3618 réponses à ce sujet

[ThePwener]

SandTrout wrote...

For the discussions of Human Rights in the context of Mass Effect, Cerberus's goal is to first and foremost ensure 1 critical Human Right which supercedes all others: The right of survival. Human Rights cannot exist without humans, and we cannot control any rights if we are subservient to an alien power.

The morally questionable part is the fact that Cerberus violates the rights of individuals on a limited scale in order to protect the rights of the species as a whole. This is not an idea that I agree with, but I do understand it.

I would not trust TIM if he were to take a position of overt power, but in the face of being eradicated by an alien power, almost anything can be theoretically justified. Survival trumps all other priorities.

You are completaly correct. I don't want Humanity to become the new Volus.

[Someone With Mass]

ThePwener wrote...
When we didn't and it was Humanity who saved the Citadel (and maybe the council too.... I didn't). That just shows how incompetent they are in handling galactic matters and should be dethroned.

If you disagree then you're a traitor to you're own species.

Oh, let me guess. Humanity has a "rightful place" or some utterly delusional horse**** like that.

With idiots like that, I don't want to be of the same species as them.

By the way, the Council isn't incompetent just because it can't handle a matter like calling in reinforcements through a closed relay.

[alperez]

legion999 wrote...


Well it seems I have been a fool then.

Nope, misinformed which considering the amount of info 2 mass effect games have is understandable.

[ThePwener]

Saaziel wrote...

HomelessGal wrote...

ThePwener wrote...
If you disagree then you're a traitor to you're own species.

I love when people try this kind of tactic..

Yeah, It baffles me as well... Does it even work ?

It was a damn joke people, I never expected anyone to take it seriously.

[Seboist]

Davie McG wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

Seboist wrote...


Cerberus works for human rights,interests and survival. They only look bad to hypocrite paragons who enjoy playing space gestapo for a an alien racial caste clique while deluding themselves into thinking they have the moral high ground.

The last two I can't argue with, but seriously? Cerberus? For human rights? Torturing Paul Greyson and injecting children with with illegal drugs, to me at least, doesn't sound like the actions of a group that stands up for human rights. Torture is a major human rights violation, no matter what your reason for doing it is.

Cerberus is an organisation that is all about the advancement of human interests and domination at any cost. Not about maintaining peoples human rights.

Human dominance ensures our rights against hostile alien forces.

Except for the human right to live without fear of torture, or the human right to live without fear of kidnap, or murder.

Human dominance may stop the Batarians, or anyone else, from enslaving us but they themselves don't seem to mind violating our human rights so long as it benefits them. Therefore they are not a pro human rights group, just an anti-alien dominance group (or pro human dominance if you want to look it that way).

Cerberus doesn't kidnap random people on the street for no reason. That's shameless slander.

[Kaiser Shepard]

legion999 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Now that we're talking about the Council, it might be a good moment to mention that Walters has confirmed the appearance of the new one in ME3.

By new one do you mean human dominated.

Hopefully that one as well, although I wouldn't be surprised if it was just the new alien one.

[ThePwener]

Someone With Mass wrote...

ThePwener wrote...
When we didn't and it was Humanity who saved the Citadel (and maybe the council too.... I didn't). That just shows how incompetent they are in handling galactic matters and should be dethroned.

If you disagree then you're a traitor to you're own species.

Oh, let me guess. Humanity has a "rightful place" or some utterly delusional horse**** like that.

With idiots like that, I don't want to be of the same species as them.

By the way, the Council isn't incompetent just because it can't handle a matter like calling in reinforcements through a closed relay.

You mean the same closed relay 5th Fleet came through? Right.

[Someone With Mass]

legion999 wrote...
Eh yes we did. We kicked thier asses off Shanxi then the council intervined.
The fact that we have done things other races can do shows we can handle ourselves.

Yeah, before the turians were going to start a full scale war with humanity. The humans had luck. Nothing else.

[legion999]

alperez wrote...

legion999 wrote...


Well it seems I have been a fool then.

Nope, misinformed which considering the amount of info 2 mass effect games have is understandable.

That and it being 1am over here may have caused my ignor/arrogance.

Modifié par legion999, 16 août 2011 - 12:31 .

[alperez]

ThePwener wrote...

It was a damn joke people, I never expected anyone to take it seriously.

On an internet forum where people take offense at the slighest remark and take practically everything someone says as a direct affront to them personally, maybe you were being just a tad naive lol.

[ThePwener]

Seboist wrote...

Cerberus doesn't kidnap random people on the street for no reason. That's shameless slander.

They kinda do. Jackeline was one.

[ThePwener]

alperez wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

It was a damn joke people, I never expected anyone to take it seriously.

On an internet forum where people take offense at the slighest remark and take practically everything someone says as a direct affront to them personally, maybe you were being just a tad naive lol.

Yeah, gotta love the interwebs....

[Someone With Mass]

ThePwener wrote...
You mean the same closed relay 5th Fleet came through? Right.

Yes. It was closed until Shepard opened it witht the data file Vigil gave him and then the Arcturus fleet moved in.

Good luck getting anything through that thing when it's closed.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Seboist wrote...

Cerberus doesn't kidnap random people on the street for no reason. That's shameless slander.

You're right. They buy them from Batarian slavers. Saves that messy "kidnapper" image.

[ThePwener]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, before the turians were going to start a full scale war with humanity. The humans had luck. Nothing else.

Shows how evil the Turians really are with being cool on attacking a new alien race and then going to war with them when they fight back. That doesn't help your case.

[legion999]

Someone With Mass wrote...

legion999 wrote...
Eh yes we did. We kicked thier asses off Shanxi then the council intervined.
The fact that we have done things other races can do shows we can handle ourselves.

Yeah, before the turians were going to start a full scale war with humanity. The humans had luck. Nothing else.

Luck? Yeah the turian garrison just got hit by an asteroid or something. The fact remains though that humans defeated the turians, something that no race has done for centuries.

[Davie McG]

SandTrout wrote...

For the discussions of Human Rights in the context of Mass Effect, Cerberus's goal is to first and foremost ensure 1 critical Human Right which supercedes all others: The right of survival. Human Rights cannot exist without humans, and we cannot control any rights if we are subservient to an alien power.

The morally questionable part is the fact that Cerberus violates the rights of individuals on a limited scale in order to protect the rights of the species as a whole. This is not an idea that I agree with, but I do understand it.

I would not trust TIM if he were to take a position of overt power, but in the face of being eradicated by an alien power, almost anything can be theoretically justified. Survival trumps all other priorities.

I agree with you, they are all about making humanity No.1. If that means a few peoples human rights must be violated then they see that as fair enough. I was just saying it would be inaccurate to call them pro human rights. Definently pro human though.

I think people who are pro Cerberus will be a little disappointed with ME3 considering they are the enemy. As far as everything that happened in ME2 goes it wouldn't be irrational to remain with Cerberus if their Shepard feels betrayed by the Alliance. I guess it's unfortunate they didn't give us the opertunity to finish the game as Cerberus hero, it is supposed to be about choice after all.

[SandTrout]

Someone With Mass wrote...

ThePwener wrote...
You mean the same closed relay 5th Fleet came through? Right.

Yes. It was closed until Shepard opened it witht the data file Vigil gave him and then the Arcturus fleet moved in.

Good luck getting anything through that thing when it's closed.

You have a point that the Relay was closed, but the only thing that saved them at all was the fact that Shepard violated orders in order to persue Saren.

[ThePwener]

Someone With Mass wrote...

ThePwener wrote...
You mean the same closed relay 5th Fleet came through? Right.

Yes. It was closed until Shepard opened it witht the data file Vigil gave him and then the Arcturus fleet moved in.

Good luck getting anything through that thing when it's closed.

Oh yeah. I haven't played ME1 in 2 years so bear with me.

They're still incompetent though. We warm them of the attack and they still ground us and almost doomed the galaxy. The Normandy had stealth systems. That's incompetence at it's finest.

[Zulu_DFA]

Davie McG wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

Torture is a major human rights violation, no matter what your reason for doing it is.

First, tell that to Guantanamo inmates.

Second, it's the 22nd century, and pain is officially an illusion.

So yeah, human rights have evolved, adapting to the environment (you know, aliens, hostile genocidal AIs, stuff like that). Law of nature.

It doesn't matter who you are. If your human, you have certain human rights. Doesn't matter if your a pedophile or a murderer or a mass murderer or Osama Bin Laden or the little old lady down the street, if your human you have the right to be free of torture. 

Besides, it's a well known fact that torture is a sh¡t means of extracting reliable information, people will admit to anything under torture whether they did it or not. If it worked every police department in the world would use it.

Anyway, I refuse to be pulled into a debate about real world politics, this is a Mass Effect forum. 

Man, real freedom is only in your mind. If you're afraid of torture, you'll never be free. 'Cause, you know, when a serial killer catches you in a dark alley, he doesn't give a damn about what you call "human rights".

[Saaziel]

ThePwener wrote...

Saaziel wrote...

HomelessGal wrote...

ThePwener wrote...
If you disagree then you're a traitor to you're own species.

I love when people try this kind of tactic..

Yeah, It baffles me as well... Does it even work ?

It was a damn joke people, I never expected anyone to take it seriously.

Seeing how its hard to convey the emotional tone of a sentence over the internet ; Its would be wise , for future reference, to make it explicitly clear with annotations. Unless you're interested in not being taken seriously when needed and being progressively trivialized as crazy.

Modifié par Saaziel, 16 août 2011 - 12:33 .

[Davie McG]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

Torture is a major human rights violation, no matter what your reason for doing it is.

First, tell that to Guantanamo inmates.

Second, it's the 22nd century, and pain is officially an illusion.

So yeah, human rights have evolved, adapting to the environment (you know, aliens, hostile genocidal AIs, stuff like that). Law of nature.

It doesn't matter who you are. If your human, you have certain human rights. Doesn't matter if your a pedophile or a murderer or a mass murderer or Osama Bin Laden or the little old lady down the street, if your human you have the right to be free of torture. 

Besides, it's a well known fact that torture is a sh¡t means of extracting reliable information, people will admit to anything under torture whether they did it or not. If it worked every police department in the world would use it.

Anyway, I refuse to be pulled into a debate about real world politics, this is a Mass Effect forum. 

Man, real freedom is only in your mind. If you're afraid of torture, you'll never be free. 'Cause, you know, when a serial killer catches you in a dark alley, he doesn't give a damn about what you call "human rights".

That's why being a serial killer is illegal.

Edit: I think you'd enjoy being a Drell. They're all about the mind/body seperation thing.

Modifié par Davie McG, 16 août 2011 - 12:41 .

[ThePwener]

Davie McG wrote...

That's why being a serial killer is illegal.

You don't say.....

[Someone With Mass]

ThePwener wrote...

Shows how evil the Turians really are with being cool on attacking a new alien race and then going to war with them when they fight back. That doesn't help your case.

Maybe they should've given the rachni a chance to attack them some more too.

Humanity was stupid enough to open up a relay they had no idea of where it was going or what was on the other side. That's why the turians attacked.

Stupidity is outdoing "evil" by quite a lot.