273 réponses à ce sujet

[robarcool]

crimzontearz wrote...

wanna see broken invisibility? play crysis 1/2

Hey, those are two of my favorite shooters (at least Crysis 1. Not really liked 2 that much). Well, it is not in the topic, so I won't say anything further.

Modifié par robarcool, 30 juillet 2011 - 01:11 .

[Fata Morgana]

crimzontearz wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
and seriously.............love the name

Thanks

actually in my country  we use that very name to indicate that water-mirage you sometime can see on the cement during a hot day

Well, I am half Italian. 

[Fata Morgana]

Beck57 wrote...

The Vanguard is busted to some extent. Shotguns have no range and no ammo to speak of. 3 shoots and you have to reload is a little bs. 8, 10, 12 these are acceptable for a shotguns ammo supply, but 3 shoots... really? My friend was like, "well i hope i can kill that armored guy in 3 hits or I'm going to be ****ed". And the charge needs to be more like Shadowruns teleport so you can get in, jack up people, and get out.

Three shots are more than enough when administered directly to the face. ESPECIALLY if you're carrying the Eviscerator, aka the mobile war crime. A husk will full armor goes down in two shots (that's on hardcore, I'm about to start my Insanity run, so we'll see). Works even better if your sqaud warps away the armor, then you just need 1, maybe 2 shots to take your enemies out. 

Honestly, the infiltrator can make a better vanguard than the vanguard. Invisibility will let you get close and get away. I've can jack up enemy so much more efficiently with an escape plan. On top of that you can reload while invisible so the shotgun sucks less. Its amazing to see the difference in ability.

You, sir, are completely missing the point of Vanguard and how to play it.

[crimzontearz]

Fata Morgana wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
and seriously.............love the name

Thanks

actually in my country  we use that very name to indicate that water-mirage you sometime can see on the cement during a hot day

Well, I am half Italian. 

I am fully italian -s-


ahem.....anyways we are digressing

[konfeta]

Honestly, the infiltrator can make a better vanguard than the vanguard. Invisibility will let you get close and get away. I've can jack up enemy so much more efficiently with an escape plan. On top of that you can reload while invisible so the shotgun sucks less. Its amazing to see the difference in ability.

I have to agree with honorable Fate Morgana. The Infiltrator has to run away. The Vanguard doesn't. That is a very amazing difference in ability.

[Beck57]

Fata Morgana wrote...

ESPECIALLY if you're carrying the Eviscerator, aka the mobile war crime.

Nice!



All my past arguments are about the INSANITY play through
with whatever.



Good luck with the point blank shotgun on some guy while his
men are filling you full of holes. Leaving cover in insanity is the fastest way
to become Swiss cheese there is. You can kill his allies first then take a guy
out with charge and shotgun but that’s just depressing. I am not saying that
the Vanguard is bad. It is just not as good as other setups
that can acheve the same thing.



And who runs away as an infiltrator! There are ether whistling
through the holes in their head when I get there, or their like, “where did he
go (shotgun to back of head) ****.” Then I kill him, laugh, and leave.

I don’t ever run though it’s just not my style.

[Reptillius]

robarcool wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

If anything the cloak should be improved so that it doesn't wear off as soon as you fire a weapon.

It only wears off for heavy weapons that require charging time. I played as infiltrator and used SMG many times while cloaked without getting uncloaked before 6 seconds.

I have to agree. I've been known to pull off 2 or 3 scoped shots with a sniper rifle before the cloak wears off. Usually popping the cloak just as I'm sticking my head out and starting to use the scope to target the enemy.

[robarcool]

Beck57 wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

ESPECIALLY if you're carrying the Eviscerator, aka the mobile war crime.

Nice!



All my past arguments are about the INSANITY play through
with whatever.



Good luck with the point blank shotgun on some guy while his
men are filling you full of holes. Leaving cover in insanity is the fastest way
to become Swiss cheese there is. You can kill his allies first then take a guy
out with charge and shotgun but that’s just depressing. I am not saying that
the Vanguard is bad. It is just not as good as other setups
that can acheve the same thing.



And who runs away as an infiltrator! There are ether whistling
through the holes in their head when I get there, or their like, “where did he
go (shotgun to back of head) ****.” Then I kill him, laugh, and leave.

I don’t ever run though it’s just not my style.

Yeah, but that is the kind of thrill in charge. My insanity vanguard has recruited everyone except Legion, meaning that my playthrough is nearly complete. From the experience so far, I can pretty much agree that on insanity, you cannot just charge whoever you want unless Bioware also gives you the power of stopping bullets in air while charging! (referring to Matrix here)

Modifié par robarcool, 30 juillet 2011 - 06:54 .

[lazuli]

robarcool wrote...

Yeah, but that is the kind of thrill in charge. My insanity vanguard has recruited everyone except Legion, meaning that my playthrough is nearly complete. From the experience so far, I can pretty much agree that on insanity, you cannot just charge whoever you want unless Bioware also gives you the power of stopping bullets in air while charging! (referring to Matrix here)

It gets easier as you gain experience and progress through the game.  A level 30 Vanguard with all of the necessary upgrades has almost nothing to fear.  Well, except for the Thresher Maw and other out of reach foes.  Or not.

I still say that improved level design and boss mechanics are all that Charge really needs.  Sure, added flexbility/mobility would be a lot of fun, but it might be impractical.  In the end, I don't think it's necessary.

[marshalleck]

Beck57 wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

ESPECIALLY if you're carrying the Eviscerator, aka the mobile war crime.

Nice!



All my past arguments are about the INSANITY play through
with whatever.



Good luck with the point blank shotgun on some guy while his
men are filling you full of holes. Leaving cover in insanity is the fastest way
to become Swiss cheese there is. You can kill his allies first then take a guy
out with charge and shotgun but that’s just depressing. I am not saying that
the Vanguard is bad. It is just not as good as other setups
that can acheve the same thing.



And who runs away as an infiltrator! There are ether whistling
through the holes in their head when I get there, or their like, “where did he
go (shotgun to back of head) ****.” Then I kill him, laugh, and leave.

I don’t ever run though it’s just not my style.

If your vanguard is dying after he leaves cover, it's because you've set him up improperly. Charge, used correctly, can be used in rapid succession to refill your shields well before enemies will have time to take you down. 

And yes, even on insanity. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 juillet 2011 - 05:54 .

[Fata Morgana]

Beck57 wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

ESPECIALLY if you're carrying the Eviscerator, aka the mobile war crime.

Nice!



All my past arguments are about the INSANITY play through
with whatever.



Good luck with the point blank shotgun on some guy while his
men are filling you full of holes. Leaving cover in insanity is the fastest way
to become Swiss cheese there is. You can kill his allies first then take a guy
out with charge and shotgun but that’s just depressing. I am not saying that
the Vanguard is bad. It is just not as good as other setups
that can acheve the same thing.



And who runs away as an infiltrator! There are ether whistling
through the holes in their head when I get there, or their like, “where did he
go (shotgun to back of head) ****.” Then I kill him, laugh, and leave.

I don’t ever run though it’s just not my style.

Vanguard is better as you level up, obviously, and can't be as aggressive on earlier levels, but once charge & and the class skill are maxed, you're gold.  Yes, even on Insanity (doing my Vanguard insanity run now).

Have a squaddie warp away the armor, charge to a couple of enemies, first one dies on impact or needs a shotgun to the face, second one takes a couple of shots. By then you've taken some shots from the other enemies in the room, yes, but your biotic charge is ready again. So you use your squaddies warp on the next group, charge to them (halfway filling your shields, thus taking care of the damage you took), another couple of shotguns to the face. Etc, for as long as you are ballsy enough to continue.  Sometimes by the time you clear the room, you just have a sliver of health left - that's actually part of what makes playing Vanguard such a rush.

None of the other classes are like Vanguard. You are literally a biotic god dominating the battlefield. 

[sg1fan75]

Agreed much needed.

[Pulletlamer]

I just want to charge into cover. There was a thread about it but I can't find. It would be an awesome addition and would make the charge power more tactical.

Also I hope they fix the "can't get a lock" bugs. That's top level priority.

[robarcool]

Pulletlamer wrote...

I just want to charge into cover. There was a thread about it but I can't find. It would be an awesome addition and would make the charge power more tactical.

Also I hope they fix the "can't get a lock" bugs. That's top level priority.

As previously discussed, charging into cover could be somewhat confusing as the game will interpret which side of cover you want to be and it may not always end up your way. The suggested change is to provide the ability to target inanimate objects like crates and charge, which will get Shepard out of too hot to handle situations.

[crimzontearz]

Yes....as said before Vanguard needs to be able to charge anythere on the battlefield. That why Tela Vasir was such ann awesome enemy

[The Spamming Troll]

Fata Morgana wrote...

Vanguard is better as you level up, obviously, and can't be as aggressive on earlier levels, but once charge & and the class skill are maxed, you're gold.  Yes, even on Insanity (doing my Vanguard insanity run now).

really, as soon as you get 10 points into charge, your golden. basic pull and one point in inferno ammo can get you a long way with the vangaurd. you might not have the DLC weapons so your shotgun wont be as deadly untill you stumble into one. thats prolly the only thing youd notice changing for the vangaurd, atleast for me.

[Pulletlamer]

robarcool wrote...

As previously discussed, charging into cover could be somewhat confusing as the game will interpret which side of cover you want to be and it may not always end up your way. The suggested change is to provide the ability to target inanimate objects like crates and charge, which will get Shepard out of too hot to handle situations.

Oh, well, what a shame then. Well that part still looks awesome.

Charging crates and the like seems like a viable solution. It would make charge a lot more tactical.

[lazuli]

Pulletlamer wrote...

robarcool wrote...

As previously discussed, charging into cover could be somewhat confusing as the game will interpret which side of cover you want to be and it may not always end up your way. The suggested change is to provide the ability to target inanimate objects like crates and charge, which will get Shepard out of too hot to handle situations.

Oh, well, what a shame then. Well that part still looks awesome.

Charging crates and the like seems like a viable solution. It would make charge a lot more tactical.

It also seems lame.  Charging to enemies or boxes strikes me as decidedly less cool than just blasting from one enemy to the next.  Maybe it's just me.

[E-Type XR]

I'd like Shepard sneezing to kill everything in the room.

Ain't gonna happen.

(Seriously, the whole point of Charge is the risk. If your not a good enough player to tactically plan your Charges, then you don't deserve a get out of jail free card. Plus, it would make the Vanguard as broken as the ME1 Adapt)

[LPPrince]

Vanguard is high risk, high reward.

Its not supposed to be safe. You're not supposed to spend ages in cover or worry about getting out of a fight.

You go in, kill everything, and move on. You don't go in, kill a few, get out.

That completely saps the fun and point behind the Vanguard.

[CaptREDKangaroo]

LPPrince wrote...

Vanguard is high risk, high reward.

Its not supposed to be safe. You're not supposed to spend ages in cover or worry about getting out of a fight.

You go in, kill everything, and move on. You don't go in, kill a few, get out.

That completely saps the fun and point behind the Vanguard.

Yeah... seriously, if you fully Level Charge (Heavy), know your enemies, etc. you don't need to cover. Charge to cover defeats what VG is about, where's the risk if you charge in and can charge back out and hide? Charge enemy to enemy, tactically, recharge shields and that's how you survive, you seriously don't need to charge to cover. It'd be overpowered then, and it'd be boring. Yeah, there are occassions you need to cover, or can't charge an enemy, but doesn't mean should be able to charge to any cover from anywhere.

Charge needs targetting bug fixes, and adaptation to the new ME3 level design, but the ability itself is perfectly fine otherwise. Charging to inantimate objects, seems like a poorman's charge to cover to me... and could be abused, given how they're spread out through a level you could conceivably avoid enemies entirely. (already could in certain instances in ME2).

Modifié par CaptREDKangaroo, 30 juillet 2011 - 08:24 .

[Quething]

Charging boxes wouldn't really help. To make the programming feasible, it'd have to be a destructive use that worked only to smash up destructible boxes (the way Throw, Shockwave, etc currently do). Thus, an area with no destructible cover is an area you can't charge to. Thus, since the game has no way to be sure that you haven't already destroyed all the destructible cover in an area.... it can't let you charge people on ledges because it still can't be sure you can charge back. So you're still going to have unreachable enemies against which your signature power is useless, like the thresher and human reaper.

Vanguards are simply not a well-designed class. I say this as someone whose main is a vanguard and who will let you take Charge away when you pry it from my cold, dead hands - it is an amazing power, even as it is now, with about 10% of enemies totally impossible to use it on due to level design or charge bugs - so understand that I say it out of love, but it's true. They don't synergize well (shockwave interferes with charge, cryo interferes with pull, inferno+charge is the only good fit) and they're much too specialized for close combat, limiting them to a single playstyle if they want to maximize their efficiency in a way no other class is limited.

Allowing us to carry snipers as part of our default loadout from the beginning of the game is a big step forward in ME3, but the ultimate solution would require a minor rework of the vanguard powerset to restore the "soldier/biotic hybrid" concept. Infiltrators can currently choose between powerful weapon-oriented damage gameplay (with the additional sub-choice of sniper range or melee range play), or powerful defense-stripping and crowd control gameplay. Basically, they can be Legion, Kasumi, Mordin or Garrus. Vanguards should have the same versatility, and be able to be Samara, Grunt or Thane (right now we can only be Grunt, though I must say we're way more awesome at it than infiltrators are at being Legion).

Modifié par Quething, 30 juillet 2011 - 08:34 .

[crimzontearz]

lazuli wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

robarcool wrote...

As previously discussed, charging into cover could be somewhat confusing as the game will interpret which side of cover you want to be and it may not always end up your way. The suggested change is to provide the ability to target inanimate objects like crates and charge, which will get Shepard out of too hot to handle situations.

Oh, well, what a shame then. Well that part still looks awesome.

Charging crates and the like seems like a viable solution. It would make charge a lot more tactical.

It also seems lame.  Charging to enemies or boxes strikes me as decidedly less cool than just blasting from one enemy to the next.  Maybe it's just me.

let me give you an example, Charing only enemies is like using a knife ONLY to slice bread when there are so many other things you can do with it

[robarcool]

crimzontearz wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

robarcool wrote...

As previously discussed, charging into cover could be somewhat confusing as the game will interpret which side of cover you want to be and it may not always end up your way. The suggested change is to provide the ability to target inanimate objects like crates and charge, which will get Shepard out of too hot to handle situations.

Oh, well, what a shame then. Well that part still looks awesome.

Charging crates and the like seems like a viable solution. It would make charge a lot more tactical.

It also seems lame.  Charging to enemies or boxes strikes me as decidedly less cool than just blasting from one enemy to the next.  Maybe it's just me.

let me give you an example, Charing only enemies is like using a knife ONLY to slice bread when there are so many other things you can do with it

+1

[lazuli]

Quething wrote...
Vanguards should have the same versatility, and be able to be Samara, Grunt or Thane (right now we can only be Grunt, though I must say we're way more awesome at it than infiltrators are at being Legion).

I don't really understand where you're going with this.  Why an Infiltrator would ever want to mimic Legion's terrible build is beyond me.

I'd like for the focus to remain on close quarters combat for the Vanguard in ME3, not a return to the rather stale ME1 version.