267 réponses à ce sujet

[Uszi]

Phaedon wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...
I do like your idea of being able to have different sets for each person, but only if it works with the individuals personality.  

That's where the concept of unique armor parts and patterns focuses on.

Yeah it's a pretty good suggestion, since it would assuage the concerns of both the "Jack shouldn't be naked in a near vaccuum" crowd and the "Jack needs to be naked to be mobile" crowd without Bioware stepping on any toes.  Now players can decide just how naked they personally feel Jack needs to be.

Course, I doubt you'd get it in now.  I imagine that they design hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of variations for Shep's custom armor, and while they might only use a few in the end, I'm sure the process is a long one.

It stands to reason then, that designing dozens of sets of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of variations might be more work than BW wants to do to solve the problem.

Or more work than they need to do to solve the problem, really. 

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Exactly.  Tweaking the basic outfit is all we really need.  Plus, compare Miranda in her wonderful suit to the fashion victim in the OP's graphic.  Which do you want to play with and see in a cut scene?  It's an easy choice. 

I think that can be solved by speaking to what I said above:  the better designed the interchangeable pieces are, the better they theoretically should look even when swapped with one another.  Also note that ME2 Shep armor customization doesn't let you mismatch colors as badly as the OP image does.  I imagine squad mate armor would at least be similar, with a primary and secondary armor color applied to all of the pieces in uniform.

Again, the more time they spend on it the better it would look.  Personally, I think the threshold for what would look good vs. time spent might not necessarily be cost/time effecitve before a March release.  I would love to see it in the game, but I doubt that BW will do it unless they feel like crunching even more.

Modifié par Uszi, 01 août 2011 - 05:44 .

[PhantomSpectre]

This is really good idea.

[Phaedon]

Updated with new image.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Phaedon wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
I'll say it again, they buy them because they look cool.  They look cool because they are unified.

And a combination of the Kestrel armor with the original N7 armor is considered even cooler than both the original armor and the Kestrl one, for some.

You can definitely have custom outfits that are nice-looking.

Finally, we agree.  Based solely on the appearance, you can make nice looking armor.  Once you ignore the stats.

As I said, Thane and Legion are both infiltrators, both of them have different abilities than each other has. No matter how much you change their outfit, they'll still be unique. Besides, I know that a lot of people, maybe even the majority, pick their companions based on which character they like better, for the banter, and well, just having them on their team.

You're agreeing with me here.  Gear stats should not change how a character plays.  Which brings us back to my original point... your entire idea is for companion appearance and is not worth it.  Choosing the texture of Thane's pants is not a worthwhile feature.  Not an improvement over ME2.  They shouldn't waste the time.  I'll take a couple unified appearances that always look kickass over the ability to design Tali's codpiece.

[Phaedon]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Finally, we agree.  Based solely on the appearance, you can make nice looking armor.  Once you ignore the stats.

Definitely not a rule.

I'd argue that it is not very valid either. The armor sets will be made to resemble their stats, the Kestrel one, for example, helps you withstand more damage, and that's why it's heavy.

If done correctly, it's possible to mix various outfits and still look good, as I said. Of course you will have the better looking outfit if you don't care about the stats.

You're agreeing with me here.  Gear stats should not change how a character plays.  Which brings us back to my original point... your entire idea is for companion appearance and is not worth it.  Choosing the texture of Thane's pants is not a worthwhile feature.  Not an improvement over ME2.  They shouldn't waste the time.  I'll take a couple unified appearances that always look kickass over the ability to design Tali's codpiece.

Then you either didn't read the OP correctly or that's a huge hyperbole. You are not changing the texture of anyone's pants, you are changing them from some that encourage mobility (plain pants), to some that withstand damage (with heavy plating), and some that help you recharge quicker (like the life support webbing), the changes are pretty big and definitely worth it if you want customization.

I have no idea how you can say that we agree when we obviously don't. The outfit changes the character's attributes, but not their abilities, powers and banter, which are the reason as to why they are picked, anyway.

[jasonsantanna]

I really don't understand the ppl who are against having squad armor , is it that they missed the point and fun of having squad armor, really with the hazardous environments no clothing on Jacks body or exposed arms or ears, if it was explained that a barrier or shielding protects from this maybe it would be alright but after playing ME1 which required protection or suffer
It made no sense at all and I know its only a game, but plz!!!
There are some vids out there with mods for ME2 where there is squad matching Cerberus armor which made the team look cool, for me ME1 part of the fun was trying to find or buy armor that made the team match . . . Colossus armor was so hard to find but it also gave me replay value , it was fun to have your squad look like a unit.
So I'm all for squad customization, but at least let us have the choice, for those who don't want to change or upgrade their squad, if this is put into ME3 then don't.
During ME1 I always upgraded my team , my son would play and hardly ever open a create or ought upgrades for the team or Shep, my point is you had that choice , that's why I can't understand why ppl hated ME1 equipment load out , I either. dumped , items into omni gel or didn't open some crates or sold items , but I had choice in what I wanted to do.
I do however agree that some items especially weapons had to many variations of the same weapons . It should have been cut down and mods used to create different variatio
ns and builds of that weapon, KOTOR had one of the best customizations in a RPG , clothing, weapons and workbench for light saber building, I do agree with the OP and I love both games and truly believe that ME3 is use some of those elements for that game and others to make it satisfying to both RPG and shooter fans

[Captain Crash]

I think you labelling people to simply into either for or against. Personally Im not against squad armour at all. Im just against the concept in the OP and think its far to much. Its going to be very time consuming to style and customisation everyone on such a unique level and detail level similar to Shepard.

http://social.biowar...92923/6#8012988

Modifié par Captain Crash, 01 août 2011 - 08:44 .

[RocketManSR2]

*Puts up flame shield*

I don't want a return to ME1, but a similar system where we could buy/sell/find armor would be nice. Let's not have 10 versions of the same armor, though. Just the basic models, and each of them could have useful effects. There would be no "worthless" armor like in ME1. Of course, the armor would have an updated look for ME3, but be made by all the companies from 1. Updated geth armor, anyone?

Edit- We wouldn't carry the armor/weapons we found in some magic backpack, either. It would be sent to the ship post-mission. We wouldn't be able to equip it right away.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 01 août 2011 - 08:54 .

[Phaedon]

Phaedon wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...
However switching things like legs, arms, helmet, torso, pattern colours ect isnt something I want to have to do for each squadmate. Yes it would be cool, but as said its micromanaging too much.

Excuse me?

Captain Crash wrote...


I thought my post made it pretty clear?   Maybe not though...

I am referring to this:

isnt something I want to have to do for each squadmate.

 I want to have to do 

have to

You don't have to. You can just switch the type of armor and get one of the default outfits.

Yes customising Shepard's appearance to such a level is fun and you can spend alot of time doing it.  However doing it for each squadmember, checking out each level and statistic for everyone while planning ahead on what else to get is really is too much micromanagement and quite frankly too much.  Before you know it you spent a very long time in the loadout screen checking out what to get and what to do.

I am sorry, that doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

If you don't like the micromanagement, you can very well skip it.
If you don't care about stats, then just select what looks better, you can survive without it.
If you still care about the stats, you can select one of the types of default outfits.

I really don't get what the problem is with this, and how it is time consuming, if you don't want it to be.

Yes its a nice idea.  But its simply over-the-top having total customisation in my opinion.  I dont want to spend ages designing my squad armour and appearance.   This isnt Dragon Age Origins.  Even that game was simpler to loadout then what the OP suggests.

If you don't want to, then why would you do it? No one is forcing you?

As my first point says, I would like to see a return of some aspects of squad armour that were stripped away in ME2.  Dont get me wrong the ME2 system needs work.  Im just not a fan of doing it to the intricate level you pointed out. 


Edit: Jebels post above is also good a pointing out a few aspects and is a bit clearer at pointing out what im trying to say.  I just really dont think Shepard's level of customisation on every squadmate is necessary.  As Jebel states.

I am positive that ME1's system was much more timeconsuming.

For starters, it had I-X versions of the same armor, several different outfits, and stats.

And as I said, ME1's system is impossible to be implemented to ME3, for reasons that you can read a few pages back.

Modifié par Phaedon, 01 août 2011 - 08:54 .

[Captain Crash]

Come off it Phaedon, you know exactly what I mean. Stop defending your postion as if im personally attacking you.

no-one is forcing me to Micromanage, yes. But when your presented with a intricate and detailed customisation system and you want to play the game properly then your forced to use it. Why would I want to to keep Miranda in Gear at lvl 1 in the game when im Lvl 22?


Saying ignore/skip it is just really silly and doesn't resolve anything. So does "choose what looks most pretty". Why would I ignore something that going to weaken my team and chances?


An improved ME2 system is what I hope for. Keep the full armour. Maybe add some stats to them, but offer more variety. Looking at the Demo footage and the CE alternate appearances I think this most likely will happen.

[Phaedon]

Captain Crash wrote...

Come off it Phaedon, you know exactly what I mean. Stop defending your postion as if im personally attacking you.

Huh? Sorry if I came off that way, but that was really not my intention.

no-one is forcing me to Micromanage, yes. But when your presented with a intricate and detailed customisation system and you want to play the game properly then your forced to use it. Why would I want to to keep Miranda in Gear at lvl 1 in the game when im Lvl 22?

Well, for starters, I think that the level analogy is rather invalid, since none of the outfits are clearly better or worse. They are just for different styles of gameplay.

And as I said, you don't need to go as far as to start changing options to survive the game. The three default options are enough. And that's where I am puzzled. You mention changing patterns etc, and then levels.

Well, once you unlock a new pattern, you can always see if you prefer the one you have right now or the new one, if you really are compelled to customize. And you can play a large portion of the game like that, until you discover a new pattern.

Saying ignore/skip it is just really silly and doesn't resolve anything. So does "choose what looks most pretty". Why would I ignore something that going to weaken my team and chances?

Because you don't.

The three outfits are all as powerful, they just have different purposes, find one that fits you better. Changing parts to modify statistics is strictly  if you want a more moderate result.

And again, if you want to go deeper into customization, you will just have to change the helmet, the torso and the legs. All of them will have three options at best, it's not as if it is that complicated.

An improved ME2 system is what I hope for. Keep the full armour. Maybe add some stats to them, but offer more variety. Looking at the Demo footage and the CE alternate appearances I think this most likely will happen.

Actually, the CE apperances are definitely not final. I can see where you are coming from, I just find your criticisms unfair.

[Nexpeed]

Just hoping the inventory system will be back at ME3

[Captain Crash]

well I wouldn't consider my criticisms unfair. My opinions are just as valid as yours. Im sure you can see exactly where im coming from, even if you dont agree.

I know you put a lot of thought into this and it is a good concept. It simply isnt for me. I just really don't find heavy customisation of squad mates that appealing. Even if this was implemented there isnt an easy way to get around not using it. You will have to spend time equipping each member out. Its not something you can dismiss easily if your playing properly.


Now dont get me wrong, I do like the concept of squad customisation. I just find all the options included in the OP as rather excessive. Obviously you and several others do want some detailed variants and modifications. I just feel its something that should be restricted to Shepard and not having to do virtually the same thing for Shepard and then your (four,five,six?) team mates right afterwards.

[Varen Spectre]

MACharlie1 wrote...
What if they separated say Miranda's catsuits from her modular armors? Make use of the "Type" slider therefore there would never be a problem of aligning catsuit legs to heavy armor to medium arms.

I like this idea. IMO, that would really help with freedom of design choices. So I as a fan, who is not interested in mixing the "catsuit / casual" parts with more armored ones, really support this. It would give me soo needed hope that at least one variant would satisfy the fans of better armored squadmates.

Though, I do rember that we've already had thread(s) proposing systems with several (types of) armors (usually) with separate sets of modular parts and upgrades (IRC, even Phaedon made one with polls). Not sure how that ended... This would be kind of similar, but with little bit less choices. 

Modifié par Varen Spectre, 01 août 2011 - 11:41 .

[Icinix]

That new concept screen is awesome!

Still supporting this.

I know the idea has been bouncing around since early after ME2 - So fingers crossed we see it, or something like it!

[pmac_tk421]

This would be awesome. Nice job with the image by the way.

[100k]

Here's how I think it should work:
Armor sets are bought at stores, and divided up by species (krogan, drell, etc). Once armor is boughten once, you won't have to buy it again for other characters. One set fits all.:happy::happy::happy:

There are three classes of armor: light, medium, and heavy. Each set costs the same as the next, so a light commando armor costs the same as a heavy commando armor, say 5000 credits (or w/e).

Light armor = 20% boost to speed. No detractions.
Medium armor = 20% boost to cool downs. No detractions.
Heavy armor = 20% boost to shields. No detractions. 

The ONLY differences between armor sets like an N7 light armor and a Cerberus light armor are aesthetic. 
Each set comes with its default appearance depending on the character its on, similar to how the N7 medium comes in gray typically for Shepard.

The default appearances will be appropriate for the character it corresponds with. For example, Jack in commando leathers will put gang paint, patches, and biotic amps on her suit -- along with having it her own unique color. 

HOWEVER

Exactly like in ME2, each set can also be colored, textured, and patterned to the player's wishes. If the player wants to have Jack in commando leathers have the same armor pattern as Shepard, they can do that.

NOT EVERY CHARACTER CAN HAVE EVERY KIND OF ARMOR.(except for Shepard)

Jack cannot wear N7 armor, for instance. She can wear light commando leathers, light merc outfits, and her own unique outfits. Miranda can wear Cerberus-(influenced) armors, light commando leathers, Alliance armor, etc. Vega can wear heavy N7 armor, heavy merc outfits, but cannot wear Cerberus outfits, etc.
This is so that the developer doesn't have to make a default style for every character and every armor set. 

You've gotten rid of the problem of hoarding money.
You never have to worry about stats, because you INSTANTLY know what bonus you're getting with whatever armor you're picking up.
You never have to pick up new armor if you don't want to.
You never have to sacrifice wearing something that looks cool, for something with superior stats but less visual appeal.
You'll never be forced to move through a giant inventory list of the same items.

Answers to some problems -- 

This still sounds like a huge project for developers: Maybe not. Each character in gaming goes through a visual redesign. Often, the art director has to decide between dozens of excellent designs, right? Well, with my system, the art director wouldn't have to throw out designs. (S)He could reuse designs for the armor sets.

This doesn't leave room for customization beyond armor though: Of course it does. Belts, optic enhancers, biotic amps, gauntlets, blah blah blah-ditty-blah can still be bought--separate from the armor sets.

Modifié par 100k, 01 août 2011 - 10:10 .

[Masquerade_Assassin]

After further consideration, I've decided that I don't like this.  I was on the fence on this being "to indepth", but It's like your saying (using Jack as the example):

Shepard: *clicks on next mission in Galaxy Map* EDI get Jack and Thane to the shuttle hanger, their coming along. 
Jack: Shepard, i'm right here.  Let's take the elevator.
[Both enter the elevator, and doors shut]
Shepard: *looks at Jack's uniform*[/color] I don't think your clothes are appropiate for the mission
Jack: What do you mean?
Shepard: Well *Chooses Paragon Option*, It's just that if you wore that top with your other leggings, then you probably be more successful on our mission.
Jack: Shepard, i've worked for Cerbrus for several years, and during our stint with the collectors I wore this the entire time.  I think this is fine.  Your telling me how to dress?
Shepard: *chooses Renegade option* Just do what I say Jack, that's an order.
[The elevator doors open]
Jack: *hand starts to pulse with biotic energy, she back hands Shepard and he falls to his knees* Deal with it.
EDI: I enjoy the site of humans on their knees. . . that is a joke.

Basically, it doesn't make sense to tell your squad mates to wear this or that.  They are some experience and know what they are doing.

I'm not shooting down your idea on an "RPG" element with your squadies.  I think that's nesscary to change up gameplay.  What about 1 slot on all teammates that allows you to equip a bonus on them.  It's like an item that give them a bonus ability, just some i've come up with:

Portable Shield Amp: Doubles the power of shields
Supply Pack: When teammates notice your ammo reserves are low, they will occasionally throw you a few of their thermal clips, replenishing your total supply to at least half of what your gun can hold.
Prothean Artifact: Randomly gives them an ammo type (Armor Piercing Rounds, Warp, etc).
Asari Gem: Boosts Cool Down on Powers
Field Stragety Guide: Just for that mission, it allows them to have 4 extra squad points.  When the mission is complete the bars go back to normal
Revive: If Shepard is to die, squad mate run over and revive him.  Only once per mission.

With two squadmates coming with you per mission and each one having one slot, you get two options per mission.  There could be more bonuses created so that would alter team effectiveness and the item wouldn't show up physically on them.

Modifié par Masquerade_Assassin, 01 août 2011 - 10:33 .

[Xarathox]

So...I read a few "Do Not Wants" because it's too much "micromanaging" for them.

I'm sorry? if you're bothered enough to play a goddamn RPG, how ****ing hard would it be to allow you to switch up gear for your squad every once in a while? Options are always nice to have for people who like that sort of thing. If you don't, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO ****ING USE IT.

Modifié par Xarathox, 01 août 2011 - 10:40 .

[Sidney]

Xarathox wrote...

So...I read a few "Do Not Wants" because it's too much "micromanaging" for them.

I'm sorry? if you're bothered enough to play a goddamn RPG, how ****ing hard would it be to allow you to switch up gear for your squad every once in a while? Options are always nice to have for people who like that sort of thing. If you don't, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO ****ING USE IT.

Games = Fun. Barbie Dress Up Mechanism <> Fun .... well maybe for you. Much like the advanced WalMart simulator looting provides they are game mechanisms that basically add nothing to the games. The deep challenge of wearing better armor isn't really all that challenging.

I sure didn't miss it in ME2. I never once thought, "Wow, I'd really feel closer to Shep if he could decide how to dress Wrex".

[Xarathox]

Sidney wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

So...I read a few "Do Not Wants" because it's too much "micromanaging" for them.

I'm sorry? if you're bothered enough to play a goddamn RPG, how ****ing hard would it be to allow you to switch up gear for your squad every once in a while? Options are always nice to have for people who like that sort of thing. If you don't, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO ****ING USE IT.

Games = Fun. Barbie Dress Up Mechanism <> Fun .... well maybe for you. Much like the advanced WalMart simulator looting provides they are game mechanisms that basically add nothing to the games. The deep challenge of wearing better armor isn't really all that challenging.

I sure didn't miss it in ME2. I never once thought, "Wow, I'd really feel closer to Shep if he could decide how to dress Wrex".

And your argument is? That if you don't want it then no one should have it?

[Captain Crash]

Xarathox wrote...

So...I read a few "Do Not Wants" because it's too much "micromanaging" for them.

I'm sorry? if you're bothered enough to play a goddamn RPG, how ****ing hard would it be to allow you to switch up gear for your squad every once in a while? Options are always nice to have for people who like that sort of thing. If you don't, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO ****ING USE IT.

Nice to see you totally missed the point     Try reading full posts before you jump to conclusions.   Im not against squad upgrades as I have pointed out.  I just dont want them excessive and over the top which causes too much time micromanaging the squadscreen.  I think its a legitimate concern as I dont want to upgrade all squadmates to Shepard's level. 

In fact just read Jebel Krong's post here:  http://social.biowar...92923/6#8012954

Also as I point out above "the dont use it" arguement is hard to ignore if your playing the game properly.   All I want is a good balance and I feel the OP is just a bit excessive.

[Masquerade_Assassin]

Captain Crash wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

So...I read a few "Do Not Wants" because it's too much "micromanaging" for them.

I'm sorry? if you're bothered enough to play a goddamn RPG, how ****ing hard would it be to allow you to switch up gear for your squad every once in a while? Options are always nice to have for people who like that sort of thing. If you don't, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO ****ING USE IT.

Nice to see you totally missed the point     Try reading full posts before you jump to conclusions.   Im not against squad upgrades as I have pointed out.  I just dont want them excessive and over the top which causes too much time micromanaging the squadscreen.  I think its a legitimate concern as I dont want to upgrade all squadmates to Shepard's level. 

In fact just read Jebel Krong's post here:  http://social.biowar...92923/6#8012954

Also as I point out above "the dont use it" arguement is hard to ignore if your playing the game properly.   All I want is a good balance and I feel the OP is just a bit excessive.

Agreed, there isn't a middle ground with equipping armor with your teammates.

You make the armor worth hardly nothing, there's no point it being there.
You make the armor worth a ton then people are forced into fiddling with pieces of armor just for the squad.

Mass Effect is both an RPG and a Shooter.  We already have research options that allowed us to increase the weapon damage, health, and power cool down of our team mates.

[Sidney]

Xarathox wrote...
And your argument is? That if you don't want it then no one should have it?

All things take time and money in development. Building in Alien Dressup Adventures and all the textures and art takes time. That's time that I'd rather see spent on parts of the game (plot, character, settings) that mater to a role playing experience. Your preference costs me things I prefer in the grand scheme of things.

[jasonsantanna]

Xarathox wrote...

So...I read a few "Do Not Wants" because it's too much "micromanaging" for them.

I'm sorry? if you're bothered enough to play a goddamn RPG, how ****ing hard would it be to allow you to switch up gear for your squad every once in a while? Options are always nice to have for people who like that sort of thing. If you don't, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO ****ING USE IT.

Thank you 100%, why are they so scared of having choices in the game , that's part of the fun , do they want every aspect of decision made for them