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Den of Delusions - The morality discussion topic

Débuté par Kaiser Shepard , juil. 30 2011 01:18

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#2476
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:31

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Fixers0 wrote...

In your idea by saving Humanity we lose everything that make us what we are.

 


It is a not a contradiction. I never said humanity could be saved in its current state. It can't. However it can grow and change, it can live on, it can become something new.

#2477
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:31

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

I rather die fighting than becoming part of something that isn't even remotely human any longer.


You see? I'm not a coward, but you are selfish. It's not about humanity, it's just about your personal pride.


It's not about pride. I'm not selfish, YOU ARE.

You know what the reapers do. Do you approve of that? Do you approve of the fact that they play god and kill every last man, woman and child every 50.000 years?


We both KNOW what the reapers do, we both know it's horrible. Even IF we could not win the war, would you really want to betray your own species and EVERY SINGLE OTHER SPECIES that will come after us?

Just because you can't be part of the solution (destroying the reapers), doesn't mean you have to be part of the problem (the reapers). You can always give up and NOT give the reapers your body and soul. So please, IF you're going to give up (that's what do you), please THINK about what you're doing and DON'T damn the whole galaxy with your deluded idea of "salvation".


And seriously, think of what the protheans did. They tried EVERYTHING they could to give the next space-faring a species and edge against the reapers. They did EVERYTHING they could to give us an advantage. You're willing to UNDO all that and simply join the reapers because YOU'RE SELFISH?

If we're going down, I rather go down the same way the protheans did. When I go down, I will do EVERYTHING I can to give the next space-faring species an edge against the reapers. Maybe THEY WILL succeed against the reapers and liberate the galaxy of the plague that the reapers are.


Saphra Deden wrote...

Pride and honor are just human inventions. We'll have no need of them in our new form. 


Don't you get it? There is no "we", there is no "our"! The human reaper ISN'T human, it's a REAPER. It's an entity on it's own. There is no "we" in the human reaper, there is only "it".

Modifié par Luc0s, 15 août 2011 - 02:35 .

#2478
Kaiser Shepard
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:34

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Typical paragoon behavior: get pwn'd by a reasonable argument, take insult, claim higher moral ground.

Zulu, I'd be very careful and re-read the context of Saphra and sis's remarks. Saphra broke out the insults pages ago, and hasn't stopped.


That makes her rude, but not wrong.^_^

Now there's a proper plottwist if I ever saw one.

And 100! Posted Image

#2479
Someone With Mass
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:37

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

What research? I'd like to see those research papaers.

And one more note - more brain activity doesnt' mean you're making a better decision.


Eh...yes, it does.

If you have more brain activity and can think about all the outcomes and take all the facts and possibilities into account, you'll make better decisions.

#2480
Fixers0
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:37

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

In your idea by saving Humanity we lose everything that make us what we are.

 


It is a not a contradiction. I never said humanity could be saved in its current state. It can't. However it can grow and change, it can live on, it can become something new.


A giant metal cuttlefish doens't ever deserve to carry the name "Humanity" no matter how many human biological slush the reapers stuffed into it

It's a total disgrace for any Human to think that we will be better off as pasty liquid.

Also give a scientifc explanations of how my thoughts are going to survive once my brain and the rest of my body are naught but glowing goo? 

#2481
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:39

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Luc0s wrote...

You know what the reapers do. Do you approve of that? Do you approve of the fact that they play god and kill every last man, woman and child every 50.000 years?


I'm completely indifferent to what they do unless it effects humanity. Obviously it does effect us but since we can't hope to stop it I feel the best thing for the species as a whole to be compliant. There is no sense in fighting inevitability.


Luc0s wrote...

Just because you can't be part of the solution (destroying the reapers), doesn't mean you have to be part of the problem (the reapers).


It wont' be a problem once we are part of it.

#2482
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:40

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What Saphra fails to understand is that I think the reapers have no right to play gods over the galaxy, just like we humans have no right to play gods over our planet earth (that's why I'm vegetarian myself, I do not approve of the meat-industry and how it treats animals are mere products instead of sentient beings).

I would GLADLY sacrifice myself or even my entire species to STOP the reapers so life can continue NATURALLY without the reapers playing god every 50.000 years.

#2483
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:43

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

You know what the reapers do. Do you approve of that? Do you approve of the fact that they play god and kill every last man, woman and child every 50.000 years?


I'm completely indifferent to what they do unless it effects humanity. Obviously it does effect us but since we can't hope to stop it I feel the best thing for the species as a whole to be compliant. There is no sense in fighting inevitability.


There is no sense in selling your soul to the devil either. No, in fact, what you do isn't even "selling" your soul to the devil, you GIVE AWAY your soul FREELY to the devil.

If we're going to die, I rather die with DIGNITY and not join the plague.


Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Just because you can't be part of the solution (destroying the reapers), doesn't mean you have to be part of the problem (the reapers).


It wont' be a problem once we are part of it.


There is no "we", only "it". When the humans get turned into a reaper, there is no "we" or "us", only they and it.

We (you and I) would be as much part of the reaper as you are part of your own children. Your children are your legacy, but they are not you, get it?

Now we get that cleared up, I have to ask you this: Why would you want your legacy to be a 2km big killing machine that will reap and kill and cause suffering and pain every 50.000 years?

Heck, the human reaper wouldn't even be our legacy, it would be THEIR legacy, the legacy of the reapers themselves. We humans merely serve as resources to form the human reaper. Yes, that's what we are to the reapers, RESOURCES, BUILDING BRICKS, nothing more.


Also, this comment proves how selfish you are. You don't care if you doom every single space-faring species to come after humanity as long as you can continue your deluded idea of "salvation".

Modifié par Luc0s, 15 août 2011 - 03:03 .

#2484
xXljoshlXx
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:47

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

You know what the reapers do. Do you approve of that? Do you approve of the fact that they play god and kill every last man, woman and child every 50.000 years?


I'm completely indifferent to what they do unless it effects humanity. Obviously it does effect us but since we can't hope to stop it I feel the best thing for the species as a whole to be compliant. There is no sense in fighting inevitability.


Do you know what hope means?

Saphra Deden wrote...
It wont' be a problem once we are part of it.

We will be part of the problem the problem won't be eliminated

#2485
Longsword-83
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:54

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Huh. Just realized something about myself.

I'm normally a full Paragon player, but here I am endorsing the idea of Human superiority.

Guess I'm a little Renegade after all.

#2486
Lotion Soronarr
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:59

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

What research? I'd like to see those research papaers.

And one more note - more brain activity doesnt' mean you're making a better decision.


Eh...yes, it does.

If you have more brain activity and can think about all the outcomes and take all the facts and possibilities into account, you'll make better decisions.


No, no it doesn't. You know specific parts of hte brain do specific stuff.

I cna think of how to solve the puzzle and at the same time imagine naked chicks - my brain activity will be higher than if I just work on he puzzle. .. yet I'm willing to bet it won't help me solve the puzzle faster...if anything, ti will hurt my attempts.

#2487
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:06

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If you think about it, the reapers are much like a locust plague. Realizing that might put things in perspective for the people who are incapable of doing so, *ahum*Saphra*ahum*.

Think about it, the locust plagues are giving the farmers in Afrika a hard time. Now what if we can't do anything about the locust plague, what should we do? According to Saphra's "logic", we should just become part of the locust plague ourselves...


See how twisted and insane her "logic" is? Heck, even doing NOTHING against the locust/reaper problem is better than JOINING the problem. Seriously...

And no, keep in mind that WE do NOT benefit from joining the problem, because when we join the plague there is no "we" or "us", there is only "they", the reapers. We humans merely serve as building-blocks to form a reaper. We would be just bricks in a wall, nothing more.


(PS: You are a "her" right Saphra?)

Modifié par Luc0s, 15 août 2011 - 03:11 .

#2488
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:11

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Luc0s wrote...

If you think about it, the reapers are much like a locust plague. Realizing that might put things in perspective for the people who are incapable of doing so, *ahum*Saphra*ahum*.


No, they are exactly what we call them: Reapers. They sow the seeds of growth and then harvest it. We have an opportunity to move from the harvested to the harvesters. We should take it.

#2489
Xilizhra
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:12

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

If you think about it, the reapers are much like a locust plague. Realizing that might put things in perspective for the people who are incapable of doing so, *ahum*Saphra*ahum*.


No, they are exactly what we call them: Reapers. They sow the seeds of growth and then harvest it. We have an opportunity to move from the harvested to the harvesters. We should take it.





Or end the harvest altogether.

#2490
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:12

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

If you think about it, the reapers are much like a locust plague. Realizing that might put things in perspective for the people who are incapable of doing so, *ahum*Saphra*ahum*.


No, they are exactly what we call them: Reapers. They sow the seeds of growth and then harvest it. We have an opportunity to move from the harvested to the harvesters. We should take it.


But that's just it, we DO NOT have the opportunity to become the harvester. We merely have the opportunity to become building-blocks that are used as bricks to build another harvester from. There is no "we" or "us" in that harvester (e.g. the human reaper).

Also, the locust do exactly the same. They also harvest. So the locust plague analogy is correct.

Also, the reapers don't sow anything. They only harvest. The reapers don't create life, they merely lure us in a trap that they set up. What the reapers do is closer to hunting than sowing.

Modifié par Luc0s, 15 août 2011 - 03:15 .

#2491
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:14

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Xilizhra wrote...

Or end the harvest altogether.


Not an option.

Luc0s wrote...

But that's just it, we DO NOT have the opportunity to become the harvester.


Yes, we do. That's what Harbringer wants with us. That's our ascension, our salvation (through destruction). What is will be no more, what was will be again.

#2492
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:17

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Or end the harvest altogether.


Not an option.


It IS an option. If WE can't win from the reapers, we can still TRY to cripple them so the NEXT species AFTER us might have a better chance as defeating them.


Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

But that's just it, we DO NOT have the opportunity to become the harvester.


Yes, we do. That's what Harbringer wants with us. That's our ascension, our salvation (through destruction). What is will be no more, what was will be again.


You still don't get it do you? Do you think there is ANYTHING left of the original species that are now machines we call the reapers?

Harbinger just talks nonsense. What we humans REALLY are to them is just resources, bricks, building-blocks. You and I will be nothing more but another brick in the reaper-wall.

Modifié par Luc0s, 15 août 2011 - 03:19 .

#2493
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:18

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Luc0s wrote...

You still don't get it do you? Do you think there is ANYTHING left of the original species that are now machines we call the reapers?


Let's just say that I think it is a possibility worth exploring.

#2494
Sundance31us
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:18

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Longsword-83 wrote...

Huh. Just realized something about myself.

I'm normally a full Paragon player, but here I am endorsing the idea of Human superiority.

Guess I'm a little Renegade after all.

Paragrade epiphany in progress. ;)

#2495
xXljoshlXx
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:19

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[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

Or end the harvest altogether.
[/quote]

That's always an option.
[/quote]
Fix'd
[quote]Luc0s wrote...

But that's just it, we DO NOT have the opportunity to become the harvester.[/quote]

Yes, we do. That's what Harbringer wants with us. That's our ascension, our salvation (through destruction). What is will be no more, what was will be again.
[/quote]
He never gave details

#2496
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:20

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

You still don't get it do you? Do you think there is ANYTHING left of the original species that are now machines we call the reapers?


Let's just say that I think it is a possibility worth exploring.



O really?

Well, then let's just say that I think it's far more worth exploring possibilities that might stop the reapers, be it now or 50.000 years later when new species have evolved.

What do you want your legacy to be? A machine that inflicts fear, pain and suffering? Or a sprankle of hope for the new species that will come after us 50.000 years in the future?

Do you rather become part of the PROBLEM (joining the reapers) or become part of the SOLUTION (trying to find something to stop the reapers and leave that as your legacy for the next species to come)?

Modifié par Luc0s, 15 août 2011 - 03:22 .

#2497
Ieldra
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:20

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Longsword-83 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
If Reapers are destorying Earth, and they're helping the Reapers with that task, then yes, they are against the Alliance.


Forgive me if I'm just thick, but has it actually been stated that Cerberus is working FOR the Reapers? I keep forgetting.

It hasn't. In fact, it has been indicated that TIM is "still very much himself" and that there won't be a revelation of the kind that TIM has been an enemy all along. (Mac Walters in a Tweet)

#2498
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:21

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Luc0s wrote...

Well, then let's just say that I think it's far more worth exploring possibilities that might stop the reapers, be it now or 50.000 years later when new species have evolved.


Those are worth exploring too, but in the event we don't find any we should be willing to embrace our Reapers.

#2499
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:24

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Well, then let's just say that I think it's far more worth exploring possibilities that might stop the reapers, be it now or 50.000 years later when new species have evolved.


Those are worth exploring too, but in the event we don't find any we should be willing to embrace our Reapers.


No, because that would mean ANOTHER EXTRA reaper. We should just embrace our death but REFUSE to become part of the problem (joining the reapers).

I rather die and cease to exist than die and become part of the reapers who think they can play gods over our galaxy.


The reapers are tyrants. I rather die than serve a tyrant.


The search for something to STOP the reapers is the ONLY option WORTH exploring.

Modifié par Luc0s, 15 août 2011 - 03:25 .

#2500
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 15 août 2011 - 03:27

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Luc0s wrote...

No, because that would mean ANOTHER EXTRA reaper.


So what? That extra Reaper is also the continued legacy of humanity.


Yeah, I know you'd rather die, but all you can think about is yourself. As I said, you're selfish.
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