1502 réponses à ce sujet

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

In episode 2 of Promoting thought we discuss how a community can engineer change and help a developer to improve its gaming products through the use of calm rational feedback.

http://www.youtube.c...ser/quinnthalas

Speaking of feedback, please leave me plenty guys and girls  I am having a ball making these and would love to hear suggestions as to what to do next.



EDIT ; - I have uploaded a new video in direct response to and covering the content of this thread

Love the discussion guys keep it up.


Edit two regarding spoilers

For all your spoiler filled posts to discuss storyline in an environment similar to this thread.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/8047637


Episode 5 is now up and covers community content and calls for more community centric and sandbox games

Modifié par Kothoses Rothenkisal, 07 août 2011 - 11:11 .

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

I have had a couple of comments regarding the response to the DA release drama, but these have so far been rather negative, does anyone have anything positive to say about how the critique of DA 2 was handled?

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

One single solitary bump in a quest for feedback.

[csfteeeer]

You make good points in your video, but i don't really understand what kind of feedback do YOU want.
Feedback for DA2?
For your video?
if it is for your video, then i don't know what kind of feedback you want.

it's a video of you talking with the footage of a game.

Don't really to say that could be considered as feedback.

i don't know, improve your video quality?

if not, then tell me, WHAT KIND OF FEEDBACK DO YOU WANT?

[Teddie Sage]

Don't triple post. This is considered to be spam.

[Anomaly-]

I'm also a litlte confused by this, but I'll give my feedback on both. As for the video, I agree with most of what you're saying, but honestly, it's just common sense. The notion that you need to make an instructional video telling people how to not be idiots is pretty sad, to be honest. I don't think the people who just say 'this game sucks' or troll, or do any of the things you're telling them not to do will actually bother to watch your video, as it would take too much effort and attention span.

As for feedback regarding the game itself, you can check out the review in my sig if you want that. I wrote it when the game first came out, it's just honest and to the point, goes into plenty of detail and isn't just ridiculous nerd rage.

I like how everyone is praising Legacy for taking all of the fan's feedback into consideration. If you read my review, the only issues they really addressed (or at least tried to) were the reused environments and silly parachuting encounters. Honestly, these were no-brainers. They'd have to be idiots to repeat those mistakes, frankly. Even ridiculously inflated critical reviews from popular websites acknowledged those shortcomings, so let's not pretend it's all because they're listening to the fanbase.

[csfteeeer]

Anomaly- wrote...

I'm also a litlte confused by this, but I'll give my feedback on both. As for the video, I agree with most of what you're saying, but honestly, it's just common sense. The notion that you need to make an instructional video telling people how to not be idiots is pretty sad, to be honest. I don't think the people who just say 'this game sucks' or troll, or do any of the things you're telling them not to do will actually bother to watch your video, as it would take too much effort and attention span.

As for feedback regarding the game itself, you can check out the review in my sig if you want that. I wrote it when the game first came out, it's just honest and to the point, goes into plenty of detail and isn't just ridiculous nerd rage.

I like how everyone is praising Legacy for taking all of the fan's feedback into consideration. If you read my review, the only issues they really addressed (or at least tried to) were the reused environments and silly parachuting encounters. Honestly, these were no-brainers. They'd have to be idiots to repeat those mistakes, frankly. Even ridiculously inflated critical reviews from popular websites acknowledged those shortcomings, so let's not pretend it's all because they're listening to the fanbase.

while i agree with what you're saying, i do think you should be a little more understanding because this is afterall a DLC, which is added to the game, so they really can't address a hole lot more of complains through a DLC. 
it remains to be seen how will they handle DA3 However, THERE is where i will expect more than just that.
Not to mention, the people who bought Legacy already like DA2, so they're gonna praise it no matter what.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:36 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Anomaly- wrote...

I like how everyone is praising Legacy for taking all of the fan's feedback into consideration. If you read my review, the only issues they really addressed (or at least tried to) were the reused environments and silly parachuting encounters. Honestly, these were no-brainers. They'd have to be idiots to repeat those mistakes, frankly. Even ridiculously inflated critical reviews from popular websites acknowledged those shortcomings, so let's not pretend it's all because they're listening to the fanbase.

The only place I've ever seen 'all' mentioned is in the above paragraph. People were just thanking the devs for listening to feedback period.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:36 .

[Anomaly-]

csfteeeer wrote...
while i agree with what you're saying, i do think you should be a little more understanding because this is afterall a DLC, which is added to the game, so they really can't address a hole lot more of complains through a DLC. 
it remains to be seen how will they handle DA3 However, THERE is where i will expect more than just that.

I should have been more clear. I didn't expect any more than that. I, too, am only going to expect that from the next full game. My issue was with people suggesting that their input had something to do with the changes made.

Not to mention, the people who bought Legacy already like DA2, so they're gonna praise it no matter what.

That's a fair point.

Cutlass Jack wrote...
The only place I've ever seen 'all'
mentioned is in the above paragraph. People were just thanking the devs
for listening to feedback period.

Fair enough, my wording was less than ideal there. My point, however, is that I think suggesting these changes were at all affected by said feedback is a little naive. Let's be honest, at the very least the recycled environments were the result of cutting corners in a short dev cycle. As long as they had more than 2 weeks to develop this DLC they weren't going to do that again, regardless of all the fan feedback. It was just a no-brainer.

[Bazedragon]

Anomaly- wrote...

Fair enough, my wording was less than ideal there. My point, however, is that I think suggesting these changes were at all affected by said feedback is a little naive. Let's be honest, at the very least the recycled environments were the result of cutting corners in a short dev cycle. As long as they had more than 2 weeks to develop this DLC they weren't going to do that again, regardless of all the fan feedback. It was just a no-brainer.

Wait, so if peoples fan feedback was generally positive regarding re-used environments, you figure they'd have igored it? (Hypothetically speaking, of course)

__


Bioware stated that they were listening to fan feedback, and taking it into account when making the DLC. So, sorry, I think you might JUST be a little bit.. ehm... wrong.

csfteeeer wrote...

Not to mention, the people who bought Legacy already like DA2, so they're gonna praise it no matter what.

Pretty sure I've seen people who weren't overly pleased with the game who've enjoyed the DLC. Others who were clearly upset that it didn't change the game mechanics.

Modifié par Bazedragon, 31 juillet 2011 - 07:06 .

[Anomaly-]

Bazedragon wrote...
Wait, so if peoples fan feedback was generally positive regarding re-used environments, you figure they'd have igored it? (Hypothetically speaking, of course)

Moot point. Positive feedback on that would be impossible, that's why it was a no-brainer. In this case the feedback was to do something they'd have to do anyway, so they can easily say it was due to the feedback. Two birds, one stone. Get it?

Bioware stated that they were listening to fan feedback, and taking it into account when making the DLC

Of course they did. That's the smartest thing they could say.

So, sorry, I think you might JUST be a little bit.. ehm... wrong.

I'd call it.. ehm.. realistic.

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Sorry, ok for Clarity I was after Feedback about both the video, its discussion and also on DA 2 and how people felt Bioware responded to both the positive and negative feedback at launch.

For those who feel that Legacy was just a cash in on the issues raised at launch, what would it have taken for you to be "satisfied" for those who thought that DA 2 and Legacy were good and decent value what would you like to see expanded on next.

Also any feedback over the quality of the audio would also be appreciated, I am getting mixed messages from people over this.

The triple post issue, I was worried it would come across that way but I had been getting a lot of video views and post views but people were being very silent. Given that the niche I am aiming for is communities I felt it worth it to nag a little.

Thanks a lot guys, appreciate the comments.

[Anomaly-]

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...
For those who feel that Legacy was just a cash in on the issues raised at launch, what would it have taken for you to be "satisfied"

I wasn't going to be satisfied, and I knew it. I had too many issues with the main game to expect a DLC to improve them all. Legacy did pretty much what I expected it to do, can't fault it there. I will wait for DA3 before I entertain the idea of being satisfied.

Also any feedback over the quality of the audio would also be appreciated, I am getting mixed messages from people over this.

It's not bad, but a little inconsistent in places.

[blothulfur]

Personally i've been in this position before with the original main campaign of neverwinter nights which for me was salvaged by the tight and unconvential story of shadows of undrentide and the excellent wealth of community mods but unlike that game I just couldn't bring myself to go back and purchase legacy due to my loathing for the core design of the main game.

I'm not saying Bioware is dead to me in a petulant dramatic manner because if they make another good game i'll buy and play it as I fully intend to with mass effect 3 if the reviews from trusted sources are positive, however I won't be pre ordering again which was optimistic foolishness on my own part and nor will I be quite so gullible as to believe marketing spiel such as the city will feel more alive or decide your own rise to power.

Still on a scale of enjoyment i've reaped more satisfaction from biowares past catalogue than the frustrations i've endured from two bad games, plus I think the maturity and tact with which they've handled the somewhat more vitriolic attacks on Mike Laidlaw and Stanley Woo have shown a real classy attitude. Hell i'm no saint when it comes to a bit of derision against DA2 but even I was shocked by some of the bile spewed up against what seems to be two normal blokes in a large team.

Hell Stan still posts regularly and never spews up pr speak or the company line, he calls 'em how he sees 'em and i'm surely not the only person who appreciates that. Anyway good luck with the videos mate, wish you best of british.

[elearon1]

Your voice warbles in the video, are you using some kind of synthesizer program? If so, it is distracting, if not, there is something wrong with the audio.

[Eldred]

Good and all, I do disagree that I as a fan should come up and say that this feature is bad here is why AND then add what they should done instead.

I as a consumer should rate the game, give my opinion and say why I like or disliked a feature. Sure giving what to do instead would be a nice idea, but Im not a game developer. It is like if you drive a car you don't like the feel of the car in corners, so you state this critic. Now I would bet most of you have no idea how to improve this feel and that is something for the car company in this case to work on and hopefully improve.

[Anomaly-]

Eldred wrote...
Sure giving what to do instead would be a nice idea, but Im not a game developer. It is like if you drive a car you don't like the feel of the car in corners, so you state this critic. Now I would bet most of you have no idea how to improve this feel and that is something for the car company in this case to work on and hopefully improve.

A computer science w/ honours degree and plenty of modding experience says I know what I'm talking about . Even so, one doesn't need such experience to suggest better approaches or ways of doing things. Good ideas can come from anyone, it's just up to those with the aforementioned experience to program it.

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Eldred wrote...

Good and all, I do disagree that I as a fan should come up and say that this feature is bad here is why AND then add what they should done instead.

I as a consumer should rate the game, give my opinion and say why I like or disliked a feature. Sure giving what to do instead would be a nice idea, but Im not a game developer. It is like if you drive a car you don't like the feel of the car in corners, so you state this critic. Now I would bet most of you have no idea how to improve this feel and that is something for the car company in this case to work on and hopefully improve.

Thats kind of the point though, game developers these days are often accused of being in the pocket of the suits at the publishers.  Sometimes games can feel like some one plugged the  equasion of fun into Spreadsheets and the results into a game.  Now thats not all Developers for sure, but isnt the best person to remind them what we as customers find fun you or me or the other people who play and lose our selves in the game, then the job of the developers to figure out how to code it?

[Eldred]

Ye that is how I see it as well but from how I understood you on the video is that you also wanted the fan to come up with the solution. I'd say good feedback would be sufficient to have information like;

This new feature A.
I do not like this because it was too SOMETHING, too much SOMETHING ELSE. It feelt B.
Not with it should be done like this section.

(Notice I was abit cryptic in my last response. I mean that the parts before AND was things I think a FAN should help out with and the part I disagreed with was the 2nd part about saying do like this instead)

Anomaly- 
If you feel you have the experiance and knowledge to give that kind of feedback I do not say it is wrong to do so. I just don't think we should ask that all give that feedback. Sufficient feedback should be how you experianced features of the game. What was good, what was bad. Not necessarily comming up with a solution. 

Modifié par Eldred, 01 août 2011 - 09:20 .

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Eldred wrote...

Ye that is how I see it as well but from how I understood you on the video is that you also wanted the fan to come up with the solution. I'd say good feedback would be sufficient to have information like;

Ideally yes that would be the best response, but listing what you felt was wrong and why is not a bad response, just not the ideal, in my opinion.

[Ginkeh]

Anomaly- wrote...

Not to mention, the people who bought Legacy already like DA2, so they're gonna praise it no matter what.

That's a fair point.

No it`s not, it`s a stupid generalization and I`m getting sick of reading it.

[Eldred]

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

Ideally yes that would be the best response, but listing what you felt was wrong and why is not a bad response, just not the ideal, in my opinion.

Fair enough  

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Episode 3 is up, its not a dragon age episode but those people who had audio issues if you could let me know if its any better I would be very grateful.

[Eldred]

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

Episode 3 is up, its not a dragon age episode but those people who had audio issues if you could let me know if its any better I would be very grateful.

It is good now, no different than any other podcasts or such that I listen to.

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Eldred wrote...

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

Episode 3 is up, its not a dragon age episode but those people who had audio issues if you could let me know if its any better I would be very grateful.

It is good now, no different than any other podcasts or such that I listen to.

Thanks :you finally got the audio nailed then