1502 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamie_edmo]

@Dragoonlordz: Great post, thats basically my opinion, I feel as though the people who bought Origins because its was a classic fantasy RPG are being left behind, and that another audience is being catered to instead.

It seems to be after the success of ME2 they tried to hit gold twice by applying ME gameplay devices such as the dialogue wheel, lack of companion customisation and a general emphasis on action to DA, whereas I think these things cause DA to loose its identity, although the dialogue wheel works well, i think DA should have something different to give it character and feel same with menus and interfaces etc.

Personally I always thought that ME was the action RPG and DA the classic RPG for Bioware, that way they cater to all sets of fans whereas now they're catering to the action crowd only instead of both.

Modifié par Jamie_edmo, 10 août 2011 - 06:25 .

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

/rant following be aware to skip if not bored enough to read someones ranting and don't expect much amazing insight or any epiphanys lol

From my standpoint I bought Kotor and it was a great game which inspired me to fork out for Kotor 2 and again (bugs aside) was still great game this left me wanting more in the series which has yet to be done, single player not MMO. I also thought well if Bioware can make this game good I'll try some more and followed it up with BG again loved, got me interested and bought the follow up which still loved and keenly awaited next title in series again which so far hasn't been been developed.

My friend then sent me a copy of ME1, I thought was amazing game and replayed many times like the rest, it peaked my interest in any follow up title and I bought ME2 for me and my friend and while not as good imho as the first one I still enjoyed enough to await number 3 to come out but due to some aspects within it such as tedious planet scanning which more importantly that it replaced exploration, more shooter / less RPG of number 2 plus removal of exploration replaced with ****ty planet scanning made me keep eye on future developments to see if they "streamline" it to death or not. It didn't put my off buying the next one though but had to keep my fingers crossed which still are.

My friend then bought me DAO and I thought was best game yet which immediatly made me hope the next one would be as amazing, so my friend bought me copy and I bought her one (odd way around I know but she wanted SE and I didn't; I had job she didnt so I paid the most for her and she gave me normal copy to make up for it). After playing that I have lost almost all interest in future titles in that series unlike every other franchise Bioware has ever made this one has actually put me off spending my money on the next title. Thats the effect of DA2 so while people can claimed "ooh was best thing since sliced bread, love new direction hope next one stays that way" the knock on effect for most is for first time since buying any Bioware title it has made me lose interest in one of their franchises.

While I see Bioware fall from grace with DA2 I see others rise up Skyrim, DuesEx, Diablo (still keeping by far enough to still be Diablo with the exception of logging in to play which I don't mind) also TW2. All these peaked my interest while Biowares DA series has crumbled imho into a streamlined, flashy over the top instant gratification series. Hope they change direction which I'm sure won't happen but DA2 lost my interest in future DA products, thats the real life cuase/effect of the choices/consequence of games direction changing. When they produce a game which imho is of worse quality and enjoyment than a mediocre or average game like Nier or FF13 (personal opinion, if don't like deal with it and move on) then it's time to look elsewhere. Was first time playing their titles that I stopped playing half way through for ages and just played decade old not great titles that I have completed a million times already because they were more fun to me than DA2.

So I left my feedback and hope things change but I don't think they will not enough to peak my interest since they have already stated keeping heading in same direction as DA2 with the whole "broaden the audience" "appeal to everyone" "attract non RPG players via simplification" etc.

I wanted a truly deep, vast amount of loot and customisation, many locations all looking unique that enabled exploration, a world that seemed alive not lifeless like was, no childish spam attack combat against spam waves plus choices that matter and not truly tacky bottlenecking so obvious that a 3 y/o could tell the difference between making a choice and then being kicked in the nuts after saying no I don't want to carry your amulet/pendant when you are given the option of saying no then sister and his/her mommy saying will do it or no I don't want to enter Kirkwall which gave you the option of saying go somewhere else then again his mommy and sister say they going in, no I don't want to side with one group or the other when there was option to not pick sides and the sentence got repeated followed by your choice removed from dialog and no I wouldn't sit around for decade not interested in mothers relationship enough to ask a single question about mystery person and no I don't want to let sister patrice walk out building when I picked kill/stop her and she still did it.. Amongst a million other things which slap you in the face.

It going to take a drastic change in many areas of gameplay to peak my interest again which let's be honest won't happen due to they want this new audience at it seems to me regardless of cost of the previous one. The one thing I will give Bioware credit they do seem to be listening but I don't see how they will pull off this fix successfully in the end now that they have two types of game one who liked deeper with less hand held titles such as DAO and the new direction of simple enough for little kiddies with no experience of games especially any RPGs who will need their hand held telling them what save game means or what an inventory is.

I do wish them luck with trying to resolve that but the last thing I am going to be doing is holding my breath. They have created a chasm between two titles within the same franchise with different directions and idiologies and I don't see them finding a perfect solution instead just a mix match which will due to being mash up of two different types of game approaches will be a diluted mess of random directions. This in itself will make the final product stopped from ever being a masterpeice or amazing. I think next title will be average as they try to appeal to audiences of DAO plus DA2 and still a third one, the 'need hands held' generation of new players. So expect more simplification, more streamlining and less features imho.

^ The result of lack of quality in a rushed DA2 and change in direction and idiologies from DAO to DA2 (Can quote Brent's words on direction he wanted to go, which differes from Mikes if think the idiology is same which in reality wasn't and isn't).

/end rant *grumble grumble*

Saying that I still have a lot of respect for Bioware and staff especially ability to listen to people even if don't make changes based on what people ask for, and nothing against Mike he just has different opinion than me thats all which is quite fair and no reason why shouldn't have different opinions. I just don't like the direction and it lost my interest purely as a result of product they released following up from one loved (wasn't just because wanted DAO2 which people might claim, I also played it pretending wasn't a follow up to DAO and still had so many flaws and things did not like as a standalone game that still didn't like it). DAO wasn't perfect but when put it all together created a masterpeice imho, DA2 was full of bad aspects and when put together it was only at most average to me personally. They are trying to put things right with Legacy and from what I understand was a step in right direction and proved listened to people but due to admitting they sticking with streamlining (some people don't like the word but it merely means simplification or removal of things people claim is useless regardless of in fact if is used and liked) I don't think the end result will be the right balance. Time will tell.

One of the best posts I have read in months, thank you for taking the time to write it and share it.     I am quoting it because it deserves to be on every page for other people to read.

Modifié par Kothoses Rothenkisal, 10 août 2011 - 11:10 .

[TEWR]

nerdage wrote...

Jamie_edmo wrote...

I know what the devs meant when they made certain weapons class specific so that classes were more distinctive, but imo their shouldn't be any weapon restrictions (mages and staves excluded) it just makes the game more fun, warriors should at least be able to dual wield.

Edit: Plus remember in origins when you could charge into battle unarmed, with your fists those where the days lol:)

I have more fond memories of being able to give a melee character a bow when I didn't another melee. I don't need to be able to specialize everyone in it, but just the ability to give them a bow when melee dps aren't practical (high dragons, pride demons, ancient wraith) would've been nice.

Not that the slow-mo punches in DAO weren't fun, but if I had to choose, I'd choose bows.

I miss being able to make dual dagger warriors, bow wielding warriors, S&S Rogues, dual sword warriors, etc.

I also miss being able to have my characters use their fists. How the hell does Anders get a new staff when I took his off?

And I want to customize my companions' armor again, but I also want them to gain unique armor during their companion quests, with the last quest giving the player their best armor, which would serve as their unique appearance in the future.

I do wonder though what new animations they'd use for brawlers. Maybe have them become boxers? I guess then people could get their Shepard punch on

[Wozearly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I miss being able to make dual dagger warriors, bow wielding warriors, S&S Rogues, dual sword warriors, etc.

And I want to customize my companions' armor again, but I also want them to gain unique armor during their companion quests, with the last quest giving the player their best armor, which would serve as their unique appearance in the future.

S&S Rogue? Being allergic to all of the rogue combat abilities must have been slightly entertaining! I agree with you on the general point anyway - loved the archer warrior and dual weapon warrior builds.

I'm also with you on customisation, although I don't think their best armour should automatically come from the companion quest as that may be a wee bit trite and predictable. I don't actually believe that there should be a 'best' armour at all. I'd rather there were trade-offs throughout.

[Tirfan]

Hey, S&S rogue was a great idea, I once made Leliana an S&S rogue to honor that one early concept art picture.

And count me in for archery-warriors, DW-warriors and all the other fun things.

Yeah, I miss variety, I also miss how all the classes didn't play in the "run in and use cooldowns"-way.

[In Exile]

Tirfan wrote...
Yeah, I miss variety, I also miss how all the classes didn't play in the "run in and use cooldowns"-way.

You thought auto-attacking was fun?

[Tirfan]

Well, more fun than every class playing the same.

[In Exile]

Tirfan wrote...

Well, more fun than every class playing the same.

? classes don't play the same at all in DA2. 

[Dubya75]

Tirfan wrote...

Well, more fun than every class playing the same.

classes are much more varied in DA2 than it was in Origins, especially Rogue and Warrior.
Have you played different classes in DA2? If you did, then surely you would not make a statement such as this...

[b1322]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

b1322 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I wonder if would be good to just create a thread with list version little to no need for explantion of things say top 3 or top 5 people want Bioware to work on for next title would be of any use. We have many feedback threads with long answers going into vast detail, I know I have done the same in my signature review. Maybe a short version would make life easier for them. Simplification I get the irony.


Example ~ Top 3 things I would like them to work on most for next title:

Large amount of areas for exploration within as close as possible a 'living world'

Large amounts of loot / customisation not just runes and trinkets or main character only, including race choices at start.

Choice/consequence, cause/effect that matters, with a huge improvement needed in branching.


Those are my top 3, I wonder what others (top 3 alone) would pick. Obviously for more detail and deeper insight I did write long winded review which they know about and made sure they did as John is very much aware I am sure given how much I nagged him about it.

Actually thats a great idea, if such a thread is created I will be there

Ok done.

http://social.biowar...5/index/8080144

Good job with that thread Dragoonlordz, now Bioware dont have to read through a bunch of nonsense to see what the majority of the fans actually wants and good job on keeping those stubborn xxxxx´s down as well

Modifié par b1322, 11 août 2011 - 01:50 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Nah it will turn into nonsense and bickering and belittling making fun of other peoples opinions as always does on BSN, thats the maturity of too many people on here even with a set out structure, principle and purpose people can't seem to stop themselves on here ruining it. I had to bring it back from wrong direction a few times but within hour or two people off arguing with each other again.

Its the sole reason I avoid the CC thread in which John already said wasn't discussion thread, was hoping mine would not become one either because when they do they get derailed a lot of the time and sometimes locked due to bickering. So I gave up. If turns to crap so be it I tried best with explaning purpose and reasoning behind it as well as setting a structure with reasons why for that too, people ignored it and just went off on their own tangents like always.

If read how started out and it's purpose of ease or use and thoughtfulness in limiting choices to top three (a snapshot of whats most important to people); seemed on track and was looking good then snide comments got made so I tried to bring back on track, then people forced others to defend their choices which was opposite of what asked for and now (although some people kind enough and mature enough to stick to structure and principle of it) it's just people picking more than three or nit picking on other peoples choices and also new development being people aren't any longer keeping it simple one sentence they are writing paragraphs explaining each choice which again defeats the point.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 août 2011 - 04:12 .

[SirKillsalot]

I'm 99% sure this has come up allready, but I could not find it, so I will be as succinct as possible;

Mod support.

If someone can copy/pase previous discussions for me I would apreciate it.

[b1322]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Nah it will turn into nonsense and bickering and belittling making fun of other peoples opinions as always does on BSN, thats the maturity of too many people on here even with a set out structure, principle and purpose people can't seem to stop themselves on here ruining it. I had to bring it back from wrong direction a few times but within hour or two people off arguing with each other again.

Its the sole reason I avoid the CC thread in which John already said wasn't discussion thread, was hoping mine would not become one either because when they do they get derailed a lot of the time and sometimes locked due to bickering. So I gave up. If turns to crap so be it I tried best with explaning purpose and reasoning behind it as well as setting a structure with reasons why for that too, people ignored it and just went off on their own tangents like always.

If read how started out and it's purpose of ease or use and thoughtfulness in limiting choices to top three (a snapshot of whats most important to people); seemed on track and was looking good then snide comments got made so I tried to bring back on track, then people forced others to defend their choices which was opposite of what asked for and now (although some people kind enough and mature enough to stick to structure and principle of it) it's just people picking more than three or nit picking on other peoples choices and also new development being people aren't any longer keeping it simple one sentence they are writing paragraphs explaining each choice which again defeats the point.

I know but I still think you managed to set people straight in a polite and mature yet in a strict way. Its annoying as hell when people cant follow the rules, I watched the thread as it evolved and I wanted to scream at those people a couple of times, but I didnt want to make the discussions worse by saying what I thought of them, I am beginning to understand Bioware a bit more now, its not easy to deal with the stubborn ones.

I can see that a lot of people has followed the rules and gave some good input though, I just hope that the thread wont turn bad, its a good thread and it would be a shame to see it become bad.

Modifié par b1322, 11 août 2011 - 07:32 .

[macrocarl]

Since you all are talking about when dialog comes up and when it should and things you've decided moving forward I just wanted to say that having vistas to overlook and comment on what's going on with whichever companion you bring with you is a huge huge step forward. The problem I had with DAA's dialog is that I kept feeling like I may have brought the wrong person along because I didn't get a conversation to trigger. I'm sure having everyone VO for every companion in Legacy must have been an enormous endeavor for you guys, but I thought it was a great improvement. Instead of worrying if I brought the wrong character along for the DLC, I kept thinking of all the cool possibilities for future replay with my different Hawkes so I could hear everything that each companion said. Will you have more of the vista eyeball icon convos happen moving forward?

[Xaenn]

macrocarl your avatar scares me, I can't tell if its a harden warrior or a crazy mage, but if that doesn't strike fear into the archdemon himself, I don't know what would. xD

Edit: I mean that in an positive way.

Modifié par Xaenn, 11 août 2011 - 10:29 .

[devSin]

I think she's the sexy lady. Chicks with jaundiced eyes are HOT.

[FieryDove]

b1322 wrote...

I know but I still think you managed to set people straight in a polite and mature yet in a strict way. Its annoying as hell when people cant follow the rules, I watched the thread as it evolved and I wanted to scream at those people a couple of times,

I did yell. It takes a lot to get me riled, but I had enough. Not that it matters, people will be like that no matter what.

It is a good thread. I didn't list my top 3 tho. I have basically thrown my top 3 out the window since Bioware said they are here to stay. Sigh

(Chants the wheel is Ebil!)

devSin wrote...
I think she's the sexy lady. Chicks with jaundiced eyes are HOT.

I think only Beerfish has made an Avatar that can rival that one. It was really something to behold.

SirKillsalot wrote...

I'm 99% sure this has come up allready, but I could not find it, so I will be as succinct as possible;
Mod support.
If someone can copy/pase previous discussions for me I would apreciate it.

There are a few toolset threads floating around. Last one I recall Stanley said there is nothing to announce. Sorry I don't have a link.

Mike was investigating the possibility of updating the toolset. That was August (last year) so it seems less than likely all this time there would be one.
http://ve3d.ign.com/...ing-Their-Heads

Modifié par FieryDove, 14 août 2011 - 09:04 .

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

A toolset release for Dragon Age 2 could be just what it needs to be honest. If they focus on making that as accessible as they did the actual game. With such a talented modding community as the people here I have no doubt we would see mods that remove the need for the constant reuse of the same cave over and over again.

[MarauderESP]

well my 2 cents....
i dont know if someone alredy said this but, but they have to take a look to the UI, becouse DA2 UI was sooooo plain, i mean it seems like to simple like if someone took the base one and said that is enough, so next....
its seem they use the same pattern with the item description.....wel thers no item description, and the star system, ok its easy for newcomers that way, fine i get it, but why dont u combine, some stats whit it, just to say something....
and hey stop those characters saying : "hey hawk, long time no see", and i thinking, who the hell r u?...
i hame more issues but that is enough for now...
sorry if something is bad writen or have mistakes on it, im not an english speaker ^^

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

For those interested part 1 of a two part Community done right video is up, the first part features CD PR and Valve, the second part will be Bioware and Arena net so any comments about the positive aspects of Biowares community (especially from people who were around on the old boards) would be appreciated.

Modifié par Kothoses Rothenkisal, 12 août 2011 - 12:40 .

[SirKillsalot]

Dev's, how about some discussion on mod support/toolset then?

Why was it cut this time around?

Why have you not implemented it since release?

[macrocarl]

Xaenn wrote...

macrocarl your avatar scares me, I can't tell if its a harden warrior or a crazy mage, but if that doesn't strike fear into the archdemon himself, I don't know what would. xD

Edit: I mean that in an positive way.

She's a mage that I played for a bit to make me laugh. Her eyeballs are only part of her alluring face. I like to imagine she's sitting on a toilet for the avatar picture...........

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

SirKillsalot wrote...

Dev's, how about some discussion on mod support/toolset then?

Why was it cut this time around?

Why have you not implemented it since release?

As much as I would love to think we will get an answer I doubt we will, its a real shame because the release of a toolset thats a bit simpler to use than the DA:O one would be the shot in the arm this game needs to push it back towards the greatness we have come to expect from Bioware.   I mean one thing they have always had is a strong modding community and the fact is that a lot of players would rally to make mods that fix some of the games more obvious flaws.

[SirKillsalot]

So true, but I also doubt it would happen.

[Zhijn]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

While feedback is appreciated, I would like to take a moment to discourage people who think that torches and pitchforks is the way to fix things, as you advocated, Saint. It is not.

The end result of a successful campaign to prevent all sales of DA games would likely be the end of DA, not a redesign from the ground up. And while some might call that a "win," I don't see how losing one of the increasingly rare crop of fantasy RPGs out there benefits anyone.

Reasonable, passionate feedback is the best possible thing to provide. Seeing strongly negative reaction to DA II, and strongly positive reaction to Legacy, even from some of DAII's strongest detractors (and yes, I know it's not universal, but what is), is incredibly useful.

DAO was a rare rpg because you didnt see that type of games anymore since the days of BG/NWN ect. And with DA2, well lets not kid ourself here - its just an adoptation of the mass effect type of "cinematic game" style. So right there its already lost.

However that type of games work well with the ME audience, the ME fanbase is prove of that (im one of em ofcourse). Altho i personally never wanted another ME style game, i wanted Dragon Age - a purity of a rpg - not more cinematic fast action pace rpg. And i gues thats what disappointed me the most, the massive shift (reboot?) in gameplay and art style.

I hope you return DA3 to that dark gritty and somewhat realistic tone DAO had. Drop the weird mobs that fall like they were made of lego blocks, cut down on the incredible oversized weapons, make a story that connects and have actual choices that matter instead of this linar "illusion of choice" DA2 offered. And please return the elven design to something more natural looking, it was so unique to have elfs that resembled humans in DAO who were outcasted because of their knife-ears and lineage. Think Medieval Age, and stick with it.

And last, please give DA3 an exstra year of development. It was so bloody obvious DA2 was a short job.

Modifié par Zhijn, 14 août 2011 - 09:06 .