptREDKangaroo]

Fata Morgana wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

robarcool wrote...
When it works, it is awesome. But you can't use it to break away from highly tense situations.

Thats why its called Charge, and not Retreat.

BTW, what will you call Tela Vasir's Charge, especially when she charges away from Shepard? It is not called retreat then. It is still called charge!

Edit: not all of it showed up for some reason.

I call it annoying, and although it has many charge like properties, Vasir doesnt actually use it as a charge. At least, I havent seen her do so.

The only problem with the "charge to cover" that a few people have called for, is how to implement it. Exactly which side of the cover do you want it to snap to? What happens if your crosshair is 1 pixel out, and you go to the wrong side, and you are still taking fire, and die? The logistics of going exactly where you want, can only be dealt with accurately by pausing via power wheel, which breaks the pulse-poundnig action that the vanguard class generates.
Besides, if you want to use cover, play an Infiltrator. Real warriors dont need cover. 

Okay sir, you are a warrior. I am just a ME player who wants some better balanced gameplay!

I want the bugs ironed out so that there's no more accidental death on Vanguard. But I don't think it 'needs more 'balance' necessarily, because even though the 'charge inanimate objects' would be cool (I don't care about charging to cover; just charging away from an enemy is helpful sometimes), it would also make Vanguard the most overpowered class in the game. You're already playing a biotic god, no need to make all the other classes feel even more jealous.

I think charging to cover is not needed as said - it's not what charge is about and would make it overpowered for sure and not needed - charging to another enemy to recharge your shields in the nick of time and just using tactics works it's been well proven. Charge is all ABOUT that intensity. Now that being said there are times needed for cover and enemies... but that's part of it. Charging to cover just would make it boring and little thought put into it...

Chagre enemy, charge cover, charge enemy, charge cover, charge enemy...... *yawn*. And even if you kept up close knowing you could charge to cover just would make the fight not intense at all imo, VG is high risk reward.

I'm not against something more like an certain objects or type of target, but it'd need to be balanced. I don't think VG or charge is unbalanced now esp fixing the bugs.

[robarcool]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

I am addicted to medigel though, and using reave to suck the life from an enemy to replenish yuor own health is a somewhat satisfying reward.

That aside, there is still the logistical problem of coding a "charge to cover" mechanic. If the power wheel pause isnt suitable, then the only other option I can think of would possibly be a "boomerang" charge, where you charge in, knock em down, and a few seconds later (enough for a couple of shotty rounds and/or an omniblade attack) get automatically returned to the spot you charged from.
Might be feasible, but due to its nature, I would call for it to be severely weaker compared to a standard charge, as you would have to reserve the biotic power gfor the return run.

I am talking about ability to charge at inanimate objects (by Fata Morgana), which will mean that you point your crosshair at that object and charge. No confusion as to which side of cover you want to end up on. Just end the charge at the object. I am also referring to only the objects in the accessible area in the combat field nad not the unreachable ones (by game design).

[Fata Morgana]

robarcool wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

I am addicted to medigel though, and using reave to suck the life from an enemy to replenish yuor own health is a somewhat satisfying reward.

That aside, there is still the logistical problem of coding a "charge to cover" mechanic. If the power wheel pause isnt suitable, then the only other option I can think of would possibly be a "boomerang" charge, where you charge in, knock em down, and a few seconds later (enough for a couple of shotty rounds and/or an omniblade attack) get automatically returned to the spot you charged from.
Might be feasible, but due to its nature, I would call for it to be severely weaker compared to a standard charge, as you would have to reserve the biotic power gfor the return run.

I am talking about ability to charge at inanimate objects (by Fata Morgana), which will mean that you point your crosshair at that object and charge. No confusion as to which side of cover you want to end up on. Just end the charge at the object. I am also referring to only the objects in the accessible area in the combat field nad not the unreachable ones (by game design).

Yeah, this would be a pretty awesome mechanic. It wouldn't even have to apply to all inanimate objects, only to those 'fragile crates' or (if you're feeling especially suicidal) 'explosive crates', both of which you can normally target with biotic powers such as overload and even reave.

But I'm kind of going back and forth on it, I would need to play the character to know if this would be overpowered or not. I have a feeling it would be, otherwise they would have already included it in 2. But maybe they just didn't think of it?

Modifié par Fata Morgana, 29 juillet 2011 - 05:38 .

[JamieCOTC]

In ME3 Vanguard will be the same, but better. 

Whatever that means.  It would be nice to charge to cover though. 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 29 juillet 2011 - 05:40 .

[Fata Morgana]

JamieCOTC wrote...

In ME3 Vanguard will be the same, but better. 

Whatever that means.  It would be nice to charge to cover though. 

The more I read "charge to cover", the more distasteful I find it.

No. Vanguard is not about cover.  Charging to crates, sure, but not cover. ugh.