3618 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

If you think for just a sec about the fraction of the population that will get involved in the actual fighting, you'll know that it's negligible.

No, I don't know that at all. 

Because you refuse to accept that anything you say is less than the word of God itself.

[Sisterofshane]

GodWood wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
I'm pretty much a nihilist.

Luc0s wrote...
I'm pretty much a Buddhist

Make up your mind lad

Those two POV are not incompatible.  In fact, nihilism is paramount to Buddha's existence -- there is no value placed in the material world, and buddhists feel that this leads to transcendence.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Den, not to go off-topic too much even though it's my own topic, but are any of you going to Gamescom?

No one?

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Who are they to judge us "worthy" of such a higher existence? 

They are the ones with the power to do so, that's who.

Glad to see you are no longer "ignoring" me entirely -- oh wait, no I'm not.

They are going to have to then PROVE they have the power to force their existence upon me by defeating my species in combat.

[Medhia Nox]

@SisterofShane: Transcendence is not nihilism however. Zen Buddhisms "emptiness" is not the same as sciences "nothingness".

[Medhia Nox]

@Saphra Deden: No they won't. I'll prove it to you when the game comes out.

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

If you think for just a sec about the fraction of the population that will get involved in the actual fighting, you'll know that it's negligible.

No, I don't know that at all. 

Fail.

A pity.

[Sisterofshane]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@SisterofShane: Transcendence is not nihilism however. Zen Buddhisms "emptiness" is not the same as sciences "nothingness".

One is a scientific argument, the other philosophical.  The reasons behind believing these concepts may be different, but they are just different means to an end. ( all roads leading to the same conclusion, Buddhists?)

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

They are going to have to then PROVE they have the power to force their existence upon me by defeating my species in combat.

...and they will.

So says the dev...oh wait.  You haven't actually contributed anything to the production of the game have you?

No, I didn't think so.

[Medhia Nox]

@SisterofShane: Zen Buddhism's "Emptiness" is not the same as ceasing to exist - it is a state of being, not a cessation of being. Anyway - of topic - moving on.

[Medhia Nox]

@Saphra Deden: but you can't place yourself into the Mass Effect universe - not "logically" like you're so fond of. There are an incalculable amount of variables that you cannot possibly take into account to determine whether or not the Reapers could be defeated in the Mass Effect universe.

We know they can be destroyed - that is proof that they "can" be defeated.

We also know that they have wiped out every galactic community prior - that is proof that they can defeat us.

We have also collected weaponry that can cause them greater harm - the alien canon - and Prothean data (information is a weapon). These were -presumably not available prior.

We also have information from the Thorian - if Bioware wishes to make it more relevant.

We also have information from the Rachni - if Bioware wishes to make it more relevant.

We also prevented them from getting the Citadel (and I propose that they were actually beaten here) - and all the information and ability they would have obtained from it.

Bioware has plainly shown that Humanity (and the current ME universe) is uniquely poised to beat the Reapers like no prior galactic community was capable.

Your notion that it is impossible has no evidence what so ever.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 15 août 2011 - 07:46 .

[SandTrout]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No. Depending on how hard and desperately humanity fights nearly the entire species could be wiped out.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

They are going to have to then PROVE they have the power to force their existence upon me by defeating my species in combat.

...and they will.

So.... which is it? Is it dependent of how hard we fight, which will be damn hard considering what we're facing, or is it predetermined?

Modifié par SandTrout, 15 août 2011 - 07:47 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

From that perspective there is really no hope of victory. Everything is stacked against us.

I think you have had Sun Tzu qouted to you enough times to know,when the odds seem impossible,we gain nothing if not the purest inspiration to do anything,survival.

[In Exile]

Sisterofshane wrote...
Then why not just tell us that?  Why look at us with disgust and disdain, speak to us with arrogance in their voice, and then only be selective in which species they want to "ascend"?  They look at us as "lesser" beings, not unfortunate, but weak - an accident.  Who are they to judge us "worthy" of such a higher existence?  Shouldn't they then wish it for all sentient creatures, not just a select few?  Even then, should it not be a future shared amongst ALL members of the species?  Why leave some behind, for no apparent reason but to discard them like one does a tool?  There is much to suggest within the game that the Reapers obviously feel superior to us, but nothing to suggest that we will actually prefer their existence of our own volition.

It may well be that their existence is superior, they see themselves as superior - arrogance being a trait of the species that tend to get ascended - and they will only share their toys with who they like. 

And why be disappointed?  Well, the obvious answer is because it would not be the ending I would want to pay for.

What do you mean? Even if that was what the reapers wanted, I'm pretty sure the game won't just end with us getting reaped. At best, it'd be an alternate ending like Shep dying in ME2. 

That there is some alterior motive to the Reapers that we could not guess would be alright, IMO, but I don't like the idea that it happens just because their way of living is judged to be superior.

That's... pretty much the reason for almost every conflict we have as a species, as humans. That a game would parallel this doesn't seem bad. 

[Medhia Nox]

@Humanoid_Typhoon: What use is the mind of Sun Tzu!? He is but another illogical fool!

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 15 août 2011 - 07:50 .

[goofyomnivore]

When I make my arguments though I try to insert myself into the universe. From that perspective there is really no hope of victory. Everything is stacked against us.

I would argue we have the best chance of any cycle. For example, we control the Citadel during their initial invasion that is a huge advantage for us. We have crap odds, I agree, but we have significantly better odds than expected. This is a unique circumstance that shows more promise and hope than anything before and most certainly after if we fail.

edit: Medhia beat me to it.

Modifié par strive, 15 août 2011 - 07:52 .

[In Exile]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
To an eternal existence, free of many (but not all) weaknesses. To perhaps the peak of sentient existence, with the ability to imposing our will on nature itself. In other words, almost godhood. Perfect equality even (unless Reapers have a hierarchy).  

I had a prof who argued that being god = no sapience/sentience, because that level of intelligence could accurately perceive the universe without heuristics (i.e. no need to think, because it could see independent particles).

All that is still more or less speculation, and I am hoping that ME3 will shed more light on this. Then I will make up my mind fully. If Reapers still have something of their original species and truly are independent nations in the real meaning of the word, I'd find it appealing to some extent.

For me, it always comes down to existence. If as individuals we don't get to exist, and our loved ones don't get to exist... then there's no appeal.

[Medhia Nox]

@In Exile: I would agree with your professor.

[In Exile]

Saphra Deden wrote...
When I make my arguments though I try to insert myself into the universe. From that perspective there is really no hope of victory. Everything is stacked against us.

You mean, the Saren PoV?