1502 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

Erani wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

DAII got the animations perfect, as it is indeed realistic how fast they swing the greatswords. What they didn't get perfect is when Carver says "I'm.... getting tired" when he loses all of his stamina, and his attack speed is the same. If you say you're tired, your attack speed should change (see my post many pages back on here: http://social.biowar...ndex/7992640/16)


Also, the width of the swords is too much, but that has nothing to do with the animations themselves. Might of the Sten should be as wide as they ever become.

I agree with you 100%

I agree as well - I think  my biggest issues was the  DA:O animations looked like they were trying to give  the guy a love tap with sword and  swing at  target  and through the target.

[Atakuma]

nitefyre410 wrote...

I agree as well - I think  my biggest issues was the  DA:O animations looked like they were trying to give  the guy a love tap with sword and  swing at  target  and through the target.

They were basically large baseball bats.

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It was the first screenshot I had ready at hand. I could post others, there are some in my gallery as well. DAII is a lot of things but cartoony it is not.

Again, that is your perception/ opinion.  As this is a common criticism of DA2's art style, obviously others disagree.

Common? It's another bandwagon jumper that came up months after the release. Much like the ludicrous "Awzum button" jokes. Tedious, really.

And that is my opinion as well, dear Addai. So don't hit me.

[Persephone]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Erani wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

DAII got the animations perfect, as it is indeed realistic how fast they swing the greatswords. What they didn't get perfect is when Carver says "I'm.... getting tired" when he loses all of his stamina, and his attack speed is the same. If you say you're tired, your attack speed should change (see my post many pages back on here: http://social.biowar...ndex/7992640/16)


Also, the width of the swords is too much, but that has nothing to do with the animations themselves. Might of the Sten should be as wide as they ever become.

I agree with you 100%

I agree as well - I think  my biggest issues was the  DA:O animations looked like they were trying to give  the guy a love tap with sword and  swing at  target  and through the target.

Oh maker, that metaphor is spot on....

[nitefyre410]

Atakuma wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

I agree as well - I think  my biggest issues was the  DA:O animations looked like they were trying to give  the guy a love tap with sword and  swing at  target  and through the target.

They were basically large baseball bats.

Yeah and even  the best hitter  knows  to follow through with swing and not stop  when you make contact. 

They were more like Whack a mole mallets... lets play wake a darkspawn.

[bEVEsthda]

Persephone wrote...

Strange. Am I the only one who preferred most of the DAII style over the DAO art style? While improvements are needed (Lighting is what makes King Alistair look chubby for example, I saw the model, it looks yummy outside) , but I do not think that DAO darkspawn are any better than DAII darskspawn. They are grinning orcs, my roommate even thinks they look adorable (She wants an ogre for a pet...) 

IMHO the body models are vastly superior, I like the darker look and Kirkwall has some GORGEOUS buildings. (I.E. The Chantry) I love the elven redesigns (Crowd NPCs were meh though), I.E. Merrill. Gorgeous, those eyes! Zev on the other hand could have been done better. (Using a mod) The Qunari are bloody perfect.

As for cartoony:



vs.



Hmmmmmm....

Fable III ...now THAT is cartoony.

And you think this post was in a honest spirit?
Or relevant?

Fable III or these cherry picked images (the DA2 not even from the game) doesn't matter. Neither does the word "cartoony" in itself. The DA2 art direction is disgusting and repulsing for many of us (a lot of us, actually), and it goes much deeper than the mere graphics. It's in the combat animations, it's in the combat skills/effects, it's in the mood of the game. The makeover of Isabela and Flemeth another example
"Cartoony" just as "anime", is just a word that is used to describe the disgustingly repulsive and insulting properties of DA2 art direction. Discussing the word "cartoony" or what, has no bearing on that. If you proove it's not cartoony, it doesn't matter because DA2 is still as disgusting. It remains what it is.

Fot me personally this is so much more about style of design than rendering. On the contrary, I kinda like the way DA2 is rendered/textured. The watercolor effect. Even if that can be called cartoony. I like it, even if I liked the goache effect of DA:O more. That's just personal though. I'm sure many who bring up this want more realism.
What I don't like is Tidus-Fenris, his grandmother (Flemeth), comic-cartoon-stereotype ****tification of Isabela, spikes, feathers, jaggy edges, horns, semiautomatic crossbow with all kinds of other fantastic effects, single swordsweeps that hits every foe in the coartyard, even far away, but no friend, gameplay that only emphasize something meant to be "fun combat action",  dialogue with the single purpose to surprise with cheekky answers and no other function, etc, All that crap is insulting to me. It tells me this game is aimed at kids (at best) and that I can go f* myself. An insult! Alternatively it suggests something else, but that only makes things worse. This is the "cartoony"/"anime" that I hate.

A polished DA2 is as repulsive as before. So everything M.Laidlaw and co discuss, fixing waves, re-used environments etc, will do nothing for DA3 as far as I'm concerned. What is needed is to treat both the game and the gamers differently.

 

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 08 août 2011 - 04:18 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It was the first screenshot I had ready at hand. I could post others, there are some in my gallery as well. DAII is a lot of things but cartoony it is not.

Again, that is your perception/ opinion.  As this is a common criticism of DA2's art style, obviously others disagree.

Common? It's another bandwagon jumper that came up months after the release. Much like the ludicrous "Awzum button" jokes. Tedious, really.

No, the issue of graphics and art style had always been questionned before release even. I remember the discussions in the Morri thread. And there were several threads about it in the DA2 section.

It's not a "bandwagon jumper", whatever that means.

[Blastback]

Persephone wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It was the first screenshot I had ready at hand. I could post others, there are some in my gallery as well. DAII is a lot of things but cartoony it is not.

Again, that is your perception/ opinion.  As this is a common criticism of DA2's art style, obviously others disagree.

Common? It's another bandwagon jumper that came up months after the release. Much like the ludicrous "Awzum button" jokes. Tedious, really.

And that is my opinion as well, dear Addai. So don't hit me.

Awesome button jokes are great.  As long as they relate to this video

www.youtube.com/watch

"Push my awesome button Joel":lol:

[Wulfram]

The graphical style isn't cartoony. I don't necessarily think it's a great improvement on Origins but it's not cartoony.

For the combat animations, I think it's variable and depends on weapon style. Two handed is an improvement on Origins painfully slow auto attacks, but seem too effortless, and could perhaps be slowed down a smidge if only so that the individual strokes could do more actual damage. Dual wielding is overly flashy, while Origins was pretty good. Mage is an improvement. Archery is a mild improvement for autoattack, and avoids the horribly long activations for talents. Sword and shield is a fairly neutral - perhaps better in normal mode, but rubbish in shield defence.

[Atakuma]

bEVEsthda I'm finding it difficult to take you seriously when you use words like disgusting, and repulsive to describe DA2's aesthetic. It's borderline absurd.

Modifié par Atakuma, 08 août 2011 - 04:17 .

[Blastback]

Wulfram wrote...

The graphical style isn't cartoony. I don't necessarily think it's a great improvement on Origins but it's not cartoony.

For the combat animations, I think it's variable and depends on weapon style. Two handed is an improvement on Origins painfully slow auto attacks, but seem too effortless, and could perhaps be slowed down a smidge if only so that the individual strokes could do more actual damage. Dual wielding is overly flashy, while Origins was pretty good. Mage is an improvement. Archery is a mild improvement for autoattack, and avoids the horribly long activations for talents. Sword and shield is a fairly neutral - perhaps better in normal mode, but rubbish in shield defence.

Agreed

Another problem with the attack animations is that they feel repetative, it's the same pattern of 4 or 5 moves over and over.  This might have been present in Origins, but if so I didn't notice it like I did in DA2.

[TEWR]

Blastback wrote...

Agreed

Another problem with the attack animations is that they feel repetative, it's the same pattern of 4 or 5 moves over and over.  This might have been present in Origins, but if so I didn't notice it like I did in DA2.

It was present in Origins. The characters used the same animations. Occasionally they might switch it up, but usually it was the same pattern. Sometimes they'd use the exact same animation one after the other (Alistair once did the same animation for me 3 times in a row)

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 août 2011 - 04:28 .

[Blastback]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The graphical style isn't cartoony. I don't necessarily think it's a great improvement on Origins but it's not cartoony.

For the combat animations, I think it's variable and depends on weapon style. Two handed is an improvement on Origins painfully slow auto attacks, but seem too effortless, and could perhaps be slowed down a smidge if only so that the individual strokes could do more actual damage. Dual wielding is overly flashy, while Origins was pretty good. Mage is an improvement. Archery is a mild improvement for autoattack, and avoids the horribly long activations for talents. Sword and shield is a fairly neutral - perhaps better in normal mode, but rubbish in shield defence.

Agreed

Another problem with the attack animations is that they feel repetative, it's the same pattern of 4 or 5 moves over and over.  This might have been present in Origins, but if so I didn't notice it like I did in DA2.

It was present in Origins. The characters used the same animations. Occasionally they might switch it up, but usually it was the same pattern. Sometimes they'd use the exact same animation one after the other (Alistair once did the same animation for me 3 times in a row)

I'm not suprised.  the speed of the movements is what made it more noticable I think.

Well for me.

[Persephone]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Strange. Am I the only one who preferred most of the DAII style over the DAO art style? While improvements are needed (Lighting is what makes King Alistair look chubby for example, I saw the model, it looks yummy outside) , but I do not think that DAO darkspawn are any better than DAII darskspawn. They are grinning orcs, my roommate even thinks they look adorable (She wants an ogre for a pet...) 

IMHO the body models are vastly superior, I like the darker look and Kirkwall has some GORGEOUS buildings. (I.E. The Chantry) I love the elven redesigns (Crowd NPCs were meh though), I.E. Merrill. Gorgeous, those eyes! Zev on the other hand could have been done better. (Using a mod) The Qunari are bloody perfect.

As for cartoony:

*Snip*
vs.

*Snip*

Hmmmmmm....

Fable III ...now THAT is cartoony.

And you think this post was in a honest spirit?
Or relevant?

Fable III or these cherry picked images (the DA2 not even from the game) doesn't matter. Neither does the word "cartoony" in itself. The DA2 art direction is disgusting and repulsing for many of us (a lot of us, actually), and it goes much deeper than the mere graphics. It's in the combat animations, it's in the combat skills/effects, it's in the mood of the game. The makeover of Isabela and Flemeth another example
"Cartoony" just as "anime", is just a word that is used to describe the disgustingly repulsive and insulting properties of DA2 art direction. Discussing the word "cartoony" or what, has no bearing on that. If you proove it's not cartoony, it doesn't matter because DA2 is still as disgusting. It remains what it is.

Fot me personally this is so much more about style of design than rendering. On the contrary, I kinda like the way DA2 is rendered/textured. The watercolor effect. Even if that can be called cartoony. I like it, even if I liked the goache effect of DA:O more. That's just personal though. I'm sure many who bring up this want more realism.
What I don't like is Tidus-Fenris, his grandmother (Flemeth), comic-cartoon-stereotype ****tification of Isabela, spikes, feathers, jaggy edges, horns, semiautomatic crossbow with all kinds of other fantastic effects, single swordsweeps that hits every foe in the coartyard, even far away, but no friend, gameplay that only emphasize something meant to be "fun combat action",  dialogue with the single purpose to surprise with cheekky answers and no other function, etc, All that crap is a pure insult to me. It tells me this game is aimed at kids (at best) and that I can go f* myself. A pure insult! Alternatively it suggests something else, but that only makes things worse. This is the "cartoony"/"anime" that I hate.

And hate is not a too strong world. A polished DA2 is as repulsive as before. So everything M.Laidlaw and co discuss, fixing waves, re-used environments etc, will do nothing for DA3 as far as I'm concerned. What is needed is to treat both the game and the gamers differently.

 

1) In an honest spirit? Sorry, not quite getting your meaning there.

2) . "It's in the combat animations, it's in the combat skills/effects, it's
in the mood of the game. The makeover of Isabela and Flemeth another
example." All of which I loved and consider to be improvements. And hey, they are highly subjective.

3) ""Cartoony" just as "anime", is just a word that is used to describe the
disgustingly repulsive and insulting properties of DA2 art direction.
Discussing the word "cartoony" or what, has no bearing on that. If you
proove it's not cartoony, it doesn't matter because DA2 is still as
disgusting. It remains what it is." Hyperbole much? Using terms incorrectly just because it sounds fittingly over the top...geez. Yes, it remains what it is, a fantastic game in my opinion. A game that has flaws that need fixing, however I find it to be just as flawed as its predecessor. Opinions, huh?

4) I'll not even discuss the list of things you hate, it wouldn't lead to any kind of productive discussion because of this: "And hate is not a too strong world. A polished DA2 is as repulsive as before." To you, maybe. To me it would be the best game Bioware has ever made. " All that crap is a pure insult to me. It tells me this game is aimed at
kids (at best) and that I can go f* myself. A pure insult!
Alternatively it suggests something else, but that only makes things
worse. This is the "cartoony"/"anime" that I hate." Well, I'm sorry you did not enjoy DAII. But isn't it time to channel all that negative energy into doing something productive instead of vitriolic ranting? Providing rational, constructive criticism, maybe? Or doing something you enjoy rather than dwelling on DAII?

Modifié par Persephone, 08 août 2011 - 04:29 .

[bEVEsthda]

Atakuma wrote...

bEVEsthda I'm finding it difficult to take you seriously when you use words like disgusting, and repulsive to describe DA2's aesthetic. It's borderline absurd.

It doesn't matter. I've read enough of your posts to know that we have very little common ground.

[AloraKast]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It was the first screenshot I had ready at hand. I could post others, there are some in my gallery as well. DAII is a lot of things but cartoony it is not.

Again, that is your perception/ opinion.  As this is a common criticism of DA2's art style, obviously others disagree.

Common? It's another bandwagon jumper that came up months after the release. Much like the ludicrous "Awzum button" jokes. Tedious, really.

No, the issue of graphics and art style had always been questionned before release even. I remember the discussions in the Morri thread. And there were several threads about it in the DA2 section.

It's not a "bandwagon jumper", whatever that means.

Excellent post KoP (how come you always manage to post with well reasoned and articulate messages? I is totally jealous ).

And while I can completely understand the "Awzun button" issue being totally blown into the stratosphere and thus easily dismissed, at its root the issue has its merits, just like the graphics/art style discussion.

I do wonder how the team handles these obviously subjective issues; do they look at what the prevelant opinion/preference is? I mean, game development is hardly a democracy with active (and loud) forumnites as the valid voting demographic (as much as we would like for it to be). Or do they forge on ahead with the direction they have in mind, but perhaps temper their view somewhat to take into account of those opinions/preferances?

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It was the first screenshot I had ready at hand. I could post others, there are some in my gallery as well. DAII is a lot of things but cartoony it is not.

Again, that is your perception/ opinion.  As this is a common criticism of DA2's art style, obviously others disagree.

Common? It's another bandwagon jumper that came up months after the release. Much like the ludicrous "Awzum button" jokes. Tedious, really.

No, the issue of graphics and art style had always been questionned before release even. I remember the discussions in the Morri thread. And there were several threads about it in the DA2 section.

It's not a "bandwagon jumper", whatever that means.

There is a difference between questioning an art style based on screenies and gameplay footage and the constant usage of words such as cartoony and anime to describe it which has become popular as of late. Despite DAII being neither anime nor cartoony. (I'm not 100% happy with the art style myself but I prefer it over DAO's)

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

The graphical style isn't cartoony. I don't necessarily think it's a great improvement on Origins but it's not cartoony.

For the combat animations, I think it's variable and depends on weapon style. Two handed is an improvement on Origins painfully slow auto attacks, but seem too effortless, and could perhaps be slowed down a smidge if only so that the individual strokes could do more actual damage. Dual wielding is overly flashy, while Origins was pretty good. Mage is an improvement. Archery is a mild improvement for autoattack, and avoids the horribly long activations for talents. Sword and shield is a fairly neutral - perhaps better in normal mode, but rubbish in shield defence.

I feel this deserves to be separated, as I want to give my 2 coppers.


For me, I think the Mage, Archery, and Greatsword animations are perfect.

I think Dual Wielding is too stiff and lifeless when they're up close to an enemy. They're putting no impact into their movement.

S&S is a mixed thing for me.

[Blastback]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It was the first screenshot I had ready at hand. I could post others, there are some in my gallery as well. DAII is a lot of things but cartoony it is not.

Again, that is your perception/ opinion.  As this is a common criticism of DA2's art style, obviously others disagree.

Common? It's another bandwagon jumper that came up months after the release. Much like the ludicrous "Awzum button" jokes. Tedious, really.

No, the issue of graphics and art style had always been questionned before release even. I remember the discussions in the Morri thread. And there were several threads about it in the DA2 section.

It's not a "bandwagon jumper", whatever that means.

There is a difference between questioning an art style based on screenies and gameplay footage and the constant usage of words such as cartoony and anime to describe it which has become popular as of late. Despite DAII being neither anime nor cartoony. (I'm not 100% happy with the art style myself but I prefer it over DAO's)

Some of us were using those terms from the get go.  *Raises hand*  Though it has become more prevelant.

[Persephone]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The graphical style isn't cartoony. I don't necessarily think it's a great improvement on Origins but it's not cartoony.

For the combat animations, I think it's variable and depends on weapon style. Two handed is an improvement on Origins painfully slow auto attacks, but seem too effortless, and could perhaps be slowed down a smidge if only so that the individual strokes could do more actual damage. Dual wielding is overly flashy, while Origins was pretty good. Mage is an improvement. Archery is a mild improvement for autoattack, and avoids the horribly long activations for talents. Sword and shield is a fairly neutral - perhaps better in normal mode, but rubbish in shield defence.

I feel this deserves to be separated, as I want to give my 2 coppers.


For me, I think the Mage, Archery, and Greatsword animations are perfect.

I think Dual Wielding is too stiff and lifeless when they're up close to an enemy. They're putting no impact into their movement.

S&S is a mixed thing for me.

Agreed. I love the Mage combat especially. I was most disappointed when playing as a dual wielding rogue. The animations felt....choppy (Backstab) and over the top. Granted, Izzy being a duelist might hop around like that but IMHO such moves should be kept for finishers.

[Atakuma]

You know, I'd actually like it if they went cell shaded similar to the way Prince of Persia did.

[Persephone]

Blastback wrote...

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It was the first screenshot I had ready at hand. I could post others, there are some in my gallery as well. DAII is a lot of things but cartoony it is not.

Again, that is your perception/ opinion.  As this is a common criticism of DA2's art style, obviously others disagree.

Common? It's another bandwagon jumper that came up months after the release. Much like the ludicrous "Awzum button" jokes. Tedious, really.

No, the issue of graphics and art style had always been questionned before release even. I remember the discussions in the Morri thread. And there were several threads about it in the DA2 section.

It's not a "bandwagon jumper", whatever that means.

There is a difference between questioning an art style based on screenies and gameplay footage and the constant usage of words such as cartoony and anime to describe it which has become popular as of late. Despite DAII being neither anime nor cartoony. (I'm not 100% happy with the art style myself but I prefer it over DAO's)

Some of us were using those terms from the get go.  *Raises hand*  Though it has become more prevelant.

It's still neither of the two. Over the top (Rogues)? Sure. But cartoony? No. Anime? Because Fenris has big eyes, broods and what not? No. Because of the big swords? No. Modders compared them, same size as in Origins.

[Saintthanksgiving]

Persephone wrote...

There is a difference between questioning an art style based on screenies and gameplay footage and the constant usage of words such as cartoony and anime to describe it which has become popular as of late. Despite DAII being neither anime nor cartoony. (I'm not 100% happy with the art style myself but I prefer it over DAO's)

as much as it pains me to agree with Persephone, I think you guys are going a little overboard with the criticism here. 

The elves look ridiculous, that much i agree with... especially when Fenris doesnt even look like any other elf.

but saying the entire game looks like an anime movie is pushing it farther than it needs to go.

Are the huge swords a little much? sure.

Does Hawke look like a Medieval hipster? of course.

I think we can be more specific with our criticism and it would be more effective. 

besides, the arts style is #547 on my list of problems with DA2.  If the gameplay, story, and conversation issues were solved, I doubt very much if people would condemn DA3 for "looking" like DA2

.... except elves.  Those gremlins gotta go.

Modifié par Saintthanksgiving, 08 août 2011 - 04:38 .

[AloraKast]

It's all subjective Persephone. The point is that, while perhaps some folks will indeed jump on the bandwagon because... well, I don't know why exactly, to some of us the game really DOES come across like "cartoony".

To me, it's mostly how the game feels, but I can also feel some of the "cartoony" aspects in the graphics/design and I can also feel and experience the "anime" influences. Those are simply words in trying to describe how the game feels or comes across to us... especially compared to the DA:O experience.

In my experience DA:O was a much more darker and serious game experience than my experience with DA2, which was more on the light and humorous side. A number of aspects came together to create this feel.

And of course, everything is my perception.

PS. Arguing perceptions is pointless, because HOW are you going to argue with someone that how they experience/perceive a game, how a game comes across for THEM is wrong/incorrect?

Modifié par AloraKast, 08 août 2011 - 04:39 .

[Blastback]

Persephone wrote...


It's still neither of the two. Over the top (Rogues)? Sure. But cartoony? No. Anime? Because Fenris has big eyes, broods and what not? No. Because of the big swords? No. Modders compared them, same size as in Origins.

I get where your coming from, and to be fair, I use the word cartoony in part because I can't find another that accurately describes it besides stylised. 

Ultimatly the faces in Origins felt more photorealistic than in DA2, where they look more rounded and animated.  just not a shift I like.