3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

Humanity would not exist. That is like saying the food I eat allows the "cow to exist in a different form".

The sentient species these things are breaking down are fuel.

The sci-fi equivalent of an energy drink.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Medhia Nox wrote...
If every race had said "F-YOU" to the Reapers (provided they had the chance) instead of giving in - then the cycle would have never been started (aside from the fact that the Reapers were assuredly created by the first species in existence capable of high thought processes).

We have no indication that willingness is required from the speices to become a Reaper. They certainly didn't ask the colonists' opinion when they turrned them into goo. So whether they are willing participants or not is irrelevent.

Unless by f you, you mean mass suicide, but that's unfeasible, and the Reapers attack by surprise anyhow.

Now if one race was confronted with a choice of defeating the Reapers, but becoming weak beyond repair in the process and be destined to be victim to others, or becoming Reapers. Then they didn't say F-You.
And that's a choice I am willing to make myself.

[SandTrout]

Xilizhra wrote...

I believe equal interdependence would be better. Make everyone rely on everyone else, make everyone motivated to help everyone else. It would serve humanity well along with the other species, and lessens the potential for war.

Then you advocate the removal of everything that has allowed our species to advance to the point where this might be possible, and if achieved, would only result in stagnation, which is a sure path to extinction if one ever existed.

As long as our species remains self-interested in our individual survival and comfort, we will continue to advance and create in our efforts to get a let up on the next guy.

The lie of absolute equality has always simply been a means to justify the taking from those which create by mobilizing those which do not. The almost humorous thing is that the ones that the takers supposedly represent generally end up suffering worse under this 'altruism'.

[Medhia Nox]

@KnightsPheonix: What I mean by "F-YOU" is doing at least what Shepard is doing.

Whether the species is eventually turned into a Reaper cannot be helped - but Saphra is condoning surrender for self-preservation. To me - that is a craven's action, and I do not abide cravens.

The Protheans fought back - and true, they lost - so did the race that made the canon that blew that Reaper to hell and back - and true, they lost, but that's a far cry from cowardice due to self-interest.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sisterofshane wrote...
Still, there is no reason to believe that there is anything left of the collective species after they have been transformed.  Why do they all side with one another?  Why have they all agreed that this "cycle" must continue, even though seemingly before hand, we can assume that each species fought to the bitter end?

There is a fundamental transformation that takes place when a species is "ascended", and I think it is forced upon us.  Whether it be implanted after the fact, or a side-effect of the horrifying process changing our very psychology, we are no longer "humans", as we know it today.

One question I always wondered was that, if we will be "a nation, independent, free of all weaknesses", why is it then that all Reapers just fall in line, not even questioning the nature of their existence?  It's almost as if they have lost all philosophical motivations for living.  IMO, I think that is a weakness.  They lose the ability to self-determinate.  Not really a future I would want for myself, or I think I would just go become a Stepford Wife.

Maybe they were enlightened. We have no indication that brainwashing is involved, or that the Reapers share a collective mind or thought process, indeed Legion rejects that theory. Why do they all fall in line? Could just be convinction in what they are doing. Or simply having nothing else to do.

Who told you that they do not question their existence? Obviously Sovereign and Harbinger are not going to philosophize to Shepard. Perhaps they discuss things amongst themselves. Perhaps they discuss things within themselves, and they all reach a similar conclusion. Perhaps that's what they mean by perfect. They reached a universal absolute truth. That imposing order on nature is the peak of sentient existence.

[SalsaDMA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

From the sounds of it, you wanted to kill them anyway, so no difference there...

Kill? Nah. Well, the asari maybe. I see no reason to engage in active extermination of the others. That would just be too time consuming and cause too many problems on many fronts.

I just want humans to have as much power as possible to keep them as free as possible from alien influence.

But by giving in to the reapers imply killing everyone else. You can't both have your cookie and eat it at the same time, you know.

[Medhia Nox]

@KnightPheonix - They are not imposing order on nature - they have nothing to do with nature. They attack space faring species. If anything - they are allowing nature to do its thing before a sentient species can "impose order".

[In Exile]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
What Sovereign says, that they are each an independent nation, and Legion's comment that says Reapers are closer to us than to AIs (as in even their collective mind thing is not like the geth), makes the prospect of existing as Reapers appealing in some ways.  

The geth are a collective mind in a way, though. It may be that each independent AI in the reaper is in some sense a person.

Based on what we know, which is little, I do not believe it's a horrible existence. I would not exist. You would not exist. But Humanity would, in a different form.

I personally don't see the appeal. If I don't and can't exist, then I'd like to secure a future for those I care about, but if they can't exist either... then what does it even mean for humanity to exist? There would be nothing recognizably human about it.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Den, not to go off-topic too much even though it's my own topic, but are any of you going to Gamescom?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@KnightsPheonix: What I mean by "F-YOU" is doing at least what Shepard is doing.

Whether the species is eventually turned into a Reaper cannot be helped - but Saphra is condoning surrender for self-preservation. To me - that is a craven's action, and I do not abide cravens.

The Protheans fought back - and true, they lost - so did the race that made the canon that blew that Reaper to hell and back - and true, they lost, but that's a far cry from cowardice due to self-interest.

The Protheans had no choice however (they are not Reaper material), and we do not know if the species that built the canon was considered suitable.

But if they were told they had a chance to become Reapers, would they have refused?
That is of course assuming that Reapers even give a choice, but if hypothetically they end up doing so in ME3, it's an option I personally am willing to consider, depending on how I think he post-reaper galaxy will turn out to be.

[SandTrout]

No one buys into your pessimism, Saphra. You should probably think about why that is.

[In Exile]

Sisterofshane wrote...
One question I always wondered was that, if we will be "a nation, independent, free of all weaknesses", why is it then that all Reapers just fall in line, not even questioning the nature of their existence?  It's almost as if they have lost all philosophical motivations for living.  IMO, I think that is a weakness.  They lose the ability to self-determinate.  Not really a future I would want for myself, or I think I would just go become a Stepford Wife.

Or it may be that being a reaper is like heaven - a portable, technological afterlife, for as long as the universe exists. No pain, no suffering, just pure bliss. Everything we'd all want out of life. And that feeling so great the reapers just have to share. 

[SalsaDMA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

But by giving in to the reapers imply killing everyone else. You can't both have your cookie and eat it at the same time, you know.

It's unfortunate for everyone else, but it can't be helpled. They're going to die either way.

Humanity is the only race I can perseve as well as any future species which are deemed capable of ascension.

And it makes you contradict yourself in regards to your comments. Nice show chap.

Could you at least be consistent when trolling?

[KnightofPhoenix]

In Exile wrote...
The geth are a collective mind in a way, though. It may be that each independent AI in the reaper is in some sense a person.

But why would he use the word "nation"?
I think each Reaper has a collective mind, but is unique when compared to the others.

And if that uniqueness which makes each an independent nation is based on the assimilated species, then humanity can continue to exist in that form. As an eternal nation.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@KnightPheonix - They are not imposing order on nature - they have nothing to do with nature. They attack space faring species. If anything - they are allowing nature to do its thing before a sentient species can "impose order".

It's precisely because they have nothing to do with nature that they can impose order on it.
And by that, I mean a calculated wipe out that happens every 50.000 years, something nature can't do (as in have a specific date for it). And turning some species into eternal beings that do not whither and die.

If anything, they are mocking nature and showing they can kill whatever it produces.

[Zulu_DFA]

SandTrout wrote...

No one buys into your pessimism, Saphra. You should probably think about why that is.

It's because there is no point in making the Reapers' job any easier.

[SandTrout]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

No one buys into your pessimism, Saphra. You should probably think about why that is.

Nobody likes a cynic. It is that simple.

Yeah, and those unpopular fellows don't buy into your crap.

Cynicism =/= defeatist.

[Barquiel]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

That is of course assuming that Reapers even give a choice, but if hypothetically they end up doing so in ME3, it's an option I personally am willing to consider, depending on how I think he post-reaper galaxy will turn out to be.

You know what happens if the reapers win. It can't get any worse for humanity, even if it will take centuries to recover (and we end up being a turian protectorate or something).

[SandTrout]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

No one buys into your pessimism, Saphra. You should probably think about why that is.

It's because there is no point in making the Reapers' job any easier.

I really wish Saphra could figure that out.