273 réponses à ce sujet

[robarcool]

Fata Morgana wrote...

Quething wrote...

Charging boxes wouldn't really help. To make the programming feasible, it'd have to be a destructive use that worked only to smash up destructible boxes (the way Throw, Shockwave, etc currently do). Thus, an area with no destructible cover is an area you can't charge to. Thus, since the game has no way to be sure that you haven't already destroyed all the destructible cover in an area.... it can't let you charge people on ledges because it still can't be sure you can charge back. So you're still going to have unreachable enemies against which your signature power is useless, like the thresher and human reaper..

So?  Charging destructible boxes still has strategic value.  I'm OK with some enemies being unreachable in game, that doesn't bother me very much.

Yeah. It is fine if we can't charge to the unreachable areas. If implemented, it will be really annoying if the enemy in the unreachable area was the last one on the field and you can't get to the reachable zone again since nothing is left to charge at.

[marshalleck]

vanguard doesn't blow on insanity, it's just you

[robarcool]

pablodurando wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

alot of people seem to forget that the vanguard is alot more than just a charge bot....

Charge is the only draw of the Vanguard, without charge the vanguard would hardly ever be used.

+1

[Luigitornado]

I'd love to charge into cover...

[Quething]

robarcool wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

Quething wrote...

Charging boxes wouldn't really help. To make the programming feasible, it'd have to be a destructive use that worked only to smash up destructible boxes (the way Throw, Shockwave, etc currently do). Thus, an area with no destructible cover is an area you can't charge to. Thus, since the game has no way to be sure that you haven't already destroyed all the destructible cover in an area.... it can't let you charge people on ledges because it still can't be sure you can charge back. So you're still going to have unreachable enemies against which your signature power is useless, like the thresher and human reaper..

So?  Charging destructible boxes still has strategic value.  I'm OK with some enemies being unreachable in game, that doesn't bother me very much.

Yeah. It is fine if we can't charge to the unreachable areas. If implemented, it will be really annoying if the enemy in the unreachable area was the last one on the field and you can't get to the reachable zone again since nothing is left to charge at.

If you have less issue with unchargable enemies than you do with a lack of strategic Charge use, you're playing a different vanguard than I am. Charging, once, a single, static item that will always be in the exact same place as determined by some level designer, compared to charging, as many times as you can cooldown, any NPC in any position as determined by the flow of battle, the difficulty level and your ability to flank and flush enemies.... I mean, I suppose yes, it does add *some* strategic element, but only to the same extent that giving us one new eye color in character generation would add some customization. Compared to what's already there the increase is minor at best, and unlike adding a new eye color, the development cost would be prohibitive (as if it's not buggy enough already, let's add a dozen more potential points of failure to have to fix ). You're just not getting enough gameplay bang for that kind of programming buck.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

They could allow you to charge into areas you can order your squad to go.... doesn't sound like there'd be much work adapting it.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 31 juillet 2011 - 05:04 .

[shenlonzero]

It would be nice if the biotic charge worked like it was originally said to work. The Spectre you face in LOTSB uses it to traverse the playing field unlike Shepard who requires a target.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Vesir had a rediculous recovery time for her charge... would be awesome if the Vanguard got their Adrenaline Burst abiltiy back so they could do something similar.

[who would know]

Read this thread.

Anyone who suggests a Tela Vasir-style charge for Shep misunderstands the concept and balance behind the Vanguard.

No, you can't use charge to break away from highly tense situations. Yes, Vanguard is tougher to master. And no, charge does not require serious revision.

[robarcool]

Read the discussion in this thread and "You would Know" !

[marshalleck]

who would know wrote...

Read this thread.

Anyone who suggests a Tela Vasir-style charge for Shep misunderstands the concept and balance behind the Vanguard.

No, you can't use charge to break away from highly tense situations. Yes, Vanguard is tougher to master. And no, charge does not require serious revision.

Indeed. If Tela Vasir used Charge correctly, she wouldn't be dead now.

[LPPrince]

robarcool wrote...

Kabanya101 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

This is how you play a Vanguard-

Two Battles-Vanguard vs. Three YMIR Mechs

I love how one of the comments I got on the video was, "Ever heard of cover?"

My response- "I play a Vanguard, WE DON'T NEED COVER."

That is why I completely resent the Vanguard class. Aside from Insanity, which it blows on, on any other difficulty you don't need cover. It becomes absolutely unstoppable, when the strongest class, Soldier, is left defenseless and weak.

The strength of the Soldier is nothing compared to what it use to be. No longer can wear heavy armor, since everyone practically gets the same amount of protection, and the extra health doesn't do anything, you constantly need to be in cover like every other class, except for the Vanguard. I call bull**** on that. Soldier is run and gun, they are the ones that take the brute of any fight, that is why I hate the Vanguard.

By the way, I have played half a playthrough as a Vanguard, and Charge is nowhere as good as people says it is. Soldier or Sentinel for life.

Dude, Vanguards may be biotic gods, but soldier is the God. One class to rule them all. I like Vanguard, but soldier has simply no match.

Oh for...

The Vanguard doesn't suck on Insanity. Its not the best choice of course(Charge can be insta-death) but with access to the weapons it has along with Incendiary/Inferno ammo, Cryo ammo, and its biotics, it can deal with threats quite well.

But opinions aside-

Its down to the PLAYER. Some players suck with some classes, other players rock with them.

Drop a Soldier-centric player in an Engineer's shoes and they'll likely fail horribly while an Engineer-centric player would kick serious ass with the class.

[robarcool]

marshalleck wrote...

who would know wrote...

Read this thread.

Anyone who suggests a Tela Vasir-style charge for Shep misunderstands the concept and balance behind the Vanguard.

No, you can't use charge to break away from highly tense situations. Yes, Vanguard is tougher to master. And no, charge does not require serious revision.

Indeed. If Tela Vasir used Charge correctly, she wouldn't be dead now.

I don't think that is a valid argument. No matter how she would have used charge, she would be dead. She has to die, for Commander Shepard is not to be messed with!

[Pulletlamer]

LPPrince wrote...

Oh for...

The Vanguard doesn't suck on Insanity. Its not the best choice of course(Charge can be insta-death) but with access to the weapons it has along with Incendiary/Inferno ammo, Cryo ammo, and its biotics, it can deal with threats quite well.

But opinions aside-

Its down to the PLAYER. Some players suck with some classes, other players rock with them.

Drop a Soldier-centric player in an Engineer's shoes and they'll likely fail horribly while an Engineer-centric player would kick serious ass with the class.

Just wanting to give my input on that. No offense but cryo ammo is the most useless power in the game, especially on Insanity since all enemies have shields/barriers and/or armor and it doesn't serve for anything. You could kill the target in the same time it takes to freeze and kill it.

That said I loved playing the Vanguard through Insanity but you have to be careful since charge in some situations means throwing yourself into an almost guaranteed death. Especially early in the game.

[LPPrince]

Pulletlamer wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Oh for...

The Vanguard doesn't suck on Insanity. Its not the best choice of course(Charge can be insta-death) but with access to the weapons it has along with Incendiary/Inferno ammo, Cryo ammo, and its biotics, it can deal with threats quite well.

But opinions aside-

Its down to the PLAYER. Some players suck with some classes, other players rock with them.

Drop a Soldier-centric player in an Engineer's shoes and they'll likely fail horribly while an Engineer-centric player would kick serious ass with the class.

Just wanting to give my input on that. No offense but cryo ammo is the most useless power in the game, especially on Insanity since all enemies have shields/barriers and/or armor and it doesn't serve for anything. You could kill the target in the same time it takes to freeze and kill it.

That said I loved playing the Vanguard through Insanity but you have to be careful since charge in some situations means throwing yourself into an almost guaranteed death. Especially early in the game.

Inferno Ammo beats Cryo for me by a mile. I don't use it. But others have and for them, it works, so I brought it up.

[Lopake]

Beck57 wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

ESPECIALLY if you're carrying the Eviscerator, aka the mobile war crime.

Nice!



All my past arguments are about the INSANITY play through
with whatever.



Good luck with the point blank shotgun on some guy while his
men are filling you full of holes. Leaving cover in insanity is the fastest way
to become Swiss cheese there is. You can kill his allies first then take a guy
out with charge and shotgun but that’s just depressing. I am not saying that
the Vanguard is bad. It is just not as good as other setups
that can acheve the same thing.



And who runs away as an infiltrator! There are ether whistling
through the holes in their head when I get there, or their like, “where did he
go (shotgun to back of head) ****.” Then I kill him, laugh, and leave.

I don’t ever run though it’s just not my style.

On insanity you dont have to kill the allies to start charging. you charge the loner, kill it, shoot at closest enemy, when your shields go down charge again and repeat. It even works with the claymore. Heavy charge mixed with the c laymore got old to me so I play more relaxed now, and it is alot more fun. I charge less and use more biotics, its more fun in my opinion.

The first  rule of being a vanguard is learn the bugs with charge, and then work around them.

[Bourne Endeavor]

I will be content with them actually bug testing it. Charge's horrendous mechanics are never on better display than playing through Arrival on Insanity. God lord it had to have failed for no adequately explained reason well over a dozen times. In a few instances I Charged an enemy into the bloody scenery, or rather through it.

Seriously, BioWare. Test your mechanics a bit more. Charge is an epic move but just because it dominates on Veteran does not mean their are not any bugs.

[robarcool]

LPPrince wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Kabanya101 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

This is how you play a Vanguard-

Two Battles-Vanguard vs. Three YMIR Mechs

I love how one of the comments I got on the video was, "Ever heard of cover?"

My response- "I play a Vanguard, WE DON'T NEED COVER."

That is why I completely resent the Vanguard class. Aside from Insanity, which it blows on, on any other difficulty you don't need cover. It becomes absolutely unstoppable, when the strongest class, Soldier, is left defenseless and weak.

The strength of the Soldier is nothing compared to what it use to be. No longer can wear heavy armor, since everyone practically gets the same amount of protection, and the extra health doesn't do anything, you constantly need to be in cover like every other class, except for the Vanguard. I call bull**** on that. Soldier is run and gun, they are the ones that take the brute of any fight, that is why I hate the Vanguard.

By the way, I have played half a playthrough as a Vanguard, and Charge is nowhere as good as people says it is. Soldier or Sentinel for life.

Dude, Vanguards may be biotic gods, but soldier is the God. One class to rule them all. I like Vanguard, but soldier has simply no match.

Oh for...

The Vanguard doesn't suck on Insanity. Its not the best choice of course(Charge can be insta-death) but with access to the weapons it has along with Incendiary/Inferno ammo, Cryo ammo, and its biotics, it can deal with threats quite well.

But opinions aside-

Its down to the PLAYER. Some players suck with some classes, other players rock with them.

Drop a Soldier-centric player in an Engineer's shoes and they'll likely fail horribly while an Engineer-centric player would kick serious ass with the class.

Well, Vanguard is a great class and I had a blast on my insanity run (suicide mission completed now). But while I had to be careful about a few enemies like geth primes and Harbinger as my vanguard, my soldiers chewed through them like bubble gum. That's what I meant.

Modifié par robarcool, 31 juillet 2011 - 10:54 .

[robarcool]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

I will be content with them actually bug testing it. Charge's horrendous mechanics are never on better display than playing through Arrival on Insanity. God lord it had to have failed for no adequately explained reason well over a dozen times. In a few instances I Charged an enemy into the bloody scenery, or rather through it.

Seriously, BioWare. Test your mechanics a bit more. Charge is an epic move but just because it dominates on Veteran does not mean their are not any bugs.

Looks like I have that still left to find out. I will play Arrival and see what you are talking about.

[marshalleck]

robarcool wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

who would know wrote...

Read this thread.

Anyone who suggests a Tela Vasir-style charge for Shep misunderstands the concept and balance behind the Vanguard.

No, you can't use charge to break away from highly tense situations. Yes, Vanguard is tougher to master. And no, charge does not require serious revision.

Indeed. If Tela Vasir used Charge correctly, she wouldn't be dead now.

I don't think that is a valid argument. No matter how she would have used charge, she would be dead. She has to die, for Commander Shepard is not to be messed with!

Imagine that fight with her if she charged you every 4-5 seconds, refilling her shield and knocking you down. 

[Meshaber]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

I am addicted to medigel though, and using reave to suck the life from an enemy to replenish yuor own health is a somewhat satisfying reward.

That aside, there is still the logistical problem of coding a "charge to cover" mechanic. If the power wheel pause isnt suitable, then the only other option I can think of would possibly be a "boomerang" charge, where you charge in, knock em down, and a few seconds later (enough for a couple of shotty rounds and/or an omniblade attack) get automatically returned to the spot you charged from.
Might be feasible, but due to its nature, I would call for it to be severely weaker compared to a standard charge, as you would have to reserve the biotic power gfor the return run.

Actually, this is a pretty cool idea if done right. What about doublepressing the hotkey for charge and being returned to the point of origin for your former charge? It gives you some, but not too much defensive capabilities of the ability...

[robarcool]

marshalleck wrote...

robarcool wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

who would know wrote...

Read this thread.

Anyone who suggests a Tela Vasir-style charge for Shep misunderstands the concept and balance behind the Vanguard.

No, you can't use charge to break away from highly tense situations. Yes, Vanguard is tougher to master. And no, charge does not require serious revision.

Indeed. If Tela Vasir used Charge correctly, she wouldn't be dead now.

I don't think that is a valid argument. No matter how she would have used charge, she would be dead. She has to die, for Commander Shepard is not to be messed with!

Imagine that fight with her if she charged you every 4-5 seconds, refilling her shield and knocking you down. 

Even then she would be dead. Commander Shepard will win, for he/she is controlled by the player lol!

Modifié par robarcool, 01 août 2011 - 06:11 .

[LPPrince]

robarcool wrote...

Well, Vanguard is a great class and I had a blast on my insanity run (suicide mission completed now). But while I had to be careful about a few enemies like geth primes and Harbinger as my vanguard, my soldiers chewed through them like bubble gum. That's what I meant.

The whole point behind the Vanguard is being in danger and being THIS close to dying at any point due to a bad charge.

So if you're against the blood pumping, "OH MY GOD, DON'T DIE" gameplay, that's understandable.

[Wulfram]

All I really need changed is for there to be something to tell me whether I've selected a valid charge target before I try it.

Modifié par Wulfram, 01 août 2011 - 10:20 .

[The Spamming Troll]

LPPrince wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Well, Vanguard is a great class and I had a blast on my insanity run (suicide mission completed now). But while I had to be careful about a few enemies like geth primes and Harbinger as my vanguard, my soldiers chewed through them like bubble gum. That's what I meant.

The whole point behind the Vanguard is being in danger and being THIS close to dying at any point due to a bad charge.

So if you're against the blood pumping, "OH MY GOD, DON'T DIE" gameplay, that's understandable.

soldiers have an easier time because enemy protections serve nothing more to them then more health enemy protections for the vangaurd means the vangaurd will mostly charge and sparingly use biotics, which is what manufactures that blood pumping adrenalin. even with pulls fast cooldown, ar taking OP-stasis, charge is 99% of the time the best abiltiy a vangaurd could use. but i think the whole point of the vangaurd is to be a combination of biotics and combat abilities. your representation of what the vangaurd is, is only becasue of charge. i think that any class can play that way on that edge, but the vangaurd sees more of it becasue its playstyle favors disregarding cover.