3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Arijharn]

I'm back... did I miss anything? I've read some pages here and there, seems Alperez and Lotion have taken the time out to write each other a couple of chapters worth of text equal to War & Peace every so often... has this 'debate' moved on or anything?

Modifié par Arijharn, 16 août 2011 - 01:49 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

ThePwener wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Where would humanity be if they would have been able to skip the current cycle,and just used the headstart the Protheans gave us for the next one,50k years of advancing,we would become super beings.

And oblivious of the Reapers and destroyed by them.

We would have an empire,and probably found ilos...

[Golden Owl]

ThePwener wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Because you know what? You don't have to open up every single relay there is.

Because of fear born of fear? Are you kidding me? I'll open as many as I damn like. There is no way to know what is on the other side, so we'll just stay here and rot away instead of taking risks and advancing out species.

Aweasome.

??...I haven't read the books, so maybe there's something I'm missing.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Arijharn wrote...

I'm back... did I miss anything? I've read some pages here and there, seems Alperez and Lotion have taken the time out to write each other a couple of chapters worth of text equal to War & Peace every so often... has this 'debate' moved on or anything?

We have for the most part moved away from the CB decision and moved on to Humanity activating the relays,and the galactic community's reasoning for not exploring them.


Also the deck of players has been shuffled,and you will now notice new allegiances.
 

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 16 août 2011 - 01:53 .

[SandTrout]

@Arijharn,

Yes, actually, were're discussing the virtues (or lack thereof) of the Citadel's policy of not activating a Relay until the other side is mapped.

[ThePwener]

Davie McG wrote...

So it's possible for both the Protheans and the reapers or who ever made them but not for us?

Evolution has levels. A baby can't walk before going on all four. It can't speak without being taught. here are levels and limits. Humanity has beein in space for little over a century and a half.

The protheans already had controlled most of known space before they found out how Relays work.

[Someone With Mass]

SandTrout wrote...
Today's America is not expanding into anything, let alone anything unknown. The European explorers of the 1500's and 1600's were. The indigenous Americans were not prepared to deal with expansionist powers like the Europeans, but refusing to cross the Atlantic from their side did not help at all. In fact, the Europeans managed to conquer both continents.

That's still different from traveling to uncharted planets and possibly make contact with entire races that wants you dead. The difference might only be in numbers, but still.

[Davie McG]

SandTrout wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

SandTrout wrote...
Read the history of the Americas and say that again with a streight face.

I can just look at today's America and say that with a straight face.

Today's America is not expanding into anything, let alone anything unknown. The European explorers of the 1500's and 1600's were. The indigenous Americans were not prepared to deal with expansionist powers like the Europeans, but refusing to cross the Atlantic from their side did not help at all. In fact, the Europeans managed to conquer both continents regardless of the fact that the Americas had been isolated up until that point.

To be fair the Americans of the 15th and 16th centuries didn't have the technology to cross the atlantic, I could be wrong but I think we had won by the 17th century.

[ThePwener]

Golden Owl wrote...

??...I haven't read the books, so maybe there's something I'm missing.

You don't need a book to know you can't live without resources. Humanity is an ever expanding race. Every year more and more people fill the planet. We would have had to escape sol at some point.

Modifié par ThePwener, 16 août 2011 - 01:54 .

[Someone With Mass]

ThePwener wrote...
The protheans already had controlled most of known space before they found out how Relays work.

I don't think it took them only about three hundred years to expand their empire throughout the galaxy.

[ThePwener]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Where would humanity be if they would have been able to skip the current cycle,and just used the headstart the Protheans gave us for the next one,50k years of advancing,we would become super beings.

And oblivious of the Reapers and destroyed by them.

We would have an empire,and probably found ilos...

You're assuming we would have. The only reason we found Illos was because of the Rachni Queen. The relay was lost remember.

[ThePwener]

Someone With Mass wrote...

ThePwener wrote...
The protheans already had controlled most of known space before they found out how Relays work.

I don't think it took them only about three hundred years to expand their empire throughout the galaxy.

Who said that? We don't know anything about them, let alone the time it took them to expand from one system.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

ThePwener wrote...

Well you fit the stereotype of dumb internet troll.

It took the Protheans 50,000 years + a secret base in Illos to figure out how they worked.

Great logic you have. Are you sure you've played ME? I doubt it.

I don't think the Protheans ruled the galaxy for 50,000 yrs. 50,000 yrs prior the Reapers came through and cleared the way for them. I'd say probably 1000 yrs. 7000 yrs prior they probably discovered the wheel.

So I'd say probably 100 yrs of research to build a mass relay on the outside. Probably less than that.

The thing is humans could have disassembled it but still not understood what made it work. Then comes putting it back together and getting it to work. And then even if we were to figure it out and build our own, we would have to have another somewhere to connect with, which would have meant hauling another elsewhere with a ship with FTL. Eventually we would have stepped on someone's toes.

Still I think after trying to figure out how it worked, someone would have said, "well let's fire it up and see what it does." And there you go. Same mess. That is human nature.

[xXljoshlXx]

Someone With Mass wrote...

SandTrout wrote...
Today's America is not expanding into anything, let alone anything unknown. The European explorers of the 1500's and 1600's were. The indigenous Americans were not prepared to deal with expansionist powers like the Europeans, but refusing to cross the Atlantic from their side did not help at all. In fact, the Europeans managed to conquer both continents.

That's still different from traveling to uncharted planets and possibly make contact with entire races that wants you dead. The difference might only be in numbers, but still.

Replace planets with continent  and race to well race...

[SandTrout]

Someone With Mass wrote...

That's still different from traveling to uncharted planets and possibly make contact with entire races that wants you dead. The difference might only be in numbers, but still.

It's not all that different, and those races don't necessarily want us dead. Letting them find us, instead of the other way around, though, is sacrificing strategic initiative (if necessary) for no real gain.

I personally don't see why we wouldn't have a team on standby to shut down and disable certain key relays such as Charon so that we might be able to insulate ourselves from potential conquest if we ever did run into a Rachni equivalent.

That provides us the best of both worlds, I figure. We can continue expanding our resource base, and if we make contatct with a species that we cannot either defeat or negotiate with, just sabotage our border relays so that we can minimize territory loss and actually prepare for a known vs an unknown.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

ThePwener wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

For once,saphra actually has a point,your example of iPads in the 1920s is a bit different,protheans were well into being intersteller,the technological jump wouldn't have been as huge as iPad in the 1920s.they would still no doubt be jumping an entire or maybe even 2 generations of tech,but still,they did it.

From your logic....

This pistol

*Mauser*

Is the same as this one

*Desert Eagle*

That was absolutely not what I meant, how about 1911 and a glock17 will be the protheans and the relays,and XM8 and a spear will be the iPad in the 1920s, the Glock is more sophisticated and advanced,but it still has the basic concept of the 1911(like nearly every semi-auto handgun)

the iPad you are giving is essentially handing a Ming dynasty warrior an XM8,the concept for such a thing doesn't exist and would be considred magic.

[SandTrout]

Davie McG wrote...

To be fair the Americans of the 15th and 16th centuries didn't have the technology to cross the atlantic, I could be wrong but I think we had won by the 17th century.

Really besides the point. Isolation by means of lack of exploration did not protect them.

[ThePwener]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

the iPad you are giving is essentially handing a Ming dynasty warrior an XM8,the concept for such a thing doesn't exist and would be considred magic.

See, you're smart, you got it.



Just because you have one doesn't me we can replicate the technology. That means we know how to build the componets that compose such a device. We don't.

Modifié par ThePwener, 16 août 2011 - 02:02 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Hey there, kiddos. Did anything noteworthy happen in the hour I was gone?

[SandTrout]

@Humanoid_Typhoon,

To clarify a technical detail, a Glock is actually significantly simpler than a 1911, though I suppose calling it more advanced is about right.

[Golden Owl]

ThePwener wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

??...I haven't read the books, so maybe there's something I'm missing.

You don't need a book to know you can't live without resources. Humanity is an ever expanding race. Every year more and more people fill the planet. We would have had to escape sol at some point.

I can't respond without being a sarcastic sh*t to humanity in general....I think I will shut my trap now......

[Saaziel]

Someone With Mass wrote...


That's still different from traveling to uncharted planets and possibly make contact with entire races that wants you dead. The difference might only be in numbers, but still.

I'd doubt that human fear , paranoia & greed would be universal traits.

That is to say, from a realistic point of view; There is more than enough (Stuff) in space for everyone with the most basic form of "terra-forming". At a certain technological point (One we can assume would be necessary to study the relays) such emotional responses would gradually vanish. So even if alien life forms would mimic , by some incredibly absurd coincidence , human psychology in any way ; Its unlikely they'd be hostile.

In-game its an other issue all together.

Modifié par Saaziel, 16 août 2011 - 02:32 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

ThePwener wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

That was absolutely not what I meant, how about 1911 and a glock17 will be the protheans and the relays,and XM8 and a spear will be the iPad in the 1920s, the Glock is more sophisticated and advanced,but it still has the basic concept of the 1911(like nearly every semi-auto handgun)

the iPad you are giving is essentially handing a Ming dynasty warrior an XM8,the concept for such a thing doesn't exist and would be considred magic.

See, you're smart, you got it.

So what I'm saying is you could give that glock to someone in 1911,and he wouldn't fully understand it immediately,but after using for a while he would understand and be able to duplicate it.(save for the polymers)

[Davie McG]

ThePwener wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

So it's possible for both the Protheans and the reapers or who ever made them but not for us?

Evolution has levels. A baby can't walk before going on all four. It can't speak without being taught. here are levels and limits. Humanity has beein in space for little over a century and a half.

The protheans already had controlled most of known space before they found out how Relays work.

While it's true they had conquered most of the galaxy, and been around longer than us, I doubt the time between them bulding their empire and reverse engineering the relays was long enough for them to have evolved as a species. That takes tens of thousands of years, and if we use this cycle as a measurement of how long it takes organics to again find the relays that would only give them only two thousand year in which to evolve again.

I'll concede that we don't know how long into their own cycle they found the relays so the comparison to the asari finding the relay network is weak; It's still highly likely they didn't have enough time to evolve as a species. It's highly likely the Protheans that discovered the relays were still the same species of Prothean that reverse engineered the relays.