139 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

As most suspected: Martin is simply playing his cards in attempt to come out on top.

WHO THE **** IS MARTIN?!

Martin Sheen?

The guy who voices TIM?

[Ianamus]

Well, Shepard says "Cerberus are indoctrinated" in the demo, although he himself may have been misinformed. I hope that this quote is a sign that it's more complicated than that. If Cerberus are going to have to be a major part of the story then they might as well be interesting, and have some form of plot-twist.

[Savber100]

Good.

I'll hate to see Cerberus just playing the evil Human organization for the sake of it.

Hopefully, they have a good explanation for TIM rather than something riddled with plotholes.

[marshalleck]

Eh, they kept teasing similar lines about the Collectors.

"Who are they and where do they get their amazing technology? Could they be connected to the Reapers?"

Derr, of course they are. And sure enough, they were.

I'll freely admit to being a jaded cynic here, but I think it will probably turn out that most of Cerberus went off and got indoctrinated or something and you can either help TIM get it under control, or let it blow up. I hope I'm wrong and there's something more complex going on. but I just have a hard time believing it will be anything else.

Indoctrination is a weak plot device that lets the writers make any character do whatever they want them to do without having to keep it in character or give the action any motivation. It's cheap-ass mind control and I hate it. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 juillet 2011 - 12:05 .

[Icinix]

EJ107 wrote...

Well, Shepard says "Cerberus are indoctrinated" in the demo, although he himself may have been misinformed. I hope that this quote is a sign that it's more complicated than that. If Cerberus are going to have to be a major part of the story then they might as well be interesting, and have some form of plot-twist.

When I first heard that - I assumed that Shep and everyone were assuming they were indoctrinated.

It was obvious then thats its much more complicated than that.  I wouldn't be surprised if TIM deliberately allowed them to be indoctrinated and was feeding them information to make it look like he was helping them, when in fact working 'from within' as it were - kind of like what;  

-- *Potential Novel Spoiler * -- Grayson did when he realised he didn't have complete control of his faculties in the novels.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...

Eh, they kept teasing similar lines about the Collectors.

"Who are they and where do they get their amazing technology? Could they be connected to the Reapers?"

Derr, of course they are. And sure enough, they were.

I'll freely admit to being a jaded cynic here, but I think it will probably turn out that most of Cerberus went off and got indoctrinated or something and you can either help TIM get it under control, or let it blow up. I hope I'm wrong and there's something more complex going on. but I just have a hard time believing it will be anything else.

Indoctrination is a weak plot device that lets the writers make any character do whatever they want them to do without having to keep it in character or give the action any motivation. It's cheap-ass mind control and I hate it. 

So, your logic is basically

"Oh, yeah, they were basically throwing silly hints like these for the Collectors, which ended up being true, but now that I think about it, it won't happen for Cerberus"

?

[Savber100]

marshalleck wrote...

Eh, they kept teasing similar lines about the Collectors.

"Who are they and where do they get their amazing technology? Could they be connected to the Reapers?"

Derr, of course they are. And sure enough, they were.

I'll freely admit to being a jaded cynic here, but I think it will probably turn out that most of Cerberus went off and got indoctrinated or something and you can either help TIM get it under control, or let it blow up. I hope I'm wrong and there's something more complex going on. but I just have a hard time believing it will be anything else.

Indoctrination is a weak plot device that lets the writers make any character do whatever they want them to do without having to keep it in character or give the action any motivation. It's cheap-ass mind control and I hate it. 

Hmm.. 

But you have to see that currently Bioware is more "Why has Cerberus turned against you?" and leaving a seemingly false trail that screams "They must be working for the Reapers because they got indoctrinated!" 

I feel like it's all a red herring. 

So I think this is different from the Collector question where it was more like "derp" rather than "whoa". 

But if Bioware just ends this with a "Cerberus got indoctrinated so you should go help TIM", I'll just throw my mouse against the wall. 

But I seriously doubt Bioware would overlook the spoiler in the Sur'kesh demo if there wasn't something more to it. 

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Eh, they kept teasing similar lines about the Collectors.

"Who are they and where do they get their amazing technology? Could they be connected to the Reapers?"

Derr, of course they are. And sure enough, they were.

I'll freely admit to being a jaded cynic here, but I think it will probably turn out that most of Cerberus went off and got indoctrinated or something and you can either help TIM get it under control, or let it blow up. I hope I'm wrong and there's something more complex going on. but I just have a hard time believing it will be anything else.

Indoctrination is a weak plot device that lets the writers make any character do whatever they want them to do without having to keep it in character or give the action any motivation. It's cheap-ass mind control and I hate it. 

So, your logic is basically

"Oh, yeah, they were basically throwing silly hints like these for the Collectors, which ended up being true, but now that I think about it, it won't happen for Cerberus"

?

Eh, no. What I mean is that when Casey sort of backtracks and says Cerberus "almost appear to be" working with the Reapers, I don't believe the implication that it's actually something else. I suspect they are just working for the Reapers. 

What I want to see and what I expect to see are two different things. What I want is some complex motivation for TIM/Cerberus to be after Shepard, and I don't want that motivation to be cheap indoctrination. What I expect is that TIM/Cerberus will be indoctrinated, and trying to kill Shepard.

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 juillet 2011 - 12:21 .

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
Eh, no. What I mean is that when Casey sort of backtracks and says Cerberus "almost appear to be" working with the Reapers, I don't believe the implication that it's actually something else. I suspect they are just working for the Reapers. 

Then why the "almost" here and the hint on the Walters interview?

Unless you consider a 15 feet tall mech and a "They are indoctrinated" line which appears to be the only line to be recorded as party banter in the entire E3 demo as subtle hints.

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Eh, no. What I mean is that when Casey sort of backtracks and says Cerberus "almost appear to be" working with the Reapers, I don't believe the implication that it's actually something else. I suspect they are just working for the Reapers. 

Then why the "almost" here and the hint on the Walters interview?

Unless you consider a 15 feet tall mech and a "They are indoctrinated" line which appears to be the only line to be recorded as party banter in the entire E3 demo as subtle hints.

Because I guess they think they're being subtle? As I said with ME2 and the Collectors; Bioware took the same approach, dropping obvious bombshell hints and being all like "what? I don't know, maybe there is a connection, what do you think!?"

Derp.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
Because I guess they think they're being subtle? As I said with ME2 and the Collectors; Bioware took the same approach, dropping obvious bombshell hints and being all like "what? I don't know, maybe there is a connection, what do you think!?"

Derp.

No, if they thought they were subtle the last time, they would throw the hints we saw during this week, along with Casey Hudson saying about how TIM's intentions were being "safeguarded" or the fact that they actually made Evolution, Ascensions, Retribution, Invasion and Deception for character development.

Modifié par Phaedon, 30 juillet 2011 - 12:32 .

[ThePwener]

So Cerberus is, or isn't working with them...... now I think that indoctrination has nothing to do with it. Thank God for that.

[marshalleck]

I've been a gamer too long to have faith in what any developer says about their own project.

Faith gets you burned.

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 juillet 2011 - 12:33 .

[Darksaberexile]

I'm not too concerned about why we're fighting Cerberus, most of my characters are paragon/paragade and destroyed the base, so it makes sense anyways.

And if TIM is working on his own and trying to keep up appearances, he wouldn't care if something's overkill. Remember him using you as bait to find a way through the Omega 4 Relay. Even when he's overtly on your side he doesn't mind taking extreme risks with your safety, so I'd doubt he'd be even a little careful with what he sends after you that might kill you.

[Phaedon]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Even if you destroyed the base it doesn't make much sense for Cerberus to be gunning for you.

No, not really. Not by itself at least.

Then again, if you look at the Grayson case, they only need an additional motive to pick you out as a target.

[ThePwener]

Darksaberexile wrote...

I'm not too concerned about why we're fighting Cerberus, most of my characters are paragon/paragade and destroyed the base, so it makes sense anyways.

And if TIM is working on his own and trying to keep up appearances, he wouldn't care if something's overkill. Remember him using you as bait to find a way through the Omega 4 Relay. Even when he's overtly on your side he doesn't mind taking extreme risks with your safety, so I'd doubt he'd be even a little careful with what he sends after you that might kill you.

No, BW already said that Cerberus IS gunning for Shepard, not bumping on him. It's also been said that Kai Leng along with other special Cerberus operatives has been deployed to [exclusively] take down shepard.

It wouldn't surprise me that TIM thinks he can control the reapers somehow and wants Shepard out of the picture so he doesn't destroy the Reapers/stop him.

[Mims]

When Shepard says "They're indoctrinated!" I took that more as a case of Shepard/crew not being reliable narrators. Without the rest of the plot, we don't really know what basis Shepard is framing that on. For all we know, Cerberus is trying to kill Shepard because they have reason to believe Shepard is, or could be, indoctrinated. [Or at least poses some sort of 'security' risk to humanity.]

Although, the short preview up on the comic does indicate that at least some Cerberus operatives have been indoctrinated/reaperfied.

[javierabegazo]

marshalleck wrote...

I've been a gamer too long to have faith in what any developer says about their own project.

Faith gets you burned.

I think you need what all abandoned kittens need, A saucer of warm milk and a hug

[Someone With Mass]

Take it with a nice, big scoop of salt.

[ThePwener]

javierabegazo wrote...
I think you need what all abandoned kittens need, A saucer of warm milk and a hug

It worked with my little Sasha.

BW hasn't let us down.... yet.... *cough* Human-Terminator-Reaper-Larva-Thing *cough*

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
Faith gets you burned.

Not according to Mirror's Edge.

[marshalleck]

javierabegazo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I've been a gamer too long to have faith in what any developer says about their own project.

Faith gets you burned.

I think you need what all abandoned kittens need, A saucer of warm milk and a hug

Can I trade in the saucer of warm milk and hug for more game content with the qality of Legacy? That would make me a mindless happy Bioware fanboy again.

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Faith gets you burned.

Not according to Mirror's Edge.

I love that game, and you just stuck a knife in my ribs reminding me how the sequel got canceled.