1502 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It was the first screenshot I had ready at hand. I could post others, there are some in my gallery as well. DAII is a lot of things but cartoony it is not.

Again, that is your perception/ opinion.  As this is a common criticism of DA2's art style, obviously others disagree.

Common? It's another bandwagon jumper that came up months after the release. Much like the ludicrous "Awzum button" jokes. Tedious, really.

No, the issue of graphics and art style had always been questionned before release even. I remember the discussions in the Morri thread. And there were several threads about it in the DA2 section.

It's not a "bandwagon jumper", whatever that means.

There is a difference between questioning an art style based on screenies and gameplay footage and the constant usage of words such as cartoony and anime to describe it which has become popular as of late. Despite DAII being neither anime nor cartoony. (I'm not 100% happy with the art style myself but I prefer it over DAO's)

as much as it pains me to agree with Persephone, I think you guys are going a little overboard with the criticism here. 

Does Hawke look like a Medieval hipster? of course.

I think we can be more specific with our criticism and it would be more effective. 

Agreeing with me is painful these days?  I thought I had covered my tracks well. *Mumbles something about cleaning her dungeon & getting rid of evidence*

Hawke looks like a Medieval Hipster?  Which Hawke? There are like....tens of thousands.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

There is a difference between questioning an art style based on screenies and gameplay footage and the constant usage of words such as cartoony and anime to describe it which has become popular as of late. Despite DAII being neither anime nor cartoony. (I'm not 100% happy with the art style myself but I prefer it over DAO's)

Cartoony was also one of the terms used to describe it. Perhaps innacurately, but it's a label to voice criticism. I personally lack technical terms to describe it, so I could be using the word (though I never did). I did dislike it, thought it was too "boxy" and over the top. In fact I think it's ulgy or plain dull most of the time. (EDIT: and if they mean general feel, I have said and will say that the end of Act 3 felt like a very bad cartoon to me).

Which is what I believe they mean by "cartoony". As in not realistic looking, over the top, too artificial, weird looking...etc etc.

The point is, look beyond labels, there is legitimate criticism behind it. Far from being a bandwagon people jump in to annoy you.

I didn't think Origins was that great either, but somehow, faces look more..I don't know natural to me.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 août 2011 - 04:42 .

[Blastback]

Persephone wrote...



Agreeing with me is painful these days?  I thought I had covered my tracks well. *Mumbles something about cleaning her dungeon & getting rid of evidence*

I'm totally availble for hire.  Need money and moral scruples are not an issue.

And I can deal with disgusitng.  Worked cleaning a dog kennel. 

Modifié par Blastback, 08 août 2011 - 04:40 .

[TEWR]

Persephone wrote...

Agreed. I love the Mage combat especially. I was most disappointed when playing as a dual wielding rogue. The animations felt....choppy (Backstab) and over the top. Granted, Izzy being a duelist might hop around like that but IMHO such moves should be kept for finishers

Yea the basic animations felt lifeless. I actually have no problem with the jumps because a person can jump 10-15 feet across a distance if they aren't weighed down by much and have built up momentum. I do take issue with Isabela jumping from one enemy to the next with no momentum and jumping 6 feet high in the air, but I don't know if Bioware could do a "jump only when running" type of thing.

As for Backstab, it wouldn't have been so bad if the smoke bomb covered a good portion of the field (about the entire range that backstab allows) and if the rogue just ran towards the enemy you targeted. Or just activated Stealth in the smoke bomb, disappeared, and then reappeared. The latter one would still be bad to some people, but it gives off enough realism to enjoy it.

I could actually go into a long rant about each and every ability for every single class, but I won't. Suffice to say, the abilities/spells need to have a touch of realism.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 août 2011 - 04:42 .

[Persephone]

AloraKast wrote...

It's all subjective Persephone. The point is that, while perhaps some folks will indeed jump on the bandwagon because... well, I don't know why exactly, to some of us the game really DOES come across like "cartoony".

To me, it's mostly how the game feels, but I can also feel some of the "cartoony" aspects in the graphics/design and I can also feel and experience the "anime" influences. Those are simply words in trying to describe how the game feels or comes across to us... especially compared to the DA:O experience.

In my experience DA:O was a much more darker and serious game experience than my experience with DA2, which was more on the light and humorous side. A number of aspects came together to create this feel.

And of course, everything is my perception.

Oh, I understand where you are coming from. Even though in my case it was the other way around. DAO's story, much as I still love it, seems cliché child's play now after finishing DAII several times & meeting its companions. I.E. The Goldanna vs. Varania scenario. Both were sisters of a companion of mine....Meeting Goldanna was "Oh, ok. *Hugs Alistair*" while meeting Fenris' sister and learning about his past (And hers) was amazingly poignant. To me, anyway. I found little in DAII I'd describe as light or humorous except a certain quest involving Aveline. In fact, I thought DAII could use some more cheerful content amidst the tragedy, darkness and conflict it presented me with.

[bEVEsthda]

Persephone wrote...

Well, I'm sorry you did not enjoy DAII. But isn't it time to channel all that negative energy into doing something productive instead of vitriolic ranting? Providing rational, constructive criticism, maybe? Or doing something you enjoy rather than dwelling on DAII?

Well, I think the most constructive thing I can do is to attack the art direction of DA2, since that is really the main thing about DA2 that destroys my game experience. And it's also the main thing about DA2's "new direction" which I don't appreciate at all.

It is rational, it is constructive, it is channeled.
And I have never bothered to respons much to your posts, if ever, as you well know. Precisely because it's about different opinions and taste, for the most time. (In that manner i differ a lot from you, who always seem to have time to quickly interject your contrary opinion). And I don't spend much time here any longer, so you have largely got rid of me.

I am however obliged to express my opinion!

[Blastback]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Agreed. I love the Mage combat especially. I was most disappointed when playing as a dual wielding rogue. The animations felt....choppy (Backstab) and over the top. Granted, Izzy being a duelist might hop around like that but IMHO such moves should be kept for finishers

As for Backstab, it wouldn't have been so bad if the smoke bomb covered a good portion of the field (about the entire range that backstab allows) and if the rogue just ran towards the enemy you targeted.

Would be better, yes.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Which is what I believe they mean by "cartoony". As in not realistic looking, over the top, too artificial, weird looking...etc etc.

The point is, look beyond labels, there is legitimate criticism behind it. Far from being a bandwagon people jump in to annoy you.

I didn't think Origins was that great either, but somehow, faces look more..I don't know natural to me.

It's both. And it's not about annoying me either.

Depends on which face in Origins. Seeing King Alistair's face in outside lighting was an eye opener.

[Persephone]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Well, I'm sorry you did not enjoy DAII. But isn't it time to channel all that negative energy into doing something productive instead of vitriolic ranting? Providing rational, constructive criticism, maybe? Or doing something you enjoy rather than dwelling on DAII?

Well, I think the most constructive thing I can do is to attack the art direction of DA2, since that is really the main thing about DA2 that destroys my game experience. And it's also the main thing about DA2's "new direction" which I don't appreciate at all.

It is rational, it is constructive, it is channeled.
And I have never bothered to respons much to your posts, if ever, as you well know. Precisely because it's about different opinions and taste, for the most time. (In that manner i differ a lot from you, who always seem to have time to quickly interject your contrary opinion). And I don't spend much time here any longer, so you have largely got rid of me.

I am however obliged to express my opinion!

No need to attack anything, one can state criticism without going into aggressive mode.

Sure you are obliged to express your opinion and I do hope it will be heard and noted.

I'll say this: With so many different views and opinions being presented here, I do not envy the devs one bit.

[TEWR]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Which is what I believe they mean by "cartoony". As in not realistic looking, over the top, too artificial, weird looking...etc etc.

The point is, look beyond labels, there is legitimate criticism behind it. Far from being a bandwagon people jump in to annoy you.

I didn't think Origins was that great either, but somehow, faces look more..I don't know natural to me.

It's both. And it's not about annoying me either.

Depends on which face in Origins. Seeing King Alistair's face in outside lighting was an eye opener.

If there's one person in Origins that didn't look natural at all to me, it was Elder Miriam.





I think it was the eyes.


And I hope Alistair is made to look better if he reappears again. While Warden Alistair definitely looks better than King Alistair, there's still something wrong with his look.

[dragonfire100]

Guys why do you say DA2 sucks like a fact thats just your opinion we all have opinions but dont treat them as a fact like me i think DA2 pwns DAO but is it a opinion but in fact both great its just are opinions one is better then the other.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
Depends on which face in Origins. Seeing King Alistair's face in outside lighting was an eye opener.

I saw it, and while it isn't the abomination it seemed like, I stil felt it suffered from the same problem. Pardon the slight exagerration, but it still looks like a potatoe head like everyone else's face to me. Don't know how to describe it in detail and others have done a much better job that I did. They just remind me of potatoes. Especially Aveline's jaw. 

Another thing I disliked was the shoving of beige down our throats.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Depends on which face in Origins. Seeing King Alistair's face in outside lighting was an eye opener.

I saw it, and while it isn't the abomination it seemed like, I stil felt it suffered from the same problem. Pardon the slight exagerration, but it still looks like a potatoe head like everyone else's face to me. Don't know how to describe it in detail and others have done a much better job that I did. They just remind me of potatoes. Especially Aveline's jaw. 

Another thing I disliked was the shoving of beige down our throats.

Can't see the potatoe effect at all. I liked Aveline's look, very refreshing. (Would never use a face mod on her)

Didn't mind the beige any more than DAO's brown.

[TEWR]

one thing I disliked was how a soldier in Ostagar said the Darkspawn turn the land black and sick, yet the Blightlands were brown.

[Addai]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

Persephone wrote...

There is a difference between questioning an art style based on screenies and gameplay footage and the constant usage of words such as cartoony and anime to describe it which has become popular as of late. Despite DAII being neither anime nor cartoony. (I'm not 100% happy with the art style myself but I prefer it over DAO's)

as much as it pains me to agree with Persephone, I think you guys are going a little overboard with the criticism here. 

The elves look ridiculous, that much i agree with... especially when Fenris doesnt even look like any other elf.

but saying the entire game looks like an anime movie is pushing it farther than it needs to go.

Are the huge swords a little much? sure.

Does Hawke look like a Medieval hipster? of course.

I think we can be more specific with our criticism and it would be more effective. 

besides, the arts style is #547 on my list of problems with DA2.  If the gameplay, story, and conversation issues were solved, I doubt very much if people would condemn DA3 for "looking" like DA2

.... except elves.  Those gremlins gotta go.

I imagine people use the term because they're making an association.  Not many of us are artists, who can put our fingers on and describe a response in technical terms.  For me, "cartoony" is an expression that covers art style, combat animations, and the exaggerated, melodramatic elements of the story.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
Didn't mind the beige any more than DAO's brown.

Haven, Denerim, the Circle, the Brecillian forest...etc were not brown, though it wasn't that colorful either.
Other than sundermount and a few bushes in Wounded coast, all of DA2 felt like a variety of beige to me.

What annoys me about both is the corridor design of maps however.

[hoorayforicecream]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Well, I think the most constructive thing I can do is to attack the art direction of DA2, since that is really the main thing about DA2 that destroys my game experience. And it's also the main thing about DA2's "new direction" which I don't appreciate at all.

It is rational, it is constructive, it is channeled.
And I have never bothered to respons much to your posts, if ever, as you well know. Precisely because it's about different opinions and taste, for the most time. (In that manner i differ a lot from you, who always seem to have time to quickly interject your contrary opinion). And I don't spend much time here any longer, so you have largely got rid of me.

I am however obliged to express my opinion!

Rather than simply say how bad DA2's art direction is, why not provide specific examples of art direction you did like? Not something simple like "I liked this game's art direction", but more like "I think the combat animations from the 2H sword style of game X were good, because of this, that and those." That's constructive. Surely you can think of examples like that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
I imagine people use the term because they're making an association.  Not many of us are artists, who can put our fingers on and describe a response in technical terms.  For me, "cartoony" is an expression that covers art style, combat animations, and the exaggerated, melodramatic elements of the story.

This especially for me. Except I would stress that it's "bad cartoony", because I have seen cartoons with more subtelty and depth to them (imo).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 août 2011 - 05:02 .

[FieryDove]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

=ME3

Clearly they can extend time to get titles right. DAO sold (about) as much as ME2 so there no excuse as to why they couldn't of extended DA2 development if can do it at will with ME3.

I will wade into the deep end. Deep pockets aka M$ might have been behind the delay. (Kinect) Yes? No?

Ok back to the usual bashing of the game. Carry on.

Oh Gorilla companion for DA3 plug.

Wait! Mike its been a year are you still investigating Toolset update. TY
http://ve3d.ign.com/...ing-Their-Heads

[Wulfram]

Addai67 wrote...

I imagine people use the term because they're making an association.  Not many of us are artists, who can put our fingers on and describe a response in technical terms.  For me, "cartoony" is an expression that covers art style, combat animations, and the exaggerated, melodramatic elements of the story.

Exaggerated and melodramatic is a reasonable description.  Cartoony is nonsense with regard to the art style and animations.

Modifié par Wulfram, 08 août 2011 - 05:05 .

[Aaleel]

I think my problem was more the level design, the lack of detail. There were just too many large open rooms, that were just empty. Then they used that limestone, sandstone pattern just way too much. It was even in the first indoor area in Legacy, I thought it was haunting me lol.

But I wish they had just added some furniture, shelves, chairs to make these big empty rooms look like they were what the game was telling you they were.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I imagine people use the term because they're making an association.  Not many of us are artists, who can put our fingers on and describe a response in technical terms.  For me, "cartoony" is an expression that covers art style, combat animations, and the exaggerated, melodramatic elements of the story.

This especially for me. Except I would stress that it's "bad cartoony", because I have seen cartoons with more subtelty and depth to them (imo).

No need to stress that, KOP. No one who knows you would expect a positive word on DAII coming from you. (I luff ya anyway)

I've seen cartoons with more subtlety and depth than DAO, DAII and TW2 myself. Esp. those that have like a hundred episodes with 20-40 minutes per episode. But so what? 

[Persephone]

Aaleel wrote...

I think my problem was more the level design, the lack of detail. There were just too many large open rooms, that were just empty. Then they used that limestone, sandstone pattern just way too much. It was even in the first indoor area in Legacy, I thought it was haunting me lol.

But I wish they had just added some furniture, shelves, chairs to make these big empty rooms look like they were what the game was telling you they were.

This. Adding rubble, clutter, furniture, animals and colors would go a long way. Look at the Sebastian specific dungeon. It wasn't entirely new. But the layout was redone, there were different colors, different clutter....took months to discover its "reused enviroment" roots.

Modifié par Persephone, 08 août 2011 - 05:09 .

[Addai]

Wulfram wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I imagine people use the term because they're making an association.  Not many of us are artists, who can put our fingers on and describe a response in technical terms.  For me, "cartoony" is an expression that covers art style, combat animations, and the exaggerated, melodramatic elements of the story.

Exaggerated and melodramatic is a reasonable description.  Cartoony is nonsense with regard to the art style and animations.

Whatever.  You must be operating under a different set of associations with that word than I do.  It fits perfectly well IMO, but there's no point in arguing over what is basically semantics.

Not that Origins didn't have some whimsy and comic exaggeration at points.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
No need to stress that, KOP. No one who knows you would expect a positive word on DAII coming from you. (I luff ya anyway)

Except those who do know me, know that I have said positive things about DA2.

See? Not only "haters" exagerrate.