Guest_Puddi III_*
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I liked that scene.
I didn't like the mouth movements for the singing though. Didn't mesh very well. Or was it the voice that didn't fit for Leliana? I can't remember.
b1322 wrote...
I am also extremely curious to know if Bioware intends to bring back some of the depth there was in origins into da3? An examble would be when Leliana started singing that emotional song and when she sang they showed each party members reaction one by one around the camp doing different things, to her singing, it felt so real.
Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 06 août 2011 - 10:39 .
b1322 wrote...
I am also extremely curious to know if Bioware intends to bring back some of the depth there was in origins into da3? An examble would be when Leliana started singing that emotional song and when she sang they showed each party members reaction one by one around the camp doing different things, to her singing, it felt so real.
A recognition of the limits would be nice. I did see something like this in a recent Gaider interview. He said something like "we're replacing people's imagination, and we'll never be as good as that." Exactly! No matter how good the animation is, watching a pixel animated scene, you're always going to be poised on the edge of the uncanny valley. LA Noire tried to overcome this by motion capture of live actors' facial expressions, and everyone ooh's and ah's about the effect, but what I hear from people who play it is that the story just feels very limited as a result.Saintthanksgiving wrote...
The talking heads idea is a step backwards... I think thats what they are getting at here. I don't really have a problem with placing a high production value on interactions. I dont think that every conversation has to be a cinematic masterpiece.... but if you are trying to increase the quality of a game in EVERY way... including cosmetically... its an understandable notion.
An advantage of being able to initiate dialogue anywhere is that you feel like you, the player, are in control of the story. It also creates a more natural flow. I can turn to the NPC and talk to them as I would a normal person, instead of having radio silence until we're back at a home base, then having other NPCs vanish and the scene change the minute I click on that person. (for instance, some YouTube commenters joke about Varric suddenly appearing at my PC's elbow after a Fenris romance dialogue- because Varric was in the party when I initiated the dialogue with Fenris)I dont think that set locations for conversations are all that terrible, neither are plot specific encounter type conversations placed throughout the game world. The important issue will be the depth and content of the conversation, not where they happened. (I would also vote for MORE interactions, but thats a seperate issue)
Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...
b1322 wrote...
I am also extremely curious to know if Bioware intends to bring back some of the depth there was in origins into da3? An examble would be when Leliana started singing that emotional song and when she sang they showed each party members reaction one by one around the camp doing different things, to her singing, it felt so real.
That is why the Camp was such a massive thing In DA... you really have just hit the nail on the head for me, the homebase system keeps the companions seperate, isolated from each other, all their interactions coming through the protagonist.
But the Camp... it gives so much oppertunity for companions to have more than just a bit of comedy background banter with each other, the camp interactions between companions is one of the BEST things about Dragon age Origins in my opinion and one of the BIGGEST things I missed in DA 2.
Having read your post and point and been reminded of this, I can only hope the camp comes back, i had so many end of session relaxing moments with that beautiful haunting background music that DA 2 and indeed few other rpgs could not even get close to giving me.
Modifié par b1322, 06 août 2011 - 10:51 .
Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...
b1322 wrote...
I am also extremely curious to know if Bioware intends to bring back some of the depth there was in origins into da3? An examble would be when Leliana started singing that emotional song and when she sang they showed each party members reaction one by one around the camp doing different things, to her singing, it felt so real.
That is why the Camp was such a massive thing In DA... you really have just hit the nail on the head for me, the homebase system keeps the companions seperate, isolated from each other, all their interactions coming through the protagonist.
But the Camp... it gives so much oppertunity for companions to have more than just a bit of comedy background banter with each other, the camp interactions between companions is one of the BEST things about Dragon age Origins in my opinion and one of the BIGGEST things I missed in DA 2.
Having read your post and point and been reminded of this, I can only hope the camp comes back, i had so many end of session relaxing moments with that beautiful haunting background music that DA 2 and indeed few other rpgs could not even get close to giving me.
nitefyre410 wrote...
Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...
b1322 wrote...
I am also extremely curious to know if Bioware intends to bring back some of the depth there was in origins into da3? An examble would be when Leliana started singing that emotional song and when she sang they showed each party members reaction one by one around the camp doing different things, to her singing, it felt so real.
That is why the Camp was such a massive thing In DA... you really have just hit the nail on the head for me, the homebase system keeps the companions seperate, isolated from each other, all their interactions coming through the protagonist.
But the Camp... it gives so much oppertunity for companions to have more than just a bit of comedy background banter with each other, the camp interactions between companions is one of the BEST things about Dragon age Origins in my opinion and one of the BIGGEST things I missed in DA 2.
Having read your post and point and been reminded of this, I can only hope the camp comes back, i had so many end of session relaxing moments with that beautiful haunting background music that DA 2 and indeed few other rpgs could not even get close to giving me.
You know i Just had a thought it was necessarily the camp the made the scene - the camp is just setting becasue you party is traveling. You can do a scene like that in a tavern as well maybe after a rather grueling mission Varric calling for a song . I think - the scene worked so well because was the first time you actually see them all gathering up at the camp and not doing there own separate thing... If that makes anykind of sense.
Since it's so far off topic, I'll request that spell and talent upgrades should introduce additional visual flourishes. It doesn't have to be entirely new vfx, but as far as I can tell, a fully-upgraded nuclear whirlwind looks the same as a L2 dust mote. It's so boring, especially when you already have to work so hard to care about some of those upgrades.Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Making games is very much like playing them. You WANT all the spells in the mage tree, but the game limits you from having them. We WANT to give you guys things like talking anywhere, because there are some very cool things you can do with it, but we have budgets and time constraints, so we cannot do everything. Thus, like you build your mage with complimentary spells and a mix of buffs and actives, we have to build our game with what we feel will be a complimentary set of features.
Really? That scene embarrassed me. I straight up needed to close the curtains to be able to sit through the whole thing, it was so forced and unnatural. It ties with those horrible sex scenes for the most cringe-inducing abuse of design time. When in real life has something like this ever happened to you, I wonder?b1322 wrote...
I am also extremely curious to know if Bioware intends to bring back some of the depth there was in origins into da3? An examble would be when Leliana started singing that emotional song and when she sang they showed each party members reaction one by one around the camp doing different things, to her singing, it felt so real.
Modifié par devSin, 06 août 2011 - 11:05 .
b1322 wrote...
nitefyre410 wrote...
Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...
b1322 wrote...
I am also extremely curious to know if Bioware intends to bring back some of the depth there was in origins into da3? An examble would be when Leliana started singing that emotional song and when she sang they showed each party members reaction one by one around the camp doing different things, to her singing, it felt so real.
That is why the Camp was such a massive thing In DA... you really have just hit the nail on the head for me, the homebase system keeps the companions seperate, isolated from each other, all their interactions coming through the protagonist.
But the Camp... it gives so much oppertunity for companions to have more than just a bit of comedy background banter with each other, the camp interactions between companions is one of the BEST things about Dragon age Origins in my opinion and one of the BIGGEST things I missed in DA 2.
Having read your post and point and been reminded of this, I can only hope the camp comes back, i had so many end of session relaxing moments with that beautiful haunting background music that DA 2 and indeed few other rpgs could not even get close to giving me.
You know i Just had a thought it was necessarily the camp the made the scene - the camp is just setting becasue you party is traveling. You can do a scene like that in a tavern as well maybe after a rather grueling mission Varric calling for a song . I think - the scene worked so well because was the first time you actually see them all gathering up at the camp and not doing there own separate thing... If that makes anykind of sense.
It does make sense, I can just not imagine varric singing the way leliana could....
Modifié par nitefyre410, 06 août 2011 - 11:06 .
Well, since you have people in this very thread talk about shortcomings of this approach and preference for being able to initiate the conversations... you're basically ignoring the reality in order to be able to claim that.SmokePants wrote...
The notion that you have to be able to initiate conversations anywhere and everywhere is absurd. Games have been migrating ttoward "barks" for years. It's a fine solution, there's nothing wrong with it, and it does not prevent people from connecting with their companions.
Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...
But the Camp... it gives so much oppertunity for companions to have more than just a bit of comedy background banter with each other, the camp interactions between companions is one of the BEST things about Dragon age Origins in my opinion and one of the BIGGEST things I missed in DA 2.
)Modifié par Sutekh, 06 août 2011 - 11:05 .
SmokePants wrote...
I liked being told when my companions had something new to say. But perhaps a compromise could be giving them something to say at predictable intervals. For instance, in ME, some of the crew could comment on the previous mission or story beat. The player could pick up on the pattern and know precisely when to return for more new dialogue, without being prompted to do so. Although, if they did that with everybody, for every mission, that could become quite the chore.
The notion that you have to be able to initiate conversations anywhere and everywhere is absurd. Games have been migrating ttoward "barks" for years. It's a fine solution, there's nothing wrong with it, and it does not prevent people from connecting with their companions. I think the real issue is that the DA2 companions don't blow smoke up your ass and promise their first-born children to you. DAO pandered to a player-base of man-children in desperate need of an ego-stroke more than DA2 did, and I think that's the crux of the polarization. Most of this other stuff, like the loss of on-the-road dialogue is tangential nonsense.
Sutekh wrote...
Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...
But the Camp... it gives so much oppertunity for companions to have more than just a bit of comedy background banter with each other, the camp interactions between companions is one of the BEST things about Dragon age Origins in my opinion and one of the BIGGEST things I missed in DA 2.
Maybe I just have a very bad memory, but what camp interaction between companions? There was Leliana's song, a one time thing when only some of the companions reacted (not interacted), and some scenes with Dog, and that was all. Actually, the lack of interaction or reaction to some of what you're doing at camp is one of the very few things I don't like in DAO (how I would love to see Alistair's reaction when my Warden(s) invite Zevran into his tent...
This being said, with DA2 level of interaction between companions, a camp-like place would be indeed awesome. So many opportunities for banter and short dialogs, plot related or not...
And just to say, Dog does exactly the same thing in your house in DA2 (although, for some reason, the person he's going to banter with occassionally appears fully-visible in your house; just visiting, I guess).Sutekh wrote...
Maybe I just have a very bad memory, but what camp interaction between companions? There was Leliana's song, a one time thing when only some of the companions reacted (not interacted), and some scenes with Dog, and that was all. Actually, the lack of interaction or reaction to some of what you're doing at camp is one of the very few things I don't like in DAO (how I would love to see Alistair's reaction when my Warden(s) invite Zevran into his tent...
There were the post-quest automatic dialogues (or were they pre-quest automatic dialogues), but they'd never have anything to do or say with each other. The camp may as well have been empty, for all the life it had.b1322 wrote...
I think you do have a bad memory..... In camp, a lot of the companions often initiated dialogues
Some of these exist, but they're expressed as party banter while you're traveling, not in their homes. As far as having to pick a dominant romance when the time comes, I think they got stuck with four or five choices (so it's mostly about precedence, not you deciding), which is the most they've ever tried to allow (Origins only let you try two). They probably couldn't figure out how to have so many people possibly fighting over you when the time came to make a commitment.b1322 wrote...
but I agree with you about wanting to see Alistairs reaction to me inviting zevran to the tent, I would have liked that too but at least there were jealousy in dao, in da2 there were none at all, they didnt care
Modifié par devSin, 06 août 2011 - 11:20 .
SmokePants wrote...
The notion that you have to be able to initiate conversations anywhere and everywhere is absurd. Games have been migrating ttoward "barks" for years. It's a fine solution, there's nothing wrong with it, and it does not prevent people from connecting with their companions. I think the real issue is that the DA2 companions don't blow smoke up your ass and promise their first-born children to you. DAO pandered to a player-base of man-children in desperate need of an ego-stroke more than DA2 did, and I think that's the crux of the polarization. Most of this other stuff, like the loss of on-the-road dialogue is tangential nonsense.
devSin wrote...
And just to say, Dog does exactly the same thing in your house in DA2 (although, for some reason, the person he's going to banter with occassionally appears fully-visible in your house; just visiting, I guess).Sutekh wrote...
Maybe I just have a very bad memory, but what camp interaction between companions? There was Leliana's song, a one time thing when only some of the companions reacted (not interacted), and some scenes with Dog, and that was all. Actually, the lack of interaction or reaction to some of what you're doing at camp is one of the very few things I don't like in DAO (how I would love to see Alistair's reaction when my Warden(s) invite Zevran into his tent...
Nobody else ever did anything worthwhile in camp. They couldn't care less about each other. And after you followed their Q&A branch (which you could do all at once), they'd mostly only ever have two or three additional things to say (when you passed certain points on the dis/approval meter). You could click on them to start a conversation whenever you wanted, but they'd only rarely have anything new to say.
ipgd wrote...
That's because people who are happy with the cinematics don't feel as compelled to make threads as much as people who have negative complaints.rak72 wrote...
You seem to think the cinematics are more important to the players than just being able to have decent interactions, but I don't see any threads about the wonderful cinematics, I see the threads about feeling lonely & leftout of your traveling party.
For the record, you do not actually speak for everyone. I personally prefer the use of cinematics over being able to discuss the Qun in the Deep Roads. I actually don't really get why people care about this that much, but I also have the capacity to recognize that my brain is not everyone else's brain and not everyone likes the things I like and as such I don't really feel compelled to put forth my preferences as majority opinion or fact.
b1322 wrote...
I think you do have a bad memory..... In camp, a lot of the companions often initiated dialogues but I agree with you about wanting to see Alistairs reaction to me inviting zevran to the tent, I would have liked that too but at least there were jealousy in dao, in da2 there were none at all, they didnt care
Companions doing things with each other can be neat, but it runs into risk of ending like DA2 version of it did -- if that's all you ever witness, and they seemingly break their activity as soon as the protagonist appears without the least shown inclination to include him/her in it... that can result in sensation the player is just fifth wheel and everyone has way more fun without him/her around.devSin wrote...
Nobody else ever did anything worthwhile in camp. They couldn't care less about each other.
<_<SmokePants wrote...
I think the real issue is that the DA2 companions don't blow smoke up your ass and promise their first-born children to you. DAO pandered to a player-base of man-children in desperate need of an ego-stroke more than DA2 did, and I think that's the crux of the polarization. Most of this other stuff, like the loss of on-the-road dialogue is tangential nonsense.
SilentK wrote...
ipgd wrote...
That's because people who are happy with the cinematics don't feel as compelled to make threads as much as people who have negative complaints.rak72 wrote...
You seem to think the cinematics are more important to the players than just being able to have decent interactions, but I don't see any threads about the wonderful cinematics, I see the threads about feeling lonely & leftout of your traveling party.
For the record, you do not actually speak for everyone. I personally prefer the use of cinematics over being able to discuss the Qun in the Deep Roads. I actually don't really get why people care about this that much, but I also have the capacity to recognize that my brain is not everyone else's brain and not everyone likes the things I like and as such I don't really feel compelled to put forth my preferences as majority opinion or fact.
Jupp, there are those of us that respond very well to the more cinematic feel in discussions. I do at least. The little things they did and how they moved made them feel very real to me.
Sutekh wrote...
b1322 wrote...
I think you do have a bad memory..... In camp, a lot of the companions often initiated dialogues but I agree with you about wanting to see Alistairs reaction to me inviting zevran to the tent, I would have liked that too but at least there were jealousy in dao, in da2 there were none at all, they didnt care
I was talking about interaction between companions, not interaction with the Warden
And they do care in DA2, to be fair. Ever had Fenris and Anders b***ing over you? With Isabela talking them down? Priceless
I agree that DA2 went too far in everybody getting together to play cards and coming to each other with their problems, but I don't think this excuses Origins having a camp of people traveling together for so long (and through so many trials) that are so totally oblivious to each other. I'm not saying they should all be having Friday-night drinks every single night, but there has to be something other than simply "following the Warden" happening with these people who are sharing accommodations for an entire year.tmp7704 wrote...
Companions doing things with each other can be neat, but it runs into risk of ending like DA2 version of it did -- if that's all you ever witness, and they seemingly break their activity as soon as the protagonist appears without the least shown inclination to include him/her in it... that can result in sensation the player is just fifth wheel and everyone has way more fun without him/her around.
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