1502 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlasskiwi]

vania z wrote...

Here we can post our feedback on da2 and some suggestions, right?

I'd like to see some improvements in relationships system. Current system with rival romance and rival friends seems a bit strange to me - why someone would love me or fight for me if we have nothing in common? I have thought for several days how to improve it and came up with 2-dimensional system. -snip to avoid long quote- 

I always saw rivalry as an disagreement on a core matter. Something that matters a lot to the follower but you don't agree with. When it's maxed out both of you simply agree to disagree. I have friendships like that in real life. One of my closest friends believes in god while I don't and we often debate the matter but ultimately we have agreed to disagree.

I think that the system could use some work and improvements still but I like it better than the system they used in Origins. I think it might have been a mistake to call it rivalry and make it red. Especially when friendship is blue. I can't help but thing of the paragon/renegade system from Mass Effect. Rivalry doesn't necessarily mean evil.

[nitefyre410]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Quote for the awesome... . Bravo .  I agree

Why I may be the biggest  fan of the DA 2 art style  cartoony it is not  


Edit : Sniped because someone  'd in  quoted before me .  jk

While the people in game are made from rubber instead of pen and pencil visually doesn't change that art style to me imho is made to appeal to kiddies.

Example A.



Example B.

http://social.biowar...94031/3#7494381

If disagree with me the broodmother will slam dunk you.

http://social.biowar...4031/11#7498248

Well sir  --- tell the  Broodmother to bring it on cause  I disagree.  

Both ogres are  hideous and I spend less time looking at the detail and more time focusing on  killing it before it goes. 

Like I said  both style are just meh  - both DA:O and DA 2. both are rather gernic  typical Western Fantasy Art style. 

edit:  I hope the Irony of the fact that I have DA avatar and you have Sarutobi Asuma  in your avatar and we are debating   about  the art style is not lost on you ya  cause I find that Avatar  hilarous.  

Edit 2:  I find Telabubbies  far more terrorfying that Ogres ... those things need to be wiped from the face of the planet in a purifying  fire.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 08 août 2011 - 02:36 .

[b1322]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
While the people in game are made from rubber instead of pen and pencil visually doesn't change that art style to me imho is made to appeal to kiddies.

Then I am not the only one thinking that

[Spell Singer]

I have to say I enjoyed being able to click on the NPCs and get their comments on what was going on and having more of that would be good. I don't have any negative issues with specific places triggering conversations...that was in ME2 and Awakening and worked particularily well in both cases. Party banter was always enjoyable, and I'd be keen to have my character toss in a bit or even start some. I don't see why you could not banter with your lover, or tease varric or groan over some of the bad puns jokes whatever. Even an occasional "Isabella!" over some of the more outrageous things.

I understand that would require cutting content but consider that most combats are forgetable while it is the conversations that advance the story we are participating in would it be out of line to suggest less bashing and more talking? It is like we get a home in kirkwall but yet the number of times it is used is minimal and those are to do with the mutt (not that they aren't great varric teaching my dog to gamble has me in stiches) so not everyone even sees them. But why don't you have a gathering of nobles or something so that people get the feeling that Kirkwall is alive? I was expecting we would have at least thrown a party since the upper floor of the side chamber seemed exactly suited for this.

Speaking from my experience as an online GM making a place come alive has a lot to do with the people the players interact with. Thinking about it I'm not sure I would say that I feel my characters have that strong a connection with Kirkwall, why should you fight to protect it from the disaster that sweeps over it at the end of act 2? Why is this place now a home you are willing to fight for? True this is your mothers old home but you (the character) have no ties here, or if you do they are built in time that passes and you don't see. Why not just "when the going gets tough the tough get going?" Buying into why you are saving Feraldan seemed more natural...and I'm not sure why since arguably you likely spent more time in Kirkwall then you do in the orgin story and ostagar. It is a bit like the business venture you may be a partner in, you are a partner yet you don't even get a letter from your partner saying what is making for money...or a comment from Bodan that this months upkeep on the mansion came out of our share. Or to be asked to pay some gold for the mansion. A lot of this is immersion related and as such is window dressing but well it is an important part of sucking in the players. Your interaction with your siblings and mother always struck me as a central focus to the game, and finding out about your father in legacy was a bit of icing on the cake. But at least one of the responses I felt was a bit mild for the reveal...even the most mild mannered person would have reacted a lot more strongly to that I'd think.

[Addai]

Persephone wrote...

Strange. Am I the only one who preferred most of the DAII style over the DAO art style? While improvements are needed (Lighting is what makes King Alistair look chubby for example, I saw the model, it looks yummy outside) , but I do not think that DAO darkspawn are any better than DAII darskspawn. They are grinning orcs, my roommate even thinks they look adorable (She wants an ogre for a pet...) 

IMHO the body models are vastly superior, I like the darker look and Kirkwall has some GORGEOUS buildings. (I.E. The Chantry) I love the elven redesigns (Crowd NPCs were meh though), I.E. Merrill. Gorgeous, those eyes! Zev on the other hand could have been done better. (Using a mod) The Qunari are bloody perfect.

As for cartoony:

*snip*

vs.



Hmmmmmm....

Fable III ...now THAT is cartoony.

That DA2 shot is from a trailer, not from in-game.

Whether the art style can be called "cartoony" is largely subjective, I think.  It is certainly a word that comes to mind when I see the new art style.  It's a mixture of stylization over realism, some of the exaggerated details like the spikiness and exploding bodies, and the lack of realistic looking faces- which is a texture thing, I guess.  Yes, IMO, it's cartoony and that detracts from the dark, mature theme of the game for me.

Edit:  And Fable III is clearly meant to have a Disney look, so there's no use in comparing the two.

Modifié par Addai67, 08 août 2011 - 03:05 .

[vania z]

Yellow Words wrote...

I always saw rivalry as an disagreement on a core matter. Something that matters a lot to the follower but you don't agree with. When it's maxed out both of you simply agree to disagree. I have friendships like that in real life. One of my closest friends believes in god while I don't and we often debate the matter but ultimately we have agreed to disagree. 

But you do agree on some other core matters, right? 
The problem with da2 can also be that each companion has only 1 core matter.

[Atakuma]

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Strange. Am I the only one who preferred most of the DAII style over the DAO art style? While improvements are needed (Lighting is what makes King Alistair look chubby for example, I saw the model, it looks yummy outside) , but I do not think that DAO darkspawn are any better than DAII darskspawn. They are grinning orcs, my roommate even thinks they look adorable (She wants an ogre for a pet...) 

IMHO the body models are vastly superior, I like the darker look and Kirkwall has some GORGEOUS buildings. (I.E. The Chantry) I love the elven redesigns (Crowd NPCs were meh though), I.E. Merrill. Gorgeous, those eyes! Zev on the other hand could have been done better. (Using a mod) The Qunari are bloody perfect.

As for cartoony:

*snip*

vs.



Hmmmmmm....

Fable III ...now THAT is cartoony.

That DA2 shot is from a trailer, not from in-game.

That shot was made using in-game assets, so it doesn't matter

[Addai]

Atakuma wrote...
That shot was made using in-game assets, so it doesn't matter

Sure it does.  An air-brushed marketing shot does not depict what the game actually looks like.

The criticisms of it being "cartoony" also apply to the exaggerated combat animations, as well.

[Atakuma]

Edit: Not worth arguing over

Modifié par Atakuma, 08 août 2011 - 03:25 .

[Addai]

LPPrince wrote...
I wanted a sharp jawline, but couldn't get one.

Yes, the pork faces need to DIAF.

And as for browns...my God. There was brown EVERYWHERE. And everything looked so drab.

The irony is rich.

[TheAwesomologist]

Persephone wrote...

Strange. Am I the only one who preferred most of the DAII style over the DAO art style? While improvements are needed (Lighting is what makes King Alistair look chubby for example, I saw the model, it looks yummy outside) , but I do not think that DAO darkspawn are any better than DAII darskspawn. They are grinning orcs, my roommate even thinks they look adorable (She wants an ogre for a pet...) 

IMHO the body models are vastly superior, I like the darker look and Kirkwall has some GORGEOUS buildings. (I.E. The Chantry) I love the elven redesigns (Crowd NPCs were meh though), I.E. Merrill. Gorgeous, those eyes! Zev on the other hand could have been done better. (Using a mod) The Qunari are bloody perfect.

As for cartoony:
snip


vs.
snip


Hmmmmmm....

Fable III ...now THAT is cartoony.

IMO it certainly felt like Darkspawn in DA:O were more frightening, hurlocks especially. In DA2 the hurlocks look plastic and exploding like LEGO people didn't help. The Genlock redesign isn't terrible, but they don't remind me of Genlocks from DA:O in the slightest. The only Darkspawn who remained familiar looking were Ogres.

Someone made a great observation a few days ago about Kirkwall, that while the city is nice, it's only when you stop and angle the camera in ways you wouldn't normally while playing the game that you notice these vistas. If the nice stuff isn't at eye level then it is mostly absent. This was not a problem for Legacy so this may just be a matter of improving level design.

Lastly you know what is cartoony? Swinging around a big sword as if it were made of paper. I like the new combat speed, but the animation was very cartoony and over the top. So maybe the art itself isn't cartoony but the style went from dark and gritty in DA:O to saturday morning adventure cartoon in DA2.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Savber100 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
Also I agree with other people. If Morrigan can't be Morrigan don't do it.

While I despise that image, I frankly am more worried about Morrigan when it comes to writing / story.

Since I personally believe that most characters in DA2 were not written well or subtly (imo), there is little reason for me to be optimistic about how they are going to write Morrigan or how they would integrate her in a well written story.

So honestly, if it was up to me, I wouldn't bring Morrigan back until after DA3, after maybe the writing improves. If not, then I wouldn't want her to be back at all.

]]

Here's what confuses me, KoP... What led to the decline of quality in DA's writing? I reasoned that it was because DA2 was rushed which probably is the primary reason but you seem to imply that even with more time, the key writers of DA like Gaider and Kirby would have still miswritten DA2. So is the problem with the current rushed production of Bioware games or inherent with the current writers?

In my opinion / impression, it's a mix of both time and overall design philosophy. I don't think it's individual writers. 
Bioware games all have very similar stories or presentation, yes including DA2 that was supposed to deviate from it.
They all have the same bipolar mindset, leaning towards manichean even if they name it "renegade / paragon", or even if they do not give it any name at all. They still have the hero's journey as model, it doesn't matter if the hero fails or not. They still make the people around you grossly incompetent to give you the illusion that the PC is important. They still resort to nonhuman elements to move the plot....etc

I felt DA2 was an extreme of that (to a lesser extent ME2), but I think the problem is more fundamental. DA:O did not have a good story imo. It wasn't as bad or annoying as DA2's for me, but other than several characters, I never saw any writing brilliance. Same with ME1.

Furthermore, with ME2 and DA2, I think there is a deliberate move to make characters especially less subtle and more bombastic. Hollywood-esque even.

All of that is just my impression though, I cannot claim to know what's in their heads or what they intend. That is simply how I percieve their work.

[Wulfram]

TheAwesomologist wrote...

In DA2 the hurlocks look plastic and exploding like LEGO people didn't help.

In fairness, they, and everyone else, do rather less of that after the patch.

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
That shot was made using in-game assets, so it doesn't matter

Sure it does.  An air-brushed marketing shot does not depict what the game actually looks like.

The criticisms of it being "cartoony" also apply to the exaggerated combat animations, as well.

It was the first screenshot I had ready at hand. I could post others, there are some in my gallery as well. DAII is a lot of things but cartoony it is not.

As for combat moves, that's debatable. I found the ogre killing scene in DAO to be far more exaggerated than agile rogues jumping around in DAII. (And I wasn't fond of that either)

[TheRealJayDee]

Addai67 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
That shot was made using in-game assets, so it doesn't matter

Sure it does.  An air-brushed marketing shot does not depict what the game actually looks like.

The criticisms of it being "cartoony" also apply to the exaggerated combat animations, as well.

I just recently watched the launch trailer again. Looked nice, certainly. Especially Hawke showing some emotion at the sight of his dead sister...

[Persephone]

TheAwesomologist wrote...

Lastly you know what is cartoony? Swinging around a big sword as if it were made of paper.

Both DAO (Too clunky) and DAII (Too fast) got that wrong. But guess what? I'm not looking for realism like that in an RPG. That's what LARPs are for, in my opinion. And as for two-handers, I preferred the animations from DAII.

[Persephone]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
That shot was made using in-game assets, so it doesn't matter

Sure it does.  An air-brushed marketing shot does not depict what the game actually looks like.

The criticisms of it being "cartoony" also apply to the exaggerated combat animations, as well.

I just recently watched the launch trailer again. Looked nice, certainly. Especially Hawke showing some emotion at the sight of his dead sister...

My Lady Hawke did show emotion over Bethany dying in DAII as well. (More emotion than any Warden ever showed about anything. Beyond the blank "Duh!" stare...) I do miss that scene from the trailer though, it was very moving indeed.

[TEWR]

vania z wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

I always saw rivalry as an disagreement on a core matter. Something that matters a lot to the follower but you don't agree with. When it's maxed out both of you simply agree to disagree. I have friendships like that in real life. One of my closest friends believes in god while I don't and we often debate the matter but ultimately we have agreed to disagree. 

But you do agree on some other core matters, right? 
The problem with da2 can also be that each companion has only 1 core matter.

The thing I disliked about the F/R system was how you could be pro-mage and an ass to Anders and he acts like you're anti-mage when really.... you're just anti-Anders.

[Atakuma]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

vania z wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

I always saw rivalry as an disagreement on a core matter. Something that matters a lot to the follower but you don't agree with. When it's maxed out both of you simply agree to disagree. I have friendships like that in real life. One of my closest friends believes in god while I don't and we often debate the matter but ultimately we have agreed to disagree. 

But you do agree on some other core matters, right? 
The problem with da2 can also be that each companion has only 1 core matter.

The thing I disliked about the F/R system was how you could be pro-mage and an ass to Anders and he acts like you're anti-mage when really.... you're just anti-Anders.

Anders is a self righteous douche, so I think that actually fits his characher. :innocent:

[TEWR]

Persephone wrote...

TheAwesomologist wrote...

Lastly you know what is cartoony? Swinging around a big sword as if it were made of paper.

Both DAO (Too clunky) and DAII (Too fast) got that wrong. But guess what? I'm not looking for realism like that in an RPG. That's what LARPs are for, in my opinion. And as for two-handers, I preferred the animations from DAII.

DAII got the animations perfect, as it is indeed realistic how fast they swing the greatswords. What they didn't get perfect is when Carver says "I'm.... getting tired" when he loses all of his stamina, and his attack speed is the same. If you say you're tired, your attack speed should change (see my post many pages back on here: http://social.biowar...ndex/7992640/16)


Also, the width of the swords is too much, but that has nothing to do with the animations themselves. Might of the Sten should be as wide as they ever become.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 août 2011 - 03:50 .

[Blastback]

Persephone wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
That shot was made using in-game assets, so it doesn't matter

Sure it does.  An air-brushed marketing shot does not depict what the game actually looks like.

The criticisms of it being "cartoony" also apply to the exaggerated combat animations, as well.

As for combat moves, that's debatable. I found the ogre killing scene in DAO to be far more exaggerated than agile rogues jumping around in DAII. (And I wasn't fond of that either)

Thing was it was less prevelent in Origins.  Heck, it didn't  even happen every time I fought an Ogre.  But you do get rediculous jumps and rushes and disapear then reapear happen every fight in DA2.

[TEWR]

Atakuma wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

vania z wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

I always saw rivalry as an disagreement on a core matter. Something that matters a lot to the follower but you don't agree with. When it's maxed out both of you simply agree to disagree. I have friendships like that in real life. One of my closest friends believes in god while I don't and we often debate the matter but ultimately we have agreed to disagree. 

But you do agree on some other core matters, right? 
The problem with da2 can also be that each companion has only 1 core matter.

The thing I disliked about the F/R system was how you could be pro-mage and an ass to Anders and he acts like you're anti-mage when really.... you're just anti-Anders.

Anders is a self righteous douche, so I think that actually fits his characher. :innocent:

Hah touche

[Addai]

Persephone wrote...
It was the first screenshot I had ready at hand. I could post others, there are some in my gallery as well. DAII is a lot of things but cartoony it is not.

Again, that is your perception/ opinion.  As this is a common criticism of DA2's art style, obviously others disagree.

[Erani]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

DAII got the animations perfect, as it is indeed realistic how fast they swing the greatswords. What they didn't get perfect is when Carver says "I'm.... getting tired" when he loses all of his stamina, and his attack speed is the same. If you say you're tired, your attack speed should change (see my post many pages back on here: http://social.biowar...ndex/7992640/16)


Also, the width of the swords is too much, but that has nothing to do with the animations themselves. Might of the Sten should be as wide as they ever become.

I agree with you 100%

[asindre]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The thing I disliked about the F/R system was how you could be pro-mage and an ass to Anders and he acts like you're anti-mage when really.... you're just anti-Anders.

I agree with this
When I was anti-mage I couldn't get to full rivalry with Fenris because I was being nice when talking too him.
If the F/R system continues to DA3 we should only get F/R points when doing/ talking about what the companion likes for example mage/templar with Fenris and Anders.