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Dragon Age 2 reception and community discussed


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#551
David Gaider

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tmp7704 wrote...
Just a note -- while i've complained about exactly this effect (and yes, definitely a result of interpretation but just not something i can make myself to perceive differently) this was mainly irritating because it was happening for about every conversation opportunity that i can think of. At the same time though, if it was instead just an occasional thing (like say, having Hawke/other protagonist return to his/her home and finding a note from companion requesting a meeting) it'd feel quite more acceptable and maybe even a welcome bit of variety, i think.


Part of this is a result of the way we divided each follower's content in DA2. Splitting up the game into three time periods forced us to have an "introduction" for each follower at the beginning of one-- a way to catch up and tell the player what the follower has been up to in the intervening years. We also shifted a lot more focus onto the follower personal plot arcs. Neither of these things are necessarily bad, but they did mean less content being available for "extra" dialogue, even though the overall amount of dialogue per individual follower was comparable to DAO. Simply different priorities.

So a bit of rearrangement is necessary, and perhaps some room needs to be left for "small talk" like I said earlier-- perhaps leaving the notifications for the really important stuff, and allow the player some dialogue to discover on her own. What we'll do with the notifications, or whether we'll keep them at all, I can't really say. A lot depends on adapting to the structure of the story in question.

#552
Saintthanksgiving

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Adobe Amena wrote...

I have to say, I'm strongly in the camp of people who want more on-the-road reactivity from my companions than I got in DA2. I've always wanted more of that reactivity in BioWare's games, and I've noticed a disturbing trend ever since, oh, Mass Effect...? Of being able to interact with your party members outside the "home base" area less and less.

Same thing with codex entries; if I read in his bio that Varric, uh, I dunno, hates demons, and it's relevant to the larger narrative for me to bring that up to him, I don't like being forced into a state where I've read something about someone I'm talking to that seems like a Pretty Big Deal, but my character somehow hasn't, and so I'm not allowed to ask about the Pretty Big Deal even though my character would be an absolute idiot not to. I don't think rectifying that, at least, is too much to ask.

Also, if I get a sword called Sword Of Borthalor's Rage or something, I kinda wanna know why it's called that. You don't have to bring back item descriptions for every single item, but if the new bit of loot I just hoovered up is somehow special, I want to get at least a few sentences of backstory on it. Otherwise it's just another "...Of The Bear" WOW item.


I think this issue also plays into the general idea that Hawke didnt seem to be a causal force in the major events happening in Kirkwall.  Aside from major cinematic conversations, I never felt that Hawke was overly concerned about anything going on.  If there had been more conversations, content, etc where the player could input reactions to events into the story... this may have not been an issue.  Basically, I know I am supposed to care, but if you let me choose WHY I care, its going to work a lot better.

I think that more conversation, more interactions would breathe more life into the character, and deepen the connections to both the companions and the npcs living in the city... more NPC's to talk to would also help, even if they did not have huge plot importance.... like comic relief.

#553
Bryy_Miller

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David Gaider wrote...
Part of this is a result of the way we divided each follower's content in DA2. Splitting up the game into three time periods forced us to have an "introduction" for each follower at the beginning of one-- a way to catch up and tell the player what the follower has been up to in the intervening years. We also shifted a lot more focus onto the follower personal plot arcs. 


I thought this was an amazing piece of work. All the main story-arcs continued throughout the years.

#554
twincast

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Aside from a couple of Brock's posts some time earlier, I've only read the dev posts, so pardon me for not taking any current discussion into account.

First of all I've got to say, Mike & co., the stuff you write reads well and all of it (content, tone, its sheer existence) is really appreciated. While I can't say that a couple of mere posts have managed to regain my trust, I'm surprised to say that after all this time it almost feels like the good old times again, at least in this particular thread. Now if only the girls would jump back in...

So, a couple of things that stood out to me in reading through this thread's dev posts:

Kirkwall. Yes, it's got some pretty landmarks, but that post raised some alarm flags for me. DA2's camera is worse than those of all those 3D platformers over a decade ago that kept getting flak for their cameras in close spaces. When not playing a melee char it's positively broken! And even if it weren't: I want my lucid top-view back. Frankly I haven't encountered a single area in DA2 that struck me as impossible with the tactical camera's "design restrictions".

Waves. I doubt I've ever felt as pissed in my gaming life as during the second half of the feelingly never-ending waves right before you meet Fenris. I've said it before, I'll say it again, waves aren't bad per se if used sparingly, when they make sense (most boss battles and a few other times) and as long as they don't parachute out of thin air.
Unexpectedly enough, if DA2 weren't uninstalled and my HDD space ever scarce, your description of Legacy would've actually made me give it a try. So, still no buy now, but it's rather likely now if I ever decide to re-install DA2 (or especially if you end up doing a DLC sale).

I've already had my say on party armor in that other thread, but it boils down to one thing: I remember your reasons for "becoming" armor instead of literally wearing it (memory, basically), but changing that would still get rid of most problems both DA:O's and DA2's extreme positions pose. The decision still kind of baffles me as it was clearly made when Dragon Age was still supposed to be a PC (first/only) game/series. I suspect what you really need is a new engine.

Speaking of wearing stuff: DA2's blink-and-you'll-miss-it clothed fumbling wasn't mature by any meaning of the word, it was prude and childish. I don't care if the unique models or fear from Fox or anything else was to blame, they were simply silly. DA:O's sex scenes were largely criticized for the underwear-wearing and the animations and models not looking real enough. The solution would have been either to work on it a lot (c.f. The Witcher 2, but I realize that'd most likely be deemed too explicit) or to work on it a bit and use clever camera angles (c.f. ME1 or even ME2), not to cut them altogether in all but name.
Which reminds me: Underwear double standards. Absolutely not cool. At all. (Same goes for female characters' dislocated hip.)

And the one huge thing yet to be addressed by you to be a discussion in-house: player character races. I'd already resigned myself to never being able to play anything but humans in (non-TOR) BioWare games ever again, but given what you've written so far, a tiny spark of hope has reignited, so: Please!! OTZ
And since it's related: a non-voiced protagonist that isn't a warning figure against botox would still be my ideal, but since the voiced protagonist and the wheel are here to stay: I know it isn't economical, but at least two voices each (one moderately high, one moderately low) for male and female PC's would go a long way to reduce role-playing disconnect. And please, for the love of the Maker, stop paraphrasing with expressions that aren't part of the complete text.



Also, different team and all, but I can't help but feel excited about TOR*, but the timing's likely to be bad for a subscription for me, so I won't be able to play it at release and waaaaaaahh~~~... (^_^;;)

(*Although I would have preferred there to have been a KotOR3 to finish Revan and the Exile's story before that, and for KotOR2 to have all the game content it was supposed to have, and for IWD2 to have the game system it was supposed to have, and, and, and... but this way of thinking leads nowhere, so one's got to look forward.)

#555
erynnar

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Part of this is a result of the way we divided each follower's content in DA2. Splitting up the game into three time periods forced us to have an "introduction" for each follower at the beginning of one-- a way to catch up and tell the player what the follower has been up to in the intervening years. We also shifted a lot more focus onto the follower personal plot arcs. 


I thought this was an amazing piece of work. All the main story-arcs continued throughout the years.


I thought it didn't work very well at all. It was disjointed, and the gaps were not well explained at all. I felt as though Hawke went comatose. The story arcs didn't seem to bleed into the next very well to me. This was negated somewhat when I told myself it was three months between acts rather than three years, which made things work better to me. Especially Fenris and his romance thing (no spoilers, you know what that was) and I hardly felt my Hawke would sit around pining for three years, before things were...resolved? Three months, sure, three years? No.

#556
b1322

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erynnar wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Part of this is a result of the way we divided each follower's content in DA2. Splitting up the game into three time periods forced us to have an "introduction" for each follower at the beginning of one-- a way to catch up and tell the player what the follower has been up to in the intervening years. We also shifted a lot more focus onto the follower personal plot arcs. 


I thought this was an amazing piece of work. All the main story-arcs continued throughout the years.


I thought it didn't work very well at all. It was disjointed, and the gaps were not well explained at all. I felt as though Hawke went comatose. The story arcs didn't seem to bleed into the next very well to me. This was negated somewhat when I told myself it was three months between acts rather than three years, which made things work better to me. Especially Fenris and his romance thing (no spoilers, you know what that was) and I hardly felt my Hawke would sit around pining for three years, before things were...resolved? Three months, sure, three years? No.



I agree, it didnt work at all. I got 1 line of dialogue with Fenris, played 5 hours, then got 1 line of dialogue again, played 5 hours and so on.

Modifié par b1322, 06 août 2011 - 02:40 .


#557
TEWR

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erynnar wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Part of this is a result of the way we divided each follower's content in DA2. Splitting up the game into three time periods forced us to have an "introduction" for each follower at the beginning of one-- a way to catch up and tell the player what the follower has been up to in the intervening years. We also shifted a lot more focus onto the follower personal plot arcs. 


I thought this was an amazing piece of work. All the main story-arcs continued throughout the years.


I thought it didn't work very well at all. It was disjointed, and the gaps were not well explained at all. I felt as though Hawke went comatose. The story arcs didn't seem to bleed into the next very well to me. This was negated somewhat when I told myself it was three months between acts rather than three years, which made things work better to me. Especially Fenris and his romance thing (no spoilers, you know what that was) and I hardly felt my Hawke would sit around pining for three years, before things were...resolved? Three months, sure, three years? No.



Yea, as much as I dislike bashing DA2's story, I didn't think that the Mage-Templar conflict was portrayed as it should've been. It was definitely held together very loosely. Not only did Hawke not do anything, but so much of the M-T conflict was left in the dust. I swear Sandal did more than Hawke did by scratching his own ass.

Why not use Meredith's zeal against mages alongside with how the Arishok and the Qunari leash their mages? Why didn't the Arishok meet with Meredith, the real power of Kirkwall? Why do we always meet bat**** insane mages? Why does the plot demand stupidity from everyone?

It was just... way too unbalanced. Especially what Orsino did at the end for pro-mage people to try to make a black and white choice grey.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 août 2011 - 02:49 .


#558
erynnar

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And I apologize, Mr. Gaider, I don't mean any offense, really I don't. I think you are a splendid writer, and I am a total fan girl, there I said it. It's out of the closet, along with, what is that? Oh, my. Um, yes sorry about that. *blushes and grabs unmentionables that fell out of the closet too*

#559
tmp7704

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Especially what Orsino did at the end for pro-mage people to make a black and white choice grey.

I can't help but link fishmas' comic here because i <3 the faces they make Posted Image

#560
TEWR

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I knew exactly which comic you linked in your link. That just brings the pain back. Thanks for that. I am now in pain again. Posted Image


Oh look naked, drunken Oghren! All is right with the world again! Posted Image

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 août 2011 - 02:47 .


#561
Tommy6860

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Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...
I honestly don't know how much more Bioware can cut, before any vestiges of role playing in the series, is considered being more of an action/adventure game. Sales count hugely, and rightfully so, but DA:O on average is the better seller and grabbed an audience I bet Bioware thought they couldn't considering how well it sold on the consoles. Wouldn't logic state that, maybe, just maybe, going back to most of those elements (not the Warden's story perse) may be the way to go?


My point was more that if we actually wanted to make an action-adventure game, we would have done so much more thoroughly.


Well, IMO, Bioware already accomplished that with DA2. Now all you need are assault weapons and mission directives, and you're there. :(

#562
TheRealJayDee

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Great thread, great discussion! As I really have to get some sleep now (couldn't stop reading this whole thread) I'll just say one small thing to our friends with the BioWare badges:

If PR wouldn't want you guys to participate in a forum discussion like this I'll never understand what they are there for. Everything I've seen so far that I'd consider being PR related (like most of the interviews since release etc) pretty much only accomplished to create/fuel negativity, hurt feelings and misunderstandings. As opposed to what you're doing here, which is good and constructive. Hopefully this thread continues to stay as interesting and civil as it's been to this point!

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 06 août 2011 - 02:55 .


#563
AngryFrozenWater

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David Gaider wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
Just a note -- while i've complained about exactly this effect (and yes, definitely a result of interpretation but just not something i can make myself to perceive differently) this was mainly irritating because it was happening for about every conversation opportunity that i can think of. At the same time though, if it was instead just an occasional thing (like say, having Hawke/other protagonist return to his/her home and finding a note from companion requesting a meeting) it'd feel quite more acceptable and maybe even a welcome bit of variety, i think.


Part of this is a result of the way we divided each follower's content in DA2. Splitting up the game into three time periods forced us to have an "introduction" for each follower at the beginning of one-- a way to catch up and tell the player what the follower has been up to in the intervening years. We also shifted a lot more focus onto the follower personal plot arcs. Neither of these things are necessarily bad, but they did mean less content being available for "extra" dialogue, even though the overall amount of dialogue per individual follower was comparable to DAO. Simply different priorities.

So a bit of rearrangement is necessary, and perhaps some room needs to be left for "small talk" like I said earlier-- perhaps leaving the notifications for the really important stuff, and allow the player some dialogue to discover on her own. What we'll do with the notifications, or whether we'll keep them at all, I can't really say. A lot depends on adapting to the structure of the story in question.

This is very welcome, David. I've said this many times before, but my favorite DA2 character is the grand cleric. That has to do with her more or less DA:O-style dialogue which could be triggered by events involving her. It was available even without a quest marker above her head. She also had some small talk about your family. She was well portrayed. I take it the Sebestian DLC gave her more attention. I wished the companion dialogues were much like those of her. She's almost perfect. If only I could make her act sometimes and if only she had a bit more dialogue. ;)

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 août 2011 - 02:58 .


#564
Kileyan

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It was just... way too unbalanced. Especially what Orsino did at the end for pro-mage people to try to make a black and white choice grey.


This is one of Biowares flaws, they hear a complaints, for example, a large complaint was DA:O was too little grey area and just black and white choices. They over compensated and tried to make sure that no matter what you did it was a grey area choice or a bad choice.

In the end, you felt like it didn't ****g matter what you did..........which was true.

#565
Tommy6860

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
Just a note -- while i've complained about exactly this effect (and yes, definitely a result of interpretation but just not something i can make myself to perceive differently) this was mainly irritating because it was happening for about every conversation opportunity that i can think of. At the same time though, if it was instead just an occasional thing (like say, having Hawke/other protagonist return to his/her home and finding a note from companion requesting a meeting) it'd feel quite more acceptable and maybe even a welcome bit of variety, i think.


Part of this is a result of the way we divided each follower's content in DA2. Splitting up the game into three time periods forced us to have an "introduction" for each follower at the beginning of one-- a way to catch up and tell the player what the follower has been up to in the intervening years. We also shifted a lot more focus onto the follower personal plot arcs. Neither of these things are necessarily bad, but they did mean less content being available for "extra" dialogue, even though the overall amount of dialogue per individual follower was comparable to DAO. Simply different priorities.

So a bit of rearrangement is necessary, and perhaps some room needs to be left for "small talk" like I said earlier-- perhaps leaving the notifications for the really important stuff, and allow the player some dialogue to discover on her own. What we'll do with the notifications, or whether we'll keep them at all, I can't really say. A lot depends on adapting to the structure of the story in question.

This is very welcome, David. I've said this many times before, but my favorite DA2 character is the grand cleric. That has to do with her more or less DA:O-style dialogue which could be triggered by events involving her. It was available even without a quest marker above her head. She also had some small talk about your family. She was well portrayed. I take it the Sebestian DLC gave her more attention. I wished the companion dialogues were much like those of her. She's almost perfect. If only I could make her act sometimes and if only she had a bit more dialogue. ;)


The way David describes the possible dialogue changes (like the notifications), is almost like it is in KoTOR.

#566
AloraKast

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Re: Companion Interaction (yes, I realize I am some posts behind)

IMO what would be a definite improvement is, like many have suggested, regain the ability for the PC to dictate when they are able to have meaningful (or totally meaningless for that matter) conversations with the companions, instead of receiving a notification from the companion letting them know when the companion is ready and willing to talk. Being able to dictate and initiatie dialogue with the companions and allowing the PC to get to know the companion on our own terms is probably the best way for us to bond with our followers and for relationships with them.

At the same time I can appreciate that there may be many reasons to not have the ability to initiate that dialoge anywhere we want or "on the road" (be they interrupting the pace of the game, technical in nature, requiring greater cost, whatever). So I can totally live with having a few central locations (like the camp or the Hanged Man or companion home base) where you can intiatie that dialogue and talk about anything. So only the place is being restricted, but we get to keep the freedom of setting the pace - yes, I realize that it may not be the best solution but I'm trying to compromise here folks.

And I absolutely adore The Ethereal Writer Redux's suggestion of having companions comment on our decisions in a central location. I mean, how cool would that be to drag our dusty and weary corpses into the Hanged Man after a tough day of adventuring, hang out with our companions over a game of dice and a keg of ale, with the companions commenting on our adventures/choice with each other and us. I really missed being able to simply hang out with all of my companions, especially considering we had the perfect setting in the Hanged Man at night. It doesn't have to be grand and involved, just a few oppoertunities to be able to do that here and there with a line or two from each of the companions (perhaps not everyone at once either) would be great.

Oh, also getting back to dialogue, someone suggested earlier the dialogue which was used in Awakening. Persoanally I have to say that I am not fond of that dialogue system at all. Having to battle my way through hordes of mobs all the way to the end of a dungeon to find a clickable object that would initiate a comment, musing or dialogue from our companion... only to discover we brought along the wrong companion... that was a definite DOH moment right there if I ever experienced one. So I do seriously hope that we won't be utilizing that system again. I suppose having clickable objects in the world that the companions can comment on is a good idea, because it adds another layer to the companions, letting us know that they are engaged in what we are doing instead of just being mute ragdolls following us around, but only in the open and easily accessible areas to which we can return repeatedly... not dungeons that we only get to visit once.

Hope I am making some sense.

#567
thegoldfinch

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vallore wrote...
Personally one of the things I believe it would have benefit the game greatly would be if Hawke had a more personal story; as it was, I felt his story was more about Hawke the  adventurer than Hawke the person.

...

Now sure, the game allowed for some of these, “lower level” decisions already but, at least to me, they felt as if they were usually about disconnected and fortuitous events with strangers. As such they lacked the kind of emotional charge and sense of accomplishment they could have if instead, they were happening to people that Hawke knew and had some kind of relationship going on with, as part of a recognizable story, separated from that of the main events, connecting the entire game.

Oh, and did I said how I really admire the work you guys do at Bioware? No? Well, now I have.


I'm glad someone shares my sentiments. I am very certain that were the game run through the fine toothed comb and editted through a few more times, more than half of the bitter, seething customers could be placated. It's just like how the opposite happened for me in Mass Effect 2, where I could overlook what I considered to be a very, very silly story with obvious plot holes because the combat and the aesthetic of the setting were so enjoyable. Or, how I could overlook combat that felt very slow and tedious in DA:O because the story was fantastic.

I said in my first post on this thread that there were some great moments of trademark BioWare brilliance. Sheperding Wolves was one of those moments and that was honestly one of the most stand out quests I've ever played, period. Loved the camera work, the themes, the mood, the dialogue - everything. That problem is that quests central to the mage-versus-templar and out of control-versus-rigid control themes were all seperate circumstances instead of an intimately interwoven narrative. I know I'm just repeating myself here, but if the story is disconnected then the player tends to feel disconnected as well.

In that same vein, I think it was a mistake that meeting the companions was mostly by chance. I feel that it is important they all be tied to the story and reflect the themes of the game in their own issues. If meeting the character is a random and unimportant event, then the character does not feel special. They feel random and unimportant. This was true of Isabela in my playthrough when she is in fact quite pivotal. 

Sharing a dangerous experience is a sure-fire way to create a bond. There's also some statistic out there a fearful experience shared by two people tends to engender romance for some biological reason or another. Something about how fear hormones are linked to an adrenaline rush and subsequent relief. Really wish I had it on hand but I don't. How Carth, Bastila, and the player come to know each other springs to mind.

EDIT: Having a proper villain would help, too. Someone to rally against and focus your hate or maybe fascination on. Meredith was awesome but she was so far up in the ranks of the templars, her actions mired in rumor, that she was not a tangible threat. A templar with his own fears, needs, and prejudices who specifically comes down on Hawke or Bethany would have worked well. Especially if he and rival templar Carver became friends. 

erynnar wrote...
It was disjointed, and the gaps were not well explained at all. I felt as though Hawke went comatose. The story arcs didn't seem to bleed into the next very well to me. 

Especially Fenris and his romance thing (no spoilers, you know what that was) and I hardly felt my Hawke would sit around pining for three years, before things were...resolved? Three months, sure, three years? No.


I sometimes wonder if the story would have been more suited to, say, a five year timeline instead of a ten year one. The number of years appears to be arbitrary anyway if there are going to be such large chunks of time where nothing really happens.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Not only did Hawke not do anything, but so much of the M-T conflict was left in the dust. I swear Sandal did more than Hawke did by scratching his own ass.

Why not use Meredith's zeal against mages alongside with how the Arishok and the Qunari leash their mages? Why didn't the Arishok meet with Meredith, the real power of Kirkwall? Why do we always meet bat**** insane mages? Why does the plot demand stupidity from everyone?

It was just... way too unbalanced. Especially what Orsino did at the end for pro-mage people to try to make a black and white choice grey.


I got the impression that crazy people flourished in Kirkwall because the veil was thin due to the atrocities that occurred in centuries past. I wish that would have been pushed more with maybe an opportunity to fix the veil - or at least try but fail.

The mage versus templar conflict should have been pushed more, I definitely agree. What was there was so, so good. I wish I could explore it more.

Did I mention that I really liked the mage-templar quests? I don't think I did yet. 

David Gaider wrote...
It's very much a technical limitation, however, as hoorayforicecream points out above-- and, no, we don't consider it an acceptable compromise to allow happen-anywhere cinematic dialogue that can make for screwy cameras.


This is great news for me! There were many times when I initiated unique dialogue by accident in a place that just kind of sucked. I remember  I either got the request to see Goldanna or Alistair's rose while I was infiltrating Redcliffe Castle because I clicked on him instead of something else. That was indeed a let down. Limiting serious dialogue to serious settings in favor of party banter geared at the quest and environment seems far more sensible.

Modifié par pixieface, 06 août 2011 - 03:08 .


#568
Kothoses Rothenkisal

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This thread inspired me, and now a new episode of Promoting Thoughts based on the whole discussion here (well up to about page 15 when I started recording) has been uploaded.

I hope that the tone of it provides some further impetus for the sort of discussion and interaction we have seen here. Truly I think this is an example of what can be achieved through proper use of community and respectful discourse. I love reading this thread and seeing what people have to think some really excellent and eloquent posters in here that have been a joy to read. Its 4 am and I have stayed up to do this just because of the feel good factor I got from the responses to my thread.

Much love people to you all.


Video Link

Modifié par Kothoses Rothenkisal, 06 août 2011 - 03:06 .


#569
lobi

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Violent cold blooded mercenary kill for two gold coins Hawk takes offence and say's "It's Poison, it kills people".
Violent cold blooded mercenary kill for two gold coins Hawk cannot leave the area until they "do an Anakin" with the thing that is no longer their Mom.
Rise to power was not a Dragon age game, and Bioware will NEVER make another Dragon age game.

It's over people.

Modifié par lobi, 06 août 2011 - 03:12 .


#570
TEWR

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I got the impression that crazy people flourished in Kirkwall because the veil was thin due to the atrocities that occurred in centuries past. I wish that would have been pushed more with maybe an opportunity to fix the veil - or at least try but fail.

The mage versus templar conflict should have been pushed more, I definitely agree. What was there was so, so good. I wish I could explore it more.

Did I mention that I really liked the mage-templar quests? I don't think I did yet.


The thin veil only goes so far before it becomes just a very poor excuse for the game's flaws, much like the idea of Varric embellishing on certain things.

#571
erynnar

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
Just a note -- while i've complained about exactly this effect (and yes, definitely a result of interpretation but just not something i can make myself to perceive differently) this was mainly irritating because it was happening for about every conversation opportunity that i can think of. At the same time though, if it was instead just an occasional thing (like say, having Hawke/other protagonist return to his/her home and finding a note from companion requesting a meeting) it'd feel quite more acceptable and maybe even a welcome bit of variety, i think.


Part of this is a result of the way we divided each follower's content in DA2. Splitting up the game into three time periods forced us to have an "introduction" for each follower at the beginning of one-- a way to catch up and tell the player what the follower has been up to in the intervening years. We also shifted a lot more focus onto the follower personal plot arcs. Neither of these things are necessarily bad, but they did mean less content being available for "extra" dialogue, even though the overall amount of dialogue per individual follower was comparable to DAO. Simply different priorities.

So a bit of rearrangement is necessary, and perhaps some room needs to be left for "small talk" like I said earlier-- perhaps leaving the notifications for the really important stuff, and allow the player some dialogue to discover on her own. What we'll do with the notifications, or whether we'll keep them at all, I can't really say. A lot depends on adapting to the structure of the story in question.

This is very welcome, David. I've said this many times before, but my favorite DA2 character is the grand cleric. That has to do with her more or less DA:O-style dialogue which could be triggered by events involving her. It was available even without a quest marker above her head. She also had some small talk about your family. She was well portrayed. I take it the Sebestian DLC gave her more attention. I wished the companion dialogues were much like those of her. She's almost perfect. If only I could make her act sometimes and if only she had a bit more dialogue. ;)


I agree with Angry on this one. I liked the Grand Cleric's dialogue too because it was more the DAO formula. She was there, and I could have a conversation with her anytime.

#572
lobi

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Modifié par lobi, 06 août 2011 - 03:11 .


#573
erynnar

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I got the impression that crazy people flourished in Kirkwall because the veil was thin due to the atrocities that occurred in centuries past. I wish that would have been pushed more with maybe an opportunity to fix the veil - or at least try but fail.

The mage versus templar conflict should have been pushed more, I definitely agree. What was there was so, so good. I wish I could explore it more.

Did I mention that I really liked the mage-templar quests? I don't think I did yet.


The thin veil only goes so far before it becomes just a very poor excuse for the game's flaws, much like the idea of Varric embellishing on certain things.


I agree Eth, both of those things only carry the game so far before it just becomes a way to excuse the flaws.

#574
TEWR

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you know, I have to say that I didn't like how Meredith was handled after watching Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

One of the many reasons that movie is one of my favorite movies is because of the dark undertones and how it was Judge Claude Frollo's zealotry and fanaticism that drove him to do what he did.

I have yet to read the actual book, but I know it's a lot more twisted than the movie, like with Phoebus.

Meredith's zealotry would've worked perfectly for her character.

#575
Redcoat

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The problem with the "Thin Veil" of Kirkwall was that it was presented as a series of Codex entires, "The Enigma of Kirkwall", instead of actually being shown in the game - a clear example of telling instead of showing. I completely missed The Enigma of Kirkwall during my first run through, and when I actually read through it on the second playthrough, my first thought was, "Why wasn't this in the game?"