1502 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

I don't see what is so wrong with that Morrigan. Then again, I didn't see what was wrong with Alistair, or Zevran.

[Void251]

The new Alistair look makes him look more king-ish IMO. Zevran was almost unrecognizable however. But that Morrigan......ECK

[FieryDove]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Then again, I didn't see what was wrong with Alistair, or Zevran.

Zev has a very pinced face now and the new style making elves stickly doesn't help his look. His hair and skin tone is also not the same. But he does have the same voice so one + I guess.

Also I agree with other people. If Morrigan can't be Morrigan don't do it.

Modifié par FieryDove, 08 août 2011 - 06:01 .

[Yuqi]

BomimoDK wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

PC games stopped supporting 640*480 years ago. When are consoles going to do that?

Or, a better question, why not then start all the paraphrases at one end of the screen instead of the middle?  Having the hub in the middle necessarily limits you to using only half of the screen for each paraphrase.  A list down the side would allow significantly longer paraphrases.

Well with consoles, they have to take into account a majority of people cant afford to throw $2000+ on the latest T.V. I'm on  a tight budget,and still use the old analouge T.V to play my games. My P.C is not vamped up as the model was made five years ago.

Retarded meme is retarded. This whole 2k TV/ 2k PC is overused. How about we back it down a bit to a 500$ TV? a good Sony Bravia 3 FullHD tv costs just that.


As for when the support for that will be removed? My bet is at LEAST another generation. even at acceptable prices, some people don't exactly prioritize a TV replacement since it's considered Furniture rather than electronics by a TON of people.

 A sony Bravia here is stil $1500+ The price is also dependent on where you live,and what country. The money for a new T.V  is money I need to pay on rates/bills ect.

[KnightofPhoenix]

FieryDove wrote...
Also I agree with other people. If Morrigan can't be Morrigan don't do it.

While I despise that image, I frankly am more worried about Morrigan when it comes to writing / story.

Since I personally believe that most characters in DA2 were not written well or subtly (imo), there is little reason for me to be optimistic about how they are going to write Morrigan or how they would integrate her in a well written story.

So honestly, if it was up to me, I wouldn't bring Morrigan back until after DA3, after maybe the writing improves. If not, then I wouldn't want her to be back at all.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 août 2011 - 06:22 .

[BomimoDK]

Yuqi wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

PC games stopped supporting 640*480 years ago. When are consoles going to do that?

Or, a better question, why not then start all the paraphrases at one end of the screen instead of the middle?  Having the hub in the middle necessarily limits you to using only half of the screen for each paraphrase.  A list down the side would allow significantly longer paraphrases.

Well with consoles, they have to take into account a majority of people cant afford to throw $2000+ on the latest T.V. I'm on  a tight budget,and still use the old analouge T.V to play my games. My P.C is not vamped up as the model was made five years ago.

Retarded meme is retarded. This whole 2k TV/ 2k PC is overused. How about we back it down a bit to a 500$ TV? a good Sony Bravia 3 FullHD tv costs just that.


As for when the support for that will be removed? My bet is at LEAST another generation. even at acceptable prices, some people don't exactly prioritize a TV replacement since it's considered Furniture rather than electronics by a TON of people.

 A sony Bravia here is stil $1500+ The price is also dependent on where you live,and what country. The money for a new T.V  is money I need to pay on rates/bills ect.

Whoah! Where DO you live?

[devSin]

Mike, when it comes time to do credits, it's time for you to advocate a multi-column scroll, for the love of god. Theaters would refuse to show your movie unedited because the credit roll IS TOO DAMN LONG.

And Kate deserves feature placement in the cast list. I'm not going to say anything further.

FieryDove wrote...

I like this suggestion. Current paraphrasing doesn't work well, no matter how much you try many instances 3-4 words cannot cut the mustard. (So to speak)

I think it works well. Honestly, I have a hard time complaining about the current system (maybe some of the choices and lines they came up with, but nothing really to do with the presentation).

A list requires more vertical space than the wheel. Meaning the dialogue view would have to be made smaller, or the text would have to be made smaller. But the text still has to be visible on your TV (you can get away with micro-text on the PC version, but I doubt so much on console).

Satyricon331 wrote...

I didn't care for DA2's art direction either, whereas I thought DAO's was serviceable.  Thedas is supposed to be a gritty world that feels real, but they took a turn towards the cartoonish, I guess to differentiate themselves from games that focus more on high-end graphics.  I'm not hung up about graphics as much as art style though.  For DA3 I'd hope they drop the cartoon look, which affected not only the animations, but even people's appearance.  The men seemed to get unattractive (*to me* ahem) balloon heads that had strange neck-to-jaw transitions, whereas there a tons of good-looking DAO avatars on the boards.

I have no idea what you think is cartoonish? I couldn't even say where much of it is any more stylized than Origins.

I think the face-gen system drips ball sweat, but it's not all bad (look at Hawke's or Flemeth's face; easily better than anything possible in Origins, and your companions all look pretty well-structured). I think they just didn't have time to churn out generic faces that didn't look like caricatures (especially when trying to recreate Origins faces; those blew). And I think they may have discovered it to be pretty punishing to try to get it to support such odd nonhuman faces (qunari and elves).

FieryDove wrote...

Zev has a very pinced face now and the new style making elves stickly doesn't help his look. His hair and skin tone is also not the same. But he does have the same voice so one + I guess.

And the way his face... puckered up. I swear he looked bloated, is the only way I could describe it. Some massive allergic reaction. His throat is going to swell up, and he'll die soon, with a face looking like that.

I'm still not sure what role Zevran played, because I giggled incessantly every time he was on screen. I tried so hard not to laugh and to pay attention, but I just couldn't.

Modifié par devSin, 08 août 2011 - 07:47 .

[Xewaka]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Traps aren't a real big problem. They just need cooldowns like every other ability, and a limited lifespan to avoid setting a hojillion traps to instakill some big bad monster.

Most effective way of hunting Dragons in Baldur's Gate 2. Ah, memories.

hoorayforicecream wrote...
The stealth part gets weird though, because of limitations on how to trigger certain cutscenes. If you're stealthed and you trigger a cutscene, your entire party gets teleported to the cutscene location, everything plays, and then the battle begins. Immersion is broken, because your stealthy person is no longer stealthy, the big battle begins, and you didn't have any time to make preparations. How does one solve this problem? It certainly isn't a trivial one.

You can't just have stealthed characters not trigger cutscenes. If you're a solo rogue (or, say, your party consists of Rogue Hawke, Sebastian, Varric, Isabela all with stealth), you could theoretically stealth right past the critical path plot points in an area, unless every single one was gated somehow so you couldn't stealth past it. That would cause strangeness to occur if the cinematic occurred in, say, an open field, or a forest or a large cavern or something.

I'm gonna pull a Sylvius here and say that if cinematics break the flow of the gameplay and destroy inmersion, they should simply be removed. Certainly, removing gameplay elements (such as non-stealth combat for exploration, or  party ambush setup) in favor of more cinematics is the wrong way to go. We're supposed to be in an interactive medium. Gameplay should be the highest priority.
Then again, I'm the kind of player that enjoys stealthing by.

Modifié par Xewaka, 08 août 2011 - 08:20 .

[Erani]

Warden Alistair looks very good, imho, almost the same as in DAO. King Alistair, however, just looks weird...like he gained some weight but all of it just went to his face with his body staying the same...not nice.

Zevran's face is just terrible. Sorry BioWare but just can't be kind about that. Sexy Zev from DAO with the beautiful smile is just gone. Please fix him for future games! *begs*

Leliana looks almost the same, pretty as always. Nathaniel Howe...mmm hmmm...that man is so fine. Heh.
Cullen also got a positive upgrade.

[Aeowyn]

Savber100 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I think I've voiced my distaste for DA2(compared to DAO) enough already, but I do have ONE question I really want answered-

Art Style. For the future of the franchise. What are you all leaning towards?(This is for the fans and the devs to answer)

Personally I felt there was nothing wrong with DAO's and I hated DA2's in comparison. I imagine others feel the opposite.

I'd just like to know if future games are gonna have Morrigan's beautiful eyes or Isabella's skeleton hands.

Eww.

Morrigan's beautiful eyes? You mean this:

*snip*
And yes, that is actually Bioware's official face morph of Morrigan using DA2's "improved" engine. 

One of the fans found the .msh for Morrigan in the game files and just converted it to a .mop.  It would seem they at least made a .msh for Morrigan for DA2 but either it was (thankfully) ditched and just left in the files or its maybe in there as a prelude to her showing up in a DLC or something. 

After seeing DA2's resdesign of Alistair and Zevran, I'm demanding that they revert back the old style. 

FYI, any companion morph you create a .mop of and put into the DA2 CC will NOT look like the companion. Some textures/features doesn't transfer to the CC, so I can hardly look at that Morrigan pic and say "Holy ****".

Also, Alistair's morph looked better when it was in a better lighting.

[LPPrince]

I just...I just can't like the new art style.

I found nothing wrong with the old one. People complained of DAO having too much brown, but I noticed the greens, blues, reds, and all the other striking colors in game.

Plus, if a DAO2 were to take place in Orlais, I imagine there would be a crazy amount of vibrance. I'd love that.

But I'd HAAAAATE to see Orlais in a DA2 style. All I can think now is how drab it'd come off.

I feel like there's a serious lack of detail in the new art style.

I mean, some things were done right- Qunari look wonderful, although I'd like more of them to look like "Sten" from DAO.

Flemeth looked great.

But there were so many things that didn't sit well with me.

Everything from the candles to the tables and the architecture felt low resolution to me, or if it was in an alpha or beta stage and the high res detail wasn't added in yet.

Elves look sickly and like they're dehydrated. I'd rather have them back as they were in DAO, many of which were beautiful.

Humans looked lame. The main characters looked better than the rest and stood out, but even they had their issues, for example, their hands. There's a clip where talking to Isabella happens and she lifts her hands, and they are BONY. Its disgusting.

Then consider Merrill has nail polish(which I don't like) on her fingernails, which naturally draw attention to what- her skeletal hands.

The character creator I can't comment too much on as far as a Male Hawke is concerned. I made a FemHawke, but I was never content with her.

I wanted a sharp jawline, but couldn't get one. The hair options didn't sit well with me, especially because the best one in my opinion was the one that directly matched Leandra's. In DAO I remember creating a FemWarden with Flemeth's hair and after meeting Flemeth, I had to ditch the character because it felt so weird having the same hairdo as a main character. Couldn't really do that here unless I wanted a less than stellar looking Hawke.

And as for browns...my God. There was brown EVERYWHERE. And everything looked so drab.

Sundermount was drab, the beach was drab(man, can't we have a beach that's colorful and happy?), the boneyard was drab(but THAT one is understandable), and...well there's not that many maps now is there?

Kirkwall as a whole was brown and lifeless. Dreary as hell. Nowhere I went felt like a place I wanted to be. You know what Kirkwall SHOULD'VE looked like?

Rome in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood.

I mean, goddang. Rome is AMAZING in that game.

First off, its where you spend 95% of the game.

Second, its got its browns, blacks, blues, greens, reds, in other words, its colorful vibrant areas and its subtler mellower areas.

It was a beautiful city, that's for sure. I didn't mind staying in Rome for the whole game, it was beautiful.

So beautiful, that in my spare time when I don't want to shoot down people in Modern Warfare 2 or save the galaxy in Mass Effect, I pop in ACB, get on the back of a horse, and ride along the Roman countryside on Cloud Nine.

Its an amazing experience. Let me repeat that- AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE.

DAO was like that to me. Little details everywhere, like the ravens atop the Tower of Ishal, the books strewn about the Circle Tower, Redcliffe's layout, Morrigan's eyes, the lovely feeling I got in the Brecilian Forest- It was AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE.

But DA2 did not give me an amazing experience. It gave me a game that looked half done and incomplete. And this is still simply referring to the art style.



So if all that was a TL;DR, basically I'm hoping to God(or The Maker in this case) that DA3 is more like DAO in art style than DA2. I know others will disagree and that's fine, but I feel like I have to constantly bring this up because its one of my biggest issues with this new direction of the series.

That, and I'll always align the art style with DA2. Meaning if I see it again, I might not get the next game, no matter how good it is, because I'm afraid its more of the same, and I'm entirely unhappy with it.

Still hoping DA3 is actually DAO2, but hey, I'm a dreamer.

[Savber100]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
Also I agree with other people. If Morrigan can't be Morrigan don't do it.

While I despise that image, I frankly am more worried about Morrigan when it comes to writing / story.

Since I personally believe that most characters in DA2 were not written well or subtly (imo), there is little reason for me to be optimistic about how they are going to write Morrigan or how they would integrate her in a well written story.

So honestly, if it was up to me, I wouldn't bring Morrigan back until after DA3, after maybe the writing improves. If not, then I wouldn't want her to be back at all.

]]

Here's what confuses me, KoP... What led to the decline of quality in DA's writing? I reasoned that it was because DA2 was rushed which probably is the primary reason but you seem to imply that even with more time, the key writers of DA like Gaider and Kirby would have still miswritten DA2. So is the problem with the current rushed production of Bioware games or inherent with the current writers? 

[b1322]

LPPrince wrote...

I just...I just can't like the new art style.

I found nothing wrong with the old one. People complained of DAO having too much brown, but I noticed the greens, blues, reds, and all the other striking colors in game.

Plus, if a DAO2 were to take place in Orlais, I imagine there would be a crazy amount of vibrance. I'd love that.

But I'd HAAAAATE to see Orlais in a DA2 style. All I can think now is how drab it'd come off.

I feel like there's a serious lack of detail in the new art style.

I mean, some things were done right- Qunari look wonderful, although I'd like more of them to look like "Sten" from DAO.

Flemeth looked great.

But there were so many things that didn't sit well with me.

Everything from the candles to the tables and the architecture felt low resolution to me, or if it was in an alpha or beta stage and the high res detail wasn't added in yet.

Elves look sickly and like they're dehydrated. I'd rather have them back as they were in DAO, many of which were beautiful.

Humans looked lame. The main characters looked better than the rest and stood out, but even they had their issues, for example, their hands. There's a clip where talking to Isabella happens and she lifts her hands, and they are BONY. Its disgusting.

Then consider Merrill has nail polish(which I don't like) on her fingernails, which naturally draw attention to what- her skeletal hands.

The character creator I can't comment too much on as far as a Male Hawke is concerned. I made a FemHawke, but I was never content with her.

I wanted a sharp jawline, but couldn't get one. The hair options didn't sit well with me, especially because the best one in my opinion was the one that directly matched Leandra's. In DAO I remember creating a FemWarden with Flemeth's hair and after meeting Flemeth, I had to ditch the character because it felt so weird having the same hairdo as a main character. Couldn't really do that here unless I wanted a less than stellar looking Hawke.

And as for browns...my God. There was brown EVERYWHERE. And everything looked so drab.

Sundermount was drab, the beach was drab(man, can't we have a beach that's colorful and happy?), the boneyard was drab(but THAT one is understandable), and...well there's not that many maps now is there?

Kirkwall as a whole was brown and lifeless. Dreary as hell. Nowhere I went felt like a place I wanted to be. You know what Kirkwall SHOULD'VE looked like?

Rome in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood.

I mean, goddang. Rome is AMAZING in that game.

First off, its where you spend 95% of the game.

Second, its got its browns, blacks, blues, greens, reds, in other words, its colorful vibrant areas and its subtler mellower areas.

It was a beautiful city, that's for sure. I didn't mind staying in Rome for the whole game, it was beautiful.

So beautiful, that in my spare time when I don't want to shoot down people in Modern Warfare 2 or save the galaxy in Mass Effect, I pop in ACB, get on the back of a horse, and ride along the Roman countryside on Cloud Nine.

Its an amazing experience. Let me repeat that- AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE.

DAO was like that to me. Little details everywhere, like the ravens atop the Tower of Ishal, the books strewn about the Circle Tower, Redcliffe's layout, Morrigan's eyes, the lovely feeling I got in the Brecilian Forest- It was AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE.

But DA2 did not give me an amazing experience. It gave me a game that looked half done and incomplete. And this is still simply referring to the art style.



So if all that was a TL;DR, basically I'm hoping to God(or The Maker in this case) that DA3 is more like DAO in art style than DA2. I know others will disagree and that's fine, but I feel like I have to constantly bring this up because its one of my biggest issues with this new direction of the series.

That, and I'll always align the art style with DA2. Meaning if I see it again, I might not get the next game, no matter how good it is, because I'm afraid its more of the same, and I'm entirely unhappy with it.

Still hoping DA3 is actually DAO2, but hey, I'm a dreamer.

You just said everything I wanted to say, so all I can say is that I agree with you COMPLETELY

[LPPrince]

Hey Bioware, if it takes 6 years to make DAO2-

I'll wait.

[b1322]

Unfortunately I dont think that Bioware will ever go back to the DAO kind of game, no matter how much time they have to make it. Their new style I believe is the DA2 kind

[b1322]

And Zevran will never get his good looks back...

[Satyricon331]

devSin wrote...
I have no idea what you think is cartoonish? I couldn't even say where much of it is any more stylized than Origins.

The infamous Hayder's Razor seems cartoonish to me.  So does anime Fenris (and I *finally* put my finger on what it is about him that bothers me... his hair and body are very boyish, but the hair color and his face look much older).  And Isabela, for that matter.  DA2's vegetation looks very plastic compared to DAO's, which just looked like plain-old cgi.  The enemies flying in from the sky.  On that note, the companions flying off the ground.  The ninja mage animations.  Ok, most combat animation.  I'd definitely agree there was much in DAO they stylized or cartoonified (especially in DAA with the intrusive sustainables), but it seemed much more prominent to me in DA2.  If it's any consolation, there've been many posters on both sides of the fence on this topic from what I've seen.

I think the face-gen system drips ball sweat, but it's not all bad (look at Hawke's or Flemeth's face; easily better than anything possible in Origins, and your companions all look pretty well-structured). I think they just didn't have time to churn out generic faces that didn't look like caricatures (especially when trying to recreate Origins faces; those blew). And I think they may have discovered it to be pretty punishing to try to get it to support such odd nonhuman faces (qunari and elves).

Unless you mean f!Hawke, I really disagree.  I haven't really checked out the female Hawke possibilities, but default m!Hawke and the custom appearances weren't good imo.  Default m!Hawke suffers comparison to trailer Hawke (who was hot even though I dislike beards), but even aside from that issue, he looks fairly off to me.  


His mouth is barely wider than his nose, and the jawline has the opposite problem most men in the game have - it seems too delicate (from what you can see) and high for his face shape.  His beard shape, which flares out like a skirt, curving outward on the sides as it descends, is just all sorts of wrong.  And there's something about the way his nose tapers downward (getting narrower) that almost reminds me of Michael Jackson.  As for Flemeth, I just don't have an opinion on the female appearances.

I'm sorry to be hypercritical about it, and I don't mean to discount all the work that went into it or even how most/all people seem to disagree with me.  It's probably even fair to say these minor aesthetic issues in games matter more to me than they should.  But like LPPrince, I was never very happy with my character creations.  Moreover I never really found any men in the game I thought looked good (mainly b/c of the jaw and head shapes).  

[b1322]

Satyricon331 wrote...

devSin wrote...
I have no idea what you think is cartoonish? I couldn't even say where much of it is any more stylized than Origins.

The infamous Hayder's Razor seems cartoonish to me.  So does anime Fenris (and I *finally* put my finger on what it is about him that bothers me... his hair and body are very boyish, but the hair color and his face look much older).  And Isabela, for that matter.  DA2's vegetation looks very plastic compared to DAO's, which just looked like plain-old cgi.  The enemies flying in from the sky.  On that note, the companions flying off the ground.  The ninja mage animations.  Ok, most combat animation.  I'd definitely agree there was much in DAO they stylized or cartoonified (especially in DAA with the intrusive sustainables), but it seemed much more prominent to me in DA2.  If it's any consolation, there've been many posters on both sides of the fence on this topic from what I've seen.

I think the face-gen system drips ball sweat, but it's not all bad (look at Hawke's or Flemeth's face; easily better than anything possible in Origins, and your companions all look pretty well-structured). I think they just didn't have time to churn out generic faces that didn't look like caricatures (especially when trying to recreate Origins faces; those blew). And I think they may have discovered it to be pretty punishing to try to get it to support such odd nonhuman faces (qunari and elves).

Unless you mean f!Hawke, I really disagree.  I haven't really checked out the female Hawke possibilities, but default m!Hawke and the custom appearances weren't good imo.  Default m!Hawke suffers comparison to trailer Hawke (who was hot even though I dislike beards), but even aside from that issue, he looks fairly off to me.  


His mouth is barely wider than his nose, and the jawline has the opposite problem most men in the game have - it seems too delicate (from what you can see) and high for his face shape.  His beard shape, which flares out like a skirt, curving outward on the sides as it descends, is just all sorts of wrong.  And there's something about the way his nose tapers downward (getting narrower) that almost reminds me of Michael Jackson.  As for Flemeth, I just don't have an opinion on the female appearances.

I'm sorry to be hypercritical about it, and I don't mean to discount all the work that went into it or even how most/all people seem to disagree with me.  It's probably even fair to say these minor aesthetic issues in games matter more to me than they should.  But like LPPrince, I was never very happy with my character creations.  Moreover I never really found any men in the game I thought looked good (mainly b/c of the jaw and head shapes).  

The female Hawke´s werent much better... I couldnt customize that much with her face or anything as I could in DA0 and you are right about the cartoonish style in DA2, and yes Fenris did kinda look boyish, I have said it many times before, the elves looked much better in DAO.

[LPPrince]

I believe I read somewhere that Mike Laidlaw said something along the lines of returning to the hardcore RPG style of Origins is unlikely because its a 180º turn and they've already done that.

If this is true(and I would hate it if it is) I honestly think I'll be giving up on the DA franchise.

Hell, the whole reason why I was drawn to DAO was because it was a hardcore PC RPG styled game on consoles. It was accessible, it was easy to play, and it was FUN.

And if DA2 is any indication of where the future of the games are headed(i.e. away from that hardcore PC RPG styled game) I can't see myself enjoying it.

I could be wrong. Maybe DA3 being different would still be fun and blow me away. But it being different is not why I got into the franchise. I got into it because it reminded me of the games of yesteryear, albeit modernized a tad and placed on consoles, where you'd never expect them to be.

In that regard, DA2 is a flop. DAO on the other hand, a huge success.

I reeeeeally don't want to give up DA. I don't. And if I have to keep telling the devs what I like and what I don't like to get my point across, I will. I know that I'm not special and the future games won't be catered specifically to me, but you know what?

I'm not alone. And I can hope and dream that those future games are made with us in mind, or I can act and push the ideas of myself and those that believe in the same things I do to those directly responsible for crafting the product.

As good or bad as Legacy is, I'm still not getting it, just to get my point across.

I hope others find nice ways to let the devs in on their hopes and dreams for the series.

This thread itself, with so many dev responses? I love it.

I HAAAAATE some responses(i.e. not being able to chat up my squaddies wherever and whenever I please), but I'm glad we're GETTING these responses.

Now I just have to hope I'm one of the ones lucky enough to get a response or two from a dev in this thread.

Or better yet, eleventeen responses.

[vania z]

Here we can post our feedback on da2 and some suggestions, right?

I'd like to see some improvements in relationships system. Current system with rival romance and rival friends seems a bit strange to me - why someone would love me or fight for me if we have nothing in common? I have thought for several days how to improve it and came up with 2-dimensional system.

Bioware had already done something similar with dnd games - there was good-evil dimension and lawful-chaotic. To describe relationships I suggest to use friend-rival axis and respect axis. Friend-rival goes from -100 for rival to +100 for friend. Respect goes from 0 to 100. Absolute value of friend score can't be higher than the value of respect.

You get friend/rival points for actions toward your companion(generally, being kind and helpful earns you friend score).

Respect is earned for actions which agree with companions principles(it does not matter whether you have left your party members at home or not, respect should change anyway).

How this should work, considering no party member's personality can be changed:
(using DA:O/DA2 as example)
You have come with Morrigan and Oghren and saved Branka. You will earn disrespect from Shale anyway(someone must have told her about what happened:D )

You have been helping mages all the way through dragon age 2:
1) you helped Fenris with his personal problems. You have 0 respect and 0 friend score. He will leave you at the end.
2) you have been dickish to him and didn't care when he asked for help. You have 0 respect and 100 rival score. He will fight you at the end.
You have been pro-templar all the way through dragon age 2:
1) you helped Fenris with his personal problems. You have 100 respect and 100 friend score. He will fight for you at the end.
2) you have been dickish to him and didn't care when he asked for help. You have 100 respect and 100 rival score. He will fight for you at the end.
- as you can see, using this respect/friend/rival system it seems more logical. If he has respect for you - he will help you, even if you are not at the best terms with each other. On the other side - if you are friendly with him, but he has no respect for you - your friendship will end after the first obstacle.

Same goes for rival romance.

What we lose is that there will be no more romance with Merrill if we can't agree on the role of magic and are rude to each other. Well, there won't be romance if writers do not come up with some kind of BDSM romance:D

If PC can influence companion's character:
I think it should be linked to some event in the life of the companion, not friend/rival or respect score. In real life you will not have any influence on it, since you are not a friend and your companion would not likely ask for your help. In the game it will look like random change of heart, so I do not think it is the best thing to do, but I can't come up with anything better at the moment:(

Of course, in real life you can change someone's opinion with talking alone, but you need a lot of time for that and this someone should have at least some respect to you. It seems to me too difficult to implement correctly in game.

Sorry if it is too diffuclt to read, I'm not perfect with english(yet:D )

[Shadowlit_Rogue]

The new art style didn't necessarily bug me as much as the character retcons did - but that is to say, the style didn't really stand out very much. Maybe it was never really given a chance to shine, since the best looking parts of the game are the ones the camera doesn't like you pointing at: the tops of the Gallows, the Chantry, and the Viscount's Keep. The Deep Roads looked good, too, save for the statue the dwarves loved enough to copy and paste all around. I don't know, it was one of those things I didn't think need changing; I would have bought DA2 and DA3 even if they had looked just like DA:O.

I'd like to see the new art style really flex its muscles in some way, but that would require the level designers to either put more things at eye level or make more vistas/hills. Orzammar, even with its singular path through the city, had tons of character and quite a bit to see just running through, as did Ostagar. As it stands, pretty much all I remember of Kirkwall are gray walls and how it's always sunny in Darktown (I cannot repeat that enough xD).

[LPPrince]

Man, all this talk of Dragon Age 2 is making me want to play guess what?

ORIGINS.

(that's a problem)

EDIT- Well, only a problem if I don't want to play DA2.

And I don't want to play DA2, so that's a problem.

Modifié par LPPrince, 08 août 2011 - 11:59 .

[Fallstar]

The new art style felt far too 'clean' to me. Its hard to describe, kind of like everything has sharply defined edges, especially in Kirkwall. It just makes the game look less atmospheric. And as Shadowlot Rogue said, I recently read a post about how the best looking parts of the game are at an abnormal camera angle, and I checked it out in hightown, and they're right: when you look up, the game looks a whole lot prettier.

Thing is, I did look up/around regularly in DA:O because many of the environments are unique and awe-inspiring - I loved Orzammar/Deep Roads. But when you're trapped in a city which looks very similar wherever you go, you don't really have a reason to look around and see what are actually some pretty neat graphics.

[nitefyre410]

Savber100 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

^ That has been gone over in other threads that is not a Finalized Morrigan... we can resume normal night of "whack the devs" 


To honest the art style of the both games is .... Blah and Bleh.  Niether artstyle is something to right home to mother about.

I can only imagine how bad the finalized Morrigan would look. *glances at Alistair and Zev*  

And you're right to a degree, DA:O art style was rather grim and brown but even that pales in comparison to these new designs. 

DA2's cartoony look is doing no credit to the original vision of making a game with the tone of Game of Thrones. 

Oh  DA   and DA 2  have loonnng way to go  before  even coming close the looking anywhere close to the tone of  Game of Throne  in art and in Story.   World of  Game of Throne or more correctly how  they  brought the world of Songs of Fire and Ice to life  is far more rich and  devervse in settting , landscapes and cultures.     Lets take armors for example...  Elven  armor in DA:O is pretty much the same as  Human Armor except for  different designs on the surface but the at the core they are still very much  same.    

Modifié par nitefyre410, 08 août 2011 - 12:27 .

[Wozearly]

vania z wrote...

Here we can post our feedback on da2 and some suggestions, right?

Bioware had already done something similar with dnd games - there was good-evil dimension and lawful-chaotic. To describe relationships I suggest to use friend-rival axis and respect axis. Friend-rival goes from -100 for rival to +100 for friend. Respect goes from 0 to 100. Absolute value of friend score can't be higher than the value of respect.

You get friend/rival points for actions toward your companion(generally, being kind and helpful earns you friend score).

Respect is earned for actions which agree with companions principles(it does not matter whether you have left your party members at home or not, respect should change anyway).

This probably isn't the best thread for general feedback on da2 and suggestions - the Constructive Criticism thread is more likely to be seen and read. A couple of the devs have come in here to talk about the original thread topic on community engagement, and Mike in particular has been commenting on ideas and suggestions, but not all of them.

In terms of the friend/rival respect/disrespect scale, my concern would be that the additional layer would add a layer of complexity that wouldn't generate a lot of value unless you had subtly different interactions for, say, each 25pts in rival/frienship and each 25pts in respect...which would then give you 64 potential outcomes, which would put a lot of burden on writing.

Personally, I think the rivalry concept is a good one as it gives a positive element to doing things that your companions dislike, removing the incentive in games like DA:O to tactically mix around your companions so that if you were going to do something evil, you had your 'evil team' with you and vice versa. Locking it when it hit maximum was also a sensible move.

What I didn't like was that whether rivalry meant "I disagree with you, but respect you and so will fight hard for you all the same" or "I disagree with you, but you're the best hope of getting what I want so I'll stick with you" varied almost randomly depending on the character. So I like the general thrust of your idea, which aims to introduce something more intuitive to this angle.

However, rather than a separate scale you could have a few flags for critical decisions and interactions that shape how a future event goes.

For example, you've supported the mages in ways that would make Fenris feel betrayed  and that he can't agree with (ie. you've picked up a few decision flags that go against what Fenris believes in). At a critical moment, he confronts you about this in front of Anders, forcing you to either openly declare a sides in the conflict, or fudge it by saying your pursuing your own agenda.

If Fenris likes and trusts you, he might be willing to go along with it. If he's not so certain about you, he may leave the party. If he already sees you as a rival to his interests, he may decide to attack you there and then...or wait for the opportune moment to betray you in return.

All that said...these concepts are already a DA and Bioware staple. DA:O being a particularly striking example of this, where Zevran might betray you if he disliked you, Sten reserved the right to clout you in a certain situation, Morrigan and Alistair can abandon you if you let them down when the final battle is in sight and Shale, Wynne and Leliana all had critical moments where you could do something so awful (in their eyes) that they turned on you to try to kill you.

On a "Grade A scumbag" playthrough, you can trigger all of these and have a distinctly companion-lite endgame.

Roll back time a bit, and the likes of Bastila, Juhani, Jolee and Mission in KOTOR could end up facing you down rather than standing by your side. These types of critical, often quite emotionally-charged decisions for the player, are great. Carving a bloody path through former allies to take my place as a Sith Lord was a highly memorable moment in the game.

So I'm not sure it necessarily needs a new scale. I think this type of companion interaction just needs to be blended into the decisions that come up so you get confronted with some pretty dramatic choices, or some very notable consequences.

Modifié par Wozearly, 08 août 2011 - 12:33 .