3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Shepard]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

One glaring omission from the game was the third choice. Put them both down. Harsh? Yes. Viable option? Very much so. Archer continuing with these experiments is almost a given. David being traumatized as much as he has been...would be mercy to end his suffering.

Agreed, and I would've done the same, but when you think about Overlord in a metagaming sense, it all becomes clear: Bioware was simply explaining (justifying?) Cerberus suddenly gaining control of a legion of geth in ME3. In the end, it seems the same is sadly also true about the Collector Base decision.

laecraft wrote...

I can levitate the refrigerators!

You think things... and they happen?

[Omega4RelayResident]

So wait... what are you saying now about the CB Kaiser?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

So wait... what are you saying now about the CB Kaiser?

We are done with the CB decision, the discussion is now about Project Overlord

[Kaiser Shepard]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

So wait... what are you saying now about the CB Kaiser?

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

alperez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Then again, when looking at Overlord nowadays it is obvious that they were already planning to have Cerberus controlling an unspecified amount of geth troops in ME3, and that the DLC itself was only there to 'justify' that from an in-universe perspective.

Sorry for jumping in, but wanted to comment on this part.

I've always thought the very same thing regarding the CB also, considering Cerberus get their hands on the base whether you destroy it or not, to me it only enforces my position that the choice in destroying the base was about Cerberus and not the base itself.

True, as I've said this myself in the past as well.

Now back to Overlord. 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

You'd think there would be a bit more buzz for overlord,thread has slowed down a bit...

[Copyright Theft]

Or people read the first page and think "wait, this is talking about the CB not Overlord" and then leave. Maybe the OP needs updating with what's currently being discussed as well.

[Someone With Mass]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

You'd think there would be a bit more buzz for overlord,thread has slowed down a bit...

No, I just think Overlord is stupid storywise.

[PoSpoon]

Eh, Ive been reading this thread for a while. I dont really have anything to say about overlord. Just that Ive done the renegade choice on a few paragons, before realizing that this project would hurt my potential geth allies given that its cerberus. I couldnt really see TIM using this just as a way to talk to the geth, when he could control them.
But then again, do all geth have religious impulses? Was it just heretics? Which type of geth was being used in the experiment?

[Omega4RelayResident]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

So wait... what are you saying now about the CB Kaiser?

We are done with the CB decision, the discussion is now about Project Overlord

I already put my 2 cents in on Overlord... I was asking for clarification to the refrence there... good job catching up to the fact that I needed refrence there.... not that I was starting up the CB convo again.... and I am not going to be searching through pages upon pages of thread to get what he was saying.

Thanks for the attitude there though...... TOTALLY NEEDED IT

[Reever]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

 Note how I said "they were the only ones to specifically choose to follow Sovereign" 

A question for those who chose the the Paragon decision in Overlord: what aspect of the project made you come to the conclusion that the plug needed to be pulled, the means that is forcing another human to 'merge' with a VI or the ends that is dominating other sentients/sapients?

Good question!
It really depends on the Shep and the intended playthrough (yeah, I´m metagaming so I don´t have to make the same decisions all over again )...
Some times it´s just because it´s Cerberus (that means their experiments are inhumane etc.), sometimes it´s because "there has to be a better way" (yeah, I know... ) and sometimes my Shep just thinks it isn´t necessary because we have Legion!

Personally, I think the latter of the issues you presented is the more essential one. Because we have seen what the Geth as a whole ( or better said: their individual platfroms, like Legion) are able to do. They still evolve, and only because they aren´t organics, it doesn´t mean we should do what the Reapers do to us

But as I said, depends on how pragmatic/idealistic/cerberus-hating I have my Shep be!

[Omega4RelayResident]

Nothing.... I had Legion with me during that mission and he said nothing either.... just that David can Communicate with the Geth in their own language.

[khordlambert]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Nothing.... I had Legion with me during that mission and he said nothing either.... just that David can Communicate with the Geth in their own language.

And all it cost was the lives of nearly an entire Cerberus reaserch team, nearly unleashing a galaxy wide skynet, and an autistic man's sanity! Another sucessful Cerberus operation!

Modifié par khordlambert, 01 septembre 2011 - 10:25 .

[alperez]

Personally with overlord i felt they tried to show us things to help us understand cerberus and the lengths they were willing to go to more than anything else, the idea that they may be setting things up so cerberus could control geth in me3 as Kaiser suggests never really entered into how i looked at the mission itself.

It was to me more about cerberus as an organisation and to show not just the goals they have but the length they go to in order to achieve those goals.

People here always question what TIM and cerberus mean by human domination and try to explain it away as domination doesn't mean subjugation.

Overlord shows that this isn't entirely true imo, TIM's view of domination is shown here pretty clearly, yes he argues that he's doing everything he does for the best possible reason, but as i've said countless times if you believe the words coming from TIM's mouth then you deserve everything you get.

So with overlord we're shown not just the ends that TIM seeks but a clear example that there is no morality conflict in anything TIM does, we could argue he's amoral or immoral but to me its here where TIM and i part ways completely.

Whatever justification TIM uses to do the things he does or whatever claims made on cerberus behalf about rogue cells or TIM not knowing about the actions his operatives take, i find it hard to believe that after overlord TIM isn't fully aware of every single aspect of cerberus research.

With that in mind, then handing him a base at the end of me2 becomes even less of an option.

[Izhalezan]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Nothing.... I had Legion with me during that mission and he said nothing either.... just that David can Communicate with the Geth in their own language.

Yeah, i found it a little odd that Legion added nothing to Overlord but Archer going "Hes not gonna be mad, is he bro?"

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Izhalezan wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Nothing.... I had Legion with me during that mission and he said nothing either.... just that David can Communicate with the Geth in their own language.

Yeah, i found it a little odd that Legion added nothing to Overlord but Archer going "Hes not gonna be mad, is he bro?"

I found it odd not hearing anything for 20 minutes....

[Seboist]

Izhalezan wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Nothing.... I had Legion with me during that mission and he said nothing either.... just that David can Communicate with the Geth in their own language.

Yeah, i found it a little odd that Legion added nothing to Overlord but Archer going "Hes not gonna be mad, is he bro?"

That's just part of the broader issue of squadmates not having voiced dialogue in the DLCs.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Seboist wrote...

That's just part of the broader issue of squadmates not having voiced dialogue in the DLCs.

Perhaps we can fix that problem by complaining about ME3 as vocal as people did with DA2, regardless of whether the game is bad or not.

[Golden Owl]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Okay I understand why people answer the way they do and make choices in the game the way they do. Its only a game.

But put your self honestly in Shepard's shoes... pretend for one second you actually ran into this. Would you allow Archer to keep doing this to David? Think of it as a RL scenario.

RL?....Then my Shep would have shot Gavin Archer....put him out of his brothers misery.

[Golden Owl]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

 Note how I said "they were the only ones to specifically choose to follow Sovereign" 

A question for those who chose the the Paragon decision in Overlord: what aspect of the project made you come to the conclusion that the plug needed to be pulled, the means that is forcing another human to 'merge' with a VI or the ends that is dominating other sentients/sapients?

The shere cruelty and abuse of an autistic man floored me...I hadn't cried at all during any ME scenes, but I lost it on that one...was frozen in shock the first time I saw it....surely there must have been a better way than the extreme cruelty and abuse he was going through...you did see the way he was trussed up right?...the arms, the eyes, his begging for quiet?....I have no problem with encouraging him to communicate with the Geth and looking for a solution to the Geth problem...but that was just NO!...That was a whole new level of sickness.

 

Oh i was so angry  being one of the four brothers  I was like "How can you do that your Brother"    but once I calmed down some  and Kudos to Archer voice actor  -  Archer I believe regretted what he did   and  him living with  guilt  its more punishment than anything that I can inflict on him.   David and  in some ways Archer are nothing more than victims of TIM and the list is getting  rather long.   TIM  seems to get people around him that he knows in the end will  cave to his pressure for resaults and not push back..  Does that absolve Archer  in the words of Jamie Foxx  in Law Abiding Citizen -  **** NO.     My Shepard  shut overlord down - sent  TIM and nice  email saying **** you and one day is he going to go a bridge far and I'm going to be there to nail his ass to wall. 
 

And again, well spoken nitefrye....spot on.

[JGDD]

Golden Owl wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Okay I understand why people answer the way they do and make choices in the game the way they do. Its only a game.

But put your self honestly in Shepard's shoes... pretend for one second you actually ran into this. Would you allow Archer to keep doing this to David? Think of it as a RL scenario.

RL?....Then my Shep would have shot Gavin Archer....put him out of his brothers misery.

The question was posed for you. Not Shep. Just in the same role. Murdering the doc, no matter how right it seems, is not the real world answer...at least for most well adjusted individuals.

[Golden Owl]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Remember what you said to TIM when you decided to blow up the CB?

"I wont let the Reaper threat compromise who I am"

I want to save as many people in the Galaxy as I can... but I wont become a monster to do it.

Exactly.

[Kaiser Shepard]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Murdering the doc, no matter how right it seems, is not the real world answer...at least for most well adjusted individuals.

Just what a well indoctrinated sheep would say.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 02 septembre 2011 - 02:41 .

[JGDD]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Okay I understand why people answer the way they do and make choices in the game the way they do. Its only a game.

But put your self honestly in Shepard's shoes... pretend for one second you actually ran into this. Would you allow Archer to keep doing this to David? Think of it as a RL scenario.

RL?....Then my Shep would have shot Gavin Archer....put him out of his brothers misery.

The question was posed for you. Not Shep. Just in the same role. Murdering the doc, no matter how right it seems, is not the real world answer...at least for most well adjusted individuals.

Just what a well indoctrinated sheep would say.

Perhaps. But I can't see myself in a RL situation as presented and still feel justified in capping him. I won't lie and say the thought never occured to me, but there are bigger issues I need to deal with. The authorities or whoever can deal with him.