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#26
DonDaMon

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General User wrote...

DonDaMon wrote...

General User wrote...

DonDaMon wrote...
It can be argued that Humanity is just as aggresive as the Batarians.:blush:


Do you intend to actually make that argument?  Or are you content with merely stating that it can be made?


I thought it was blatantly obvious, Liara even said as much, and even the fact that we can have an all human council dominating the other species is proof enough. Humanity tries too hard at finding it's place in the galaxy because "they are eager to take" and when they aren't given what they want they go ahead and take it anyways.:whistle:



Not all aggression is created equal. The Alliance seizing power following the Battle of the Citadel is not at all comparable with the batarians seizing slaves from defenseless settlements. The batarians routinely exhibit a degree of violence, pettiness, and cruelty that is wholly absent from all but the most aggressive of human nationalists.


How do we know it isn't the same with the Batarians, that aggressiveness might only be in the minority just like Humanity, we don't know anything about the general Batarian population so the assumption that all of them are aggressive terrorists is ignorant. Cerberus is more of a threat than the Batarians, seeing as they don't unlish abominations and or their scientific failures on everyone else. They also have shown to be more destructive than any Batarian i know, So yes Humanity tends to be a little more aggressive than the Batarians.

#27
Uszi

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Anyway, it's not like humans would like, raid and kill people and take slaves and be nasty buggers.  Oh, wait.  Yeah, we did that crap to each other all the time.  As in, for most of our history as a species.

http://en.wikipedia....tic_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia....zation#Religion
http://en.wikipedia....Human_sacrifice
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Viking_Age
http://en.wikipedia....e_Mongol_Empire
http://en.wikipedia..../Atilla_the_Hun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Modifié par Uszi, 29 juillet 2011 - 05:50 .


#28
Ieldra

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Consider this:

At various times in history, humanity hasn't been better than the batarians. Many humans are not better than batarian slavers.

I think batarians are the most human-like of the alien species. Those who pour their hate on them are the best example for this, ignoring that whenever they look into the mirror, they see half a batarian looking back at them.

#29
DonDaMon

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Consider this:

At various times in history, humanity hasn't been better than the batarians. Many humans are not better than batarian slavers.

I think batarians are the most human-like of the alien species. Those who pour their hate on them are the best example for this, ignoring that whenever they look into the mirror, they see half a batarian looking back at them.


This ^ 
+1^_^

#30
Cancer Puppet

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Arppis wrote...

C'mon guys! Being a slaver is part of their culture! What happened to respecting other cultures and ways! :3


...and what about the cultures they are disrespecting by making slaves of their people?

It's kinda like crimes against humanity. Warlord X kills his own people and it's tolerated. When he starts killing the neighbors people get upset.

Modifié par Cancer Puppet, 29 juillet 2011 - 05:25 .


#31
General User

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DonDaMon wrote...
How do we know it isn't the same with the Batarians, that aggressiveness might only be in the minority just like Humanity,


They probably are, but that doesn't matter.


DonDaMon wrote...
we don't know anything about the general Batarian population so the assumption that all of them are aggressive terrorists is ignorant.


I agree.


DonDaMon wrote...
Cerberus is more of a threat than the Batarians, seeing as they don't unlish abominations and or their scientific failures on everyone else. They also have shown to be more destructive than any Batarian i know,


The Batarian Hegemony, as a matter of policy, sends terrorists and slavers to attack non- batarian colony worlds. If that doesn't qualify as unleashing an abomination on others I don't know what does.

And the Skyllian Blitz was no minor incident, of all Cerberus' myriad flaws, failures and defects deliberatley starting a major conflict is not yet among them.


DonDaMon wrote...
So yes Humanity tends to be a little more aggressive than the Batarians.


I won't disagree, but, like I said, there's a pretty big difference between "aggressively" asserting your nation's position in foreign policy, and "aggressively" destroying peaceful settlements and subjecting any survivors to chattel slavery.

Modifié par General User, 29 juillet 2011 - 05:50 .


#32
Porenferser

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Consider this:

At various times in history, humanity hasn't been better than the batarians. Many humans are not better than batarian slavers.

I think batarians are the most human-like of the alien species. Those who pour their hate on them are the best example for this, ignoring that whenever they look into the mirror, they see half a batarian looking back at them.


Right!
And thats why I love them, they are just like us.

#33
Pride Demon

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DonDaMon wrote...

How do we know it isn't the same with the Batarians, that aggressiveness might only be in the minority just like Humanity, we don't know anything about the general Batarian population so the assumption that all of them are aggressive terrorists is ignorant. Cerberus is more of a threat than the Batarians, seeing as they don't unlish abominations and or their scientific failures on everyone else.

I agree with this. And in fact pointed it out many times to people who bash Batarians as a whole...
Since their paranoid government has a Department for Information Control we know basically nothing about what the avarage Batarian thinks, since the only ones that are free to leave Batarian space are almost all slavers and criminals...

I'll still point out that this does not excuse the actions of the rotten apples however...
Just because most Batarians may not agree with the random Balak, doesn't mean it's ok for the random Balak to do what he wants and be pardoned for it...

DonDaMon wrote...
They also have shown to be more destructive than any Batarian I know, So yes Humanity tends to be a little more aggressive than the Batarians.

Well, actually Balak wanted to kill 4.4 million humans with an orbital drop (which would have probably also ruined the planet habitability)...
Not even Cerberus killed that many people in one go (though they may have killed more in total)...

And that doesn't account for all the slaver raids...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Consider this:

At various times in history, humanity hasn't been better than the batarians. Many humans are not better than batarian slavers.

I
think batarians are the most human-like of the alien species. Those who
pour their hate on them are the best example for this, ignoring that
whenever they look into the mirror, they see half a batarian looking
back at them.

An interesting and often forgotten point of view... :)

#34
Uszi

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Anyway, you might object to the Batarians being goddam terrorists.

But everyone has to admit that they're badasses.

#35
alex90c

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Uszi wrote...

Anyway, you might object to the Batarians being goddam terrorists.

But everyone has to admit that they're badasses.


Nah.

Krogans are #1 in badassery.

#36
bobdooly

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Uszi wrote...

Anyway, it's not like humans would like, raid and kill people and take slaves and be nasty buggers.  Oh, wait.  Yeah, we did that crap to each other all the time.  As in, for most of our history as a species.

http://en.wikipedia....tic_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia....zation#Religion
http://en.wikipedia....Human_sacrifice
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Viking_Age
http://en.wikipedia....e_Mongol_Empire
http://en.wikipedia..../Atilla_the_Hun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust


Except humans stopped doing things like that. Look at species as they are, not as they were.

#37
Arppis

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bobdooly wrote...

Uszi wrote...

Anyway, it's not like humans would like, raid and kill people and take slaves and be nasty buggers.  Oh, wait.  Yeah, we did that crap to each other all the time.  As in, for most of our history as a species.

http://en.wikipedia....tic_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia....zation#Religion
http://en.wikipedia....Human_sacrifice
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Viking_Age
http://en.wikipedia....e_Mongol_Empire
http://en.wikipedia..../Atilla_the_Hun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust


Except humans stopped doing things like that. Look at species as they are, not as they were.


Humans still do stuff like that... They always do.

#38
Homey C-Dawg

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I don't feel any kind of sympathy or anything for batarians, but I think they are a cool race and I would love to be surprised in ME3 with a batarian squadmate. Their extensive history with humans would make for some excellent conversation.

#39
Sebby

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Batarians have one thing in common with humans that no other alien species have....... ears! That counts for something.

#40
DonDaMon

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Batarian's constantly being bashed, but understand Humans = Batarians ..give or take a few qualities and the difference in appearance.

#41
bobdooly

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Arppis wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

Uszi wrote...

Anyway, it's not like humans would like, raid and kill people and take slaves and be nasty buggers.  Oh, wait.  Yeah, we did that crap to each other all the time.  As in, for most of our history as a species.

http://en.wikipedia....tic_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia....zation#Religion
http://en.wikipedia....Human_sacrifice
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Viking_Age
http://en.wikipedia....e_Mongol_Empire
http://en.wikipedia..../Atilla_the_Hun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust


Except humans stopped doing things like that. Look at species as they are, not as they were.


Humans still do stuff like that... They always do.


Yeah, because there are so many Alliance sponsored slave camps and terrorist organizations.

Even in 2011, the world for the most part is stopping things like slavery and imperialism (hint: UN)

#42
General User

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bobdooly wrote...

Arppis wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

Uszi wrote...

Anyway, it's not like humans would like, raid and kill people and take slaves and be nasty buggers.  Oh, wait.  Yeah, we did that crap to each other all the time.  As in, for most of our history as a species.

http://en.wikipedia....tic_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia....zation#Religion
http://en.wikipedia....Human_sacrifice
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Viking_Age
http://en.wikipedia....e_Mongol_Empire
http://en.wikipedia..../Atilla_the_Hun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust


Except humans stopped doing things like that. Look at species as they are, not as they were.


Humans still do stuff like that... They always do.


Yeah, because there are so many Alliance sponsored slave camps and terrorist organizations.

Even in 2011, the world for the most part is stopping things like slavery and imperialism (hint: UN)



I think that that's really the difference between humans and batarians in this regard. Humanity is constantly seeking to overcome our barbarous past, while the batarians seem content to wallow in theirs.

Modifié par General User, 29 juillet 2011 - 06:50 .


#43
BubbleSauce

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Arppis wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

Uszi wrote...

Anyway, it's not like humans would like, raid and kill people and take slaves and be nasty buggers.  Oh, wait.  Yeah, we did that crap to each other all the time.  As in, for most of our history as a species.

http://en.wikipedia....tic_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia....zation#Religion
http://en.wikipedia....Human_sacrifice
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Viking_Age
http://en.wikipedia....e_Mongol_Empire
http://en.wikipedia..../Atilla_the_Hun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust


Except humans stopped doing things like that. Look at species as they are, not as they were.


Humans still do stuff like that... They always do.


Yes, but if you look at slave trades on earth today, (namely those of which are happening on the coasts of third world countries) they are done because it is one of the only ways to make any kind of decent money, they are not performed as a hate crime, nor are they sponsored by the government so that it doesn't have to take the fall for it's own predjudice, the crimes of the batarians however, are exactly that. And in terms of human sacrifice, I'm sorry, but who still does that?

#44
Arppis

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bobdooly wrote...

Arppis wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

Uszi wrote...

Anyway, it's not like humans would like, raid and kill people and take slaves and be nasty buggers.  Oh, wait.  Yeah, we did that crap to each other all the time.  As in, for most of our history as a species.

http://en.wikipedia....tic_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia....zation#Religion
http://en.wikipedia....Human_sacrifice
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Viking_Age
http://en.wikipedia....e_Mongol_Empire
http://en.wikipedia..../Atilla_the_Hun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust


Except humans stopped doing things like that. Look at species as they are, not as they were.


Humans still do stuff like that... They always do.


Yeah, because there are so many Alliance sponsored slave camps and terrorist organizations.

Even in 2011, the world for the most part is stopping things like slavery and imperialism (hint: UN)


Ah, I thought we were talking about what happens in real world. Well, can't really say much about Mass Effect world either. There will always be slavery in some form, like prostitution, etc...

But yeah, it's not excactly leagal. But it doesn't stop some people.

#45
DonDaMon

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Arppis wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

Arppis wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

Uszi wrote...

Anyway, it's not like humans would like, raid and kill people and take slaves and be nasty buggers.  Oh, wait.  Yeah, we did that crap to each other all the time.  As in, for most of our history as a species.

http://en.wikipedia....tic_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia....zation#Religion
http://en.wikipedia....Human_sacrifice
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Viking_Age
http://en.wikipedia....e_Mongol_Empire
http://en.wikipedia..../Atilla_the_Hun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust


Except humans stopped doing things like that. Look at species as they are, not as they were.


Humans still do stuff like that... They always do.


Yeah, because there are so many Alliance sponsored slave camps and terrorist organizations.

Even in 2011, the world for the most part is stopping things like slavery and imperialism (hint: UN)


Ah, I thought we were talking about what happens in real world. Well, can't really say much about Mass Effect world either. There will always be slavery in some form, like prostitution, etc...

But yeah, it's not excactly leagal. But it doesn't stop some people.


Slavery still exist today, look up the restaveks of Haiti.. & im sure there are plenty more places that use this system.. and lets not forget Hoes that Pimps essentially own. However we were talking about mass effect timeline.

#46
Someone With Mass

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DonDaMon wrote...

Slavery still exist today, look up the restaveks of Haiti.. & im sure there are plenty more places that use this system.. and lets not forget Hoes that Pimps essentially own. However we were talking about mass effect timeline.


That's small potatoes compared to the whole race that's dedicated to slavery. Hell, they even think it's their natural right to enslave other people.

#47
jamesp81

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It's best not to feed the troll.

#48
Arppis

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DonDaMon wrote...

Arppis wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

Arppis wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

Uszi wrote...

Anyway, it's not like humans would like, raid and kill people and take slaves and be nasty buggers.  Oh, wait.  Yeah, we did that crap to each other all the time.  As in, for most of our history as a species.

http://en.wikipedia....tic_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia....zation#Religion
http://en.wikipedia....Human_sacrifice
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Viking_Age
http://en.wikipedia....e_Mongol_Empire
http://en.wikipedia..../Atilla_the_Hun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust


Except humans stopped doing things like that. Look at species as they are, not as they were.


Humans still do stuff like that... They always do.


Yeah, because there are so many Alliance sponsored slave camps and terrorist organizations.

Even in 2011, the world for the most part is stopping things like slavery and imperialism (hint: UN)


Ah, I thought we were talking about what happens in real world. Well, can't really say much about Mass Effect world either. There will always be slavery in some form, like prostitution, etc...

But yeah, it's not excactly leagal. But it doesn't stop some people.


Slavery still exist today, look up the restaveks of Haiti.. & im sure there are plenty more places that use this system.. and lets not forget Hoes that Pimps essentially own. However we were talking about mass effect timeline.


Yeah, people are pretty cruel at eachothers.

I still bet there is some slavery going on in Alliance space too. But as it is today, it's not "visible".

#49
Arppis

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Someone With Mass wrote...

DonDaMon wrote...

Slavery still exist today, look up the restaveks of Haiti.. & im sure there are plenty more places that use this system.. and lets not forget Hoes that Pimps essentially own. However we were talking about mass effect timeline.


That's small potatoes compared to the whole race that's dedicated to slavery. Hell, they even think it's their natural right to enslave other people.


Yeah, they are the worst offenders, for sure.

#50
Inquisitor Recon

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Why do I hate batarians? Because everybody can agree to hate them. Now vorcha don't really count because they are like rats and you hate them by default.