3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Vahir]

Had I not went throught the derelict Reaper, I would have gladly saved it. But after that you realize that "Hey, these Reapers are DANGEROUS!". Any risk of people getting indoctrinated is not worth taking, it bolsteers the enemy, weakens us, and takes up ressources to clear the problem. You had no idea what the hell was in that base- best to destroy it to be on the safe side.

[Omega4RelayResident]

SpiffySquee wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Deliberately trying to rob your own people of an advantage is treason.

Deliberately allowing one of your own people to suffer cruel and unusual punishment can also be considered treason:?

Care to elaborate on how you get treasonous ties from the given scenario?

Trea·son
noun
1. the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2. a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

Unless the purpose of an alliance solider has changed drastically, part of their duty is to protect their own people. For example:

I am an American Soldier.I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.

First three lines of the American soldier's creed. By leaving David there in the hands of brutal and inhuman treatment you are betraying the trust and confidence placed by civilians upon soldiers. Thus, it fits the third meaning of the word Treason.

I have to ask you this then... I have the utmost respect for the people in the Armed Services.... personally I would love to lead a bunch of renegades and blow up Blackwater and Haliburton for hiring Mercenary Personel. Those a**holes get paid more than the people in the Armed Services and do pretty much the same thing. But their loyalty is only to their next paycheck.

My question for you is what if a superior officer gave you an order to leave Project overlord as is. What would you do then? Dont think its a shmuck Liutenant (which would probably get a court martial for this order) that gave this order.... I mean a General or an Admiral.... someone high up in the chain of command.

I mean there is evidence of the MK-Ultra program run by the CIA... so twisted **** has happened in our history before.
An order is an order.... this is where the line may blur for some people.

Its a dificult subject to talk about in general when applied to "What if it was you making the decision"

[Kaiser Shepard]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

111987 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

That's fine and dandy if you are an Alliance soldier. In the given scenario, as I asked about, you are not an Alliance soldier. You were never reinstated as one even after talking to Anderson. Treason, in this specific case, is a non-issue.

If it makes you feel any better, this particular case, at best, is felonious in nature. And even that can be a stretch if the experiment was taking place outside of the Citadel/Alliance borders. It's nothing more than a pure emotional decision if you stick to what is presented to you in-game.

Not only that but if Shepard is a Spectre then s/he answers to the Council not the Alliance.

Wouldn't handing over David to Cerberus, thus giving them a means of communicating/controlling the Geth, be an act of treason against the Council, oh which humanity is a part?

Council said working with Cerberus was treason by itself,can't imagine giving them a potential superweapon would be any less treasonous

Well then, I suppose it's a good thing the Council is committing treason against its own people as well.

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

My question for you is what if a superior officer gave you an order to leave Project overlord as is. What would you do then? Dont think its a shmuck Liutenant (which would probably get a court martial for this order) that gave this order.... I mean a General or an Admiral.... someone high up in the chain of command.

Assuming things haven't escalated to the extent they did in the DLC, I would have taken it upon myself to grant the subject mercy. That probably means killing him, though.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 03 septembre 2011 - 01:59 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

What?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Ignoring a threat that may very well prove to be the end of life as we know it. Way to go, Council.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 03 septembre 2011 - 02:19 .

[111987]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Ignoring a threat that may very well prove to be the end of life as we know it. Way to go, Council.

There's actually no solid proof of Shepard's story

[Kaiser Shepard]

111987 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Ignoring a threat that may very well prove to be the end of life as we know it. Way to go, Council.

There's actually no solid proof of Shepard's story

Sure, nothing solid but Shepard's state of record so far. The least those incompetent idiots could do is take some precautions in case the "geth" come back with more of the "flagships", whilst telling Shepard they do believe him.

[Omega4RelayResident]

If a big purple skinned dude came to your neighborhood.... started to tear the place up... everyone tried to stop him but it seemed no one could hurt him.... then the cops show up and unload half the Ammo they had in storage in the police station.... and finally the purple skinned man died

YOURE TELLING ME THAT YOU WOULDNT SUSPECT SOMETHING WAS FISHY?

You: "Ummm... that was incredible was he a mutant or an alien?"

Cop: "Nah just a disgruntled Microsoft employee."

You can at that point believe the cop, OR asking to please stop treating you like an idiot.

I like the ladder.

NO PROOF MY A**... COMMON F****** SENSE IS A GREAT PLACE TO START

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 03 septembre 2011 - 03:01 .

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

If a big purple skinned dude came to your neighborhood.... started to tear the place up... everyone tried to stop him but it seemed no one could hurt him.... then the cops show up and unload half the Ammo they had in storage in the police station.... and finally the purple skinned man died

YOURE TELLING ME THAT YOU WOULDNT SUSPECT SOMETHING WAS FISHY?

You: "Ummm... that was incredible was he a mutant or an alien?"

Cop: "Nah just a disgruntled Microsoft employee."

You can at that point believe the cop, OR asking to please stop treating you like an idiot.

I like the ladder.

NO PROOF MY A**

That example has almost no relation to the situation in Mass Effect...

Prove Sovereign wasn't a Geth ship.

[Kaiser Shepard]

111987 wrote...

That example has almost no relation to the situation in Mass Effect...

Prove Sovereign wasn't a Geth ship.

Even if you wouldn't believe Shepard's claims of Reapers, but simply dismiss it as a huge geth flagship... that doesn't solve the problem of the apparently hostile synthetic race being able to build said ships.

[JonnyOwen]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

111987 wrote...

That example has almost no relation to the situation in Mass Effect...

Prove Sovereign wasn't a Geth ship.

Even if you wouldn't believe Shepard's claims of Reapers, but simply dismiss it as a huge geth flagship... that doesn't solve the problem of the apparently hostile synthetic race being able to build said ships.

The Council believes that the Geth that attacked the Citadel are more advanced. The Salarian Councillar says that if you bring Legion to see the Council.

[111987]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

111987 wrote...

That example has almost no relation to the situation in Mass Effect...

Prove Sovereign wasn't a Geth ship.

Even if you wouldn't believe Shepard's claims of Reapers, but simply dismiss it as a huge geth flagship... that doesn't solve the problem of the apparently hostile synthetic race being able to build said ships.

Very true, but as Anderson says, the Heretic Geth are barely a threat anymore; "they aren't the bogeyman they used to be". The Council would just assume that the Geth lost it all during the Battle of the Citadel and were no longer a concern.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

JonnyOwen wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

111987 wrote...

That example has almost no relation to the situation in Mass Effect...

Prove Sovereign wasn't a Geth ship.

Even if you wouldn't believe Shepard's claims of Reapers, but simply dismiss it as a huge geth flagship... that doesn't solve the problem of the apparently hostile synthetic race being able to build said ships.

The Council believes that the Geth that attacked the Citadel are more advanced. The Salarian Councillar says that if you bring Legion to see the Council.

I like how it really seems like the councilor knows that there is two factions of geth...

[Omega4RelayResident]

111987 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

If a big purple skinned dude came to your neighborhood.... started to tear the place up... everyone tried to stop him but it seemed no one could hurt him.... then the cops show up and unload half the Ammo they had in storage in the police station.... and finally the purple skinned man died

YOURE TELLING ME THAT YOU WOULDNT SUSPECT SOMETHING WAS FISHY?

You: "Ummm... that was incredible was he a mutant or an alien?"

Cop: "Nah just a disgruntled Microsoft employee."

You can at that point believe the cop, OR asking to please stop treating you like an idiot.

I like the ladder.

NO PROOF MY A**

That example has almost no relation to the situation in Mass Effect...

Prove Sovereign wasn't a Geth ship.

/FacePalm

Geth Ship http://images.wikia....hip_-_Feros.jpg

Reaper http://images.wikia....f/f0/Reaper.jpg

A little bit of common sense would tell you they are not the same thing...

A little bit of thorough curiosity would tell you that Geth have very uniform mobile platform designs...

The Council should know this... and by making Shepard a Spectre they showed some form of trust in him... and then for the rest of two games they did not trust his intel...

Council blowing off the threat of the Reapers = G. W. Bush blowing off the memo from the CIA telling him terrorist will attack

Now that you put yourself in the same camp as good ol' G. W..... I think I made my point.

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

If a big purple skinned dude came to your neighborhood.... started to tear the place up... everyone tried to stop him but it seemed no one could hurt him.... then the cops show up and unload half the Ammo they had in storage in the police station.... and finally the purple skinned man died

YOURE TELLING ME THAT YOU WOULDNT SUSPECT SOMETHING WAS FISHY?

You: "Ummm... that was incredible was he a mutant or an alien?"

Cop: "Nah just a disgruntled Microsoft employee."

You can at that point believe the cop, OR asking to please stop treating you like an idiot.

I like the ladder.

NO PROOF MY A**

That example has almost no relation to the situation in Mass Effect...

Prove Sovereign wasn't a Geth ship.

/FacePalm

Geth Ship http://images.wikia....hip_-_Feros.jpg

Reaper http://images.wikia....f/f0/Reaper.jpg

A little bit of common sense would tell you they are not the same thing...

A little bit of thorough curiosity would tell you that Geth have very uniform mobile platform designs...

The Council should know this... and by making Shepard a Spectre they showed some form of trust in him... and then for the rest of two games they did not trust his intel...

Council blowing off the threat of the Reapers = G. W. Bush blowing off the memo from the CIA telling him terrorist will attack

Now that you put yourself in the same camp as good ol' G. W..... I think I made my point.

Geth can't design their super flagship in a different way than the rest of their fleet? Are you an expert on Geth architecture?

Look at this image:
images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100107173534/masseffect/images/8/86/Ww.JPG

They're not all that different in basic shape, are they?

And how is it common sense to send the galaxy into panic by saying that a fleet of AI dreadnuaghts are coming to eradicate all life in the galaxy...based off the word of one person with no concrete evidence.

I don't know even know where that George Bush thing came from so I'm just going to ignore that.

Modifié par 111987, 03 septembre 2011 - 03:28 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

Because 4 councilors knowing about Reapers means that everyone in the Galaxy now knows about Reapers.... you make no sense.

Yes in the image I see Sovereign..... and a **** ton of other ships that are exactly alike... not to mention I have the artwork books for both ME1 and ME2 and Geth actually only have one ship design.... but thats out of game knowlege but yes those books do technically make me an expert

At least after Mass Effect 2 the Asari and the Salarian councilors should believe Shepard.... why?

Mordin Solus a trusted member of STG believes in the Reaper theory now..... Salarian councilor should as well at that point

Samara a Justicar whose judgement goes unquestioned among the Asari.... (key word UNQUESTIONED) believes in the Reaper theory.... Asari councilor should believe there is something that needs further investigation in the Reaper theory

I really want to see a cut sceene where the other two councilors order a Krogan to drag the Turian councilor off to get beaten with a hose out back

What is the point of having Spectres if you dont trust them.... Its like being president and not trusting the Secret Service

Architecture is the word you used? Architecture =/= Aero-Space Engineering.... funny you should mention architecture.... thats what my Bachelors degree is

If you dont get the Bush comment I think I am done here..... change your avatar to a Krogan.... its much more appropriate.

At least Kaiser has the right idea... Even if you do not believe Sovereign was a Reaper... it does not mean that the threat of a Geth Flagship of that magnitude is over... you cant turn a blind eye to threats like that

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 03 septembre 2011 - 03:58 .

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Because 4 councilors knowing about Reapers means that everyone in the Galaxy now knows about Reapers.... you make no sense.

Yes in the image I see Sovereign..... and a **** ton of other ships that are exactly alike... not to mention I have the artwork books for both ME1 and ME2 and Geth actually only have one ship design.... but thats out of game knowlege but yes those books do technically make me an expert

At least after Mass Effect 2 the Asari and the Salarian councilors should believe Shepard.... why?

Mordin Solus a trusted member of STG believes in the Reaper theory now..... Salarian councilor should as well at that point

Samara a Justicar whose judgement goes unquestioned among the Asari.... (key word UNQUESTIONED) believes in the Reaper theory.... Asari councilor should believe there is something that needs further investigation in the Reaper theory

I really want to see a cut sceene where the other two councilors order a Krogan to drag the Turian councilor off to get beaten with a hose out back

What is the point of having Spectres if you dont trust them.... Its like being president and not trusting the Secret Service

You were the one who said the Councillors should do something to protect against the Reapers. What are they going to do, tell everyone to start building up their military as quickly and powerfully as they can, just for fun?

So you admit the Geth ships and Sovvy share a similar design? Okay, good. Even if they didn't have the same design, it wouldn't mean that ship couldn't possibly be a Geth ship. The Destiny Ascension looks NOTHING like any other ship; does that mean it isn't really an Asari ship?

The President doesn't believe his SS agents if they don't have any proof of what they're saying...no matter how much you trust someone, you can't make that big of a commitment to them if they don't have any evidence.

Obviously from the perspective of the player, the Council looks like a bunch of blithering idiots. From their perspective though, their actions are understandable.

Besides, I don't think we'll need Mordin and Samara to convince anyone the Reapers are real once ME3 starts...

[Omega4RelayResident]

So you are telling me that after your experience in ME1 and 2 you were not bashing your head against keyboard every time they dissmissed your claims?

Me as Shepard:

Shep: "Couincilors with all due respect may I ask for one small favor as the person who ORDERED my own people to sacrifice their lives in order to save yours?"

Councilors: "Umm okay."

Shep: "I need you to militerize and be ready to mobilize when the time has come. I can understand how my theory sounds outlandish... you will regret not listening to me when you had the chance. By now I think I have proved to you that life means a great deal to me... Human, Asari, Salarian, and Turian."

If they would not listen to me after that then f*** em. Which is what they did in ME 1 and 2.... so guess whats happening to the Council in my game.

Also Mordin and Samara could have done a lot. The end of ME2 is 2 months before ME3.... you mean to tell me a quick visit to the council by those two was not possible in that amount of time?

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 03 septembre 2011 - 04:09 .

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

So you are telling me that after your experience in ME1 and 2 you were not bashing your head against keyboard every time they dissmissed your claims?

Me as Shepard:

Shep: "Couincilors with all due respect may I ask for one small favor as the person who ORDERED my own people to sacrifice their lives in order to save yours?"

Councilors: "Umm okay."

Shep: "I need you to militerize and be ready to mobilize when the time has come. I can understand how my theory sounds outlandish... you will regret not listening to me when you had the chance. By now I think I have proved to you that life means a great deal to me... Human, Asari, Salarian, and Turian."

If they would not listen to me after that then f*** em.

Of course it's frustrating! Like I said, from our perspective they look like a bunch of idiots! I can still see and understand their side though too.

[Omega4RelayResident]

The Turians were curious enough to study Sovereign's remains closely enough to discover the Thanix.... a weapon unlike any other..... but not enough to deduce that basic Geth ships are not equiped with a Thanix Cannon or a decent analogue of it..... even more so that the Turians "minutarized" it during the creation of the Thanix that is now installed on the Normandy.... so the Geth a brilliant sythentic AI race..... never discovered how to put a Thanix on all of their ships.... that is about as believable Santa Claus....

This Council is so blind and clueless that they would probably also dissmiss the existence of the Yogh..... even though it was the council that quarantined the Yogh to their own world.

I never said Sovereign and the Geth ships were alike.... I said they were very dissimilar if anything. This is what I see if I compare it to things we have seen in real life.

I see a swarm of wasps surrounding a very big ..... OMG is that a bug? is it a crab? is it an octopuss? WTF is that kill it kill it!

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 03 septembre 2011 - 04:18 .

[JonnyOwen]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...
This Council is so blind and clueless that they would probably also dissmiss the existence of the Yogh..... even though it was the council that quarantined the Yogh to their own world

Don't embarrass yourself. You provide me one, complete and fully solid peice of evidence that proves Sovereign wasn't a Geth ship. The Geth is a very highly advanced race, the Council races who have been fighting the Geth a lot recently would just assume that the Thannix was new technology, along with Sovereign itself.

Modifié par JonnyOwen, 03 septembre 2011 - 04:27 .

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

The Turians were curious enough to study Sovereign's remains closely enough to discover the Thanix.... a weapon unlike any other..... but not enough to deduce that basic Geth ships are not equiped with a Thanix Cannon or a decent analogue of it..... even more so that the Turians "minutarized" it during the creation of the Thanix that is now installed on the Normandy.... so the Geth a brilliant sythentic AI race..... never discovered how to put a Thanix on all of their ships.... that is about as believable Santa Claus....

This Council is so blind and clueless that they would probably also dissmiss the existence of the Yogh..... even though it was the council that quarantined the Yogh to their own world.

I never said Sovereign and the Geth ships were alike.... I said they were very dissimilar if anything. This is what I see if I compare it to things we have seen in real life.

I see a swarm of wasps surrounding a very big ..... OMG is that a bug? is it a crab? is it an octopuss? WTF is that kill it kill it!

Like I said, it could be easily argued that the Geth's flagship would possess weapons that the regular ships do not. The Thanix Cannon would be an example of this. Why wouldn't they put a mini-Thanix cannon on all of their ships? Because Thanix Cannons are meant to be installed on fighters and frigates, as they allow fighters and frigates to rival the firepower of cruisers. The Geth ships that attacked the Citadel were cruisers. Meaning they already had firepower equivalent to the mini Thanix Cannon, so why install it?

As for their appearence, i once again bring up the Destiny Ascencion. That ship looks nothing like any other ship; that doesn't mean it's not an Asari ship.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Examples of Common Sense:

"The lack of flashlight heads is good sign that they are not Geth infiltrators"

Example of Stupidity:

"Rules are rules. Assumptions are dangerous."

Listen I am not a genious or anything like that... I understand that a healthy dose of skepticism keeps people sane and functioning well in society.... but if Stephen Hawking said aliens are comming to destroy us, shat his trousers, and began to cry..... I MIGHT BE INCLINED TO BELIEVE HIM

Would you assume at first glance that the Destiny Ascention was a Geth ship?

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 03 septembre 2011 - 04:27 .

[JonnyOwen]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Would you assume at first glance that the Destiny Ascention was a Geth ship?

Common Sense:
No because it is defending the Citadel from the GETH.

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Examples of Common Sense:

"The lack of flashlight heads is good sign that they are not Geth infiltrators"

Example of Stupidity:

"Rules are rules. Assumptions are dangerous."

Listen I am not a genious or anything like that... I understand that a healthy dose of skepticism keeps people sane and functioning well in society.... but if Stephen Hawking said aliens are comming to destroy us, shat his trousers, and began to cry..... I MIGHT BE INCLINED TO BELIEVE HIM

Would you assume at first glance that the Destiny Ascention was a Geth ship?

I wouldn't assume it to be a Geth ship. I would have no idea what kind of ship it is, because it is totally different in design than any other ship in the galaxy. There's seriously nothing even remotely like it.

If you would believe something as big as an alien invasion on the word of one person without any proof, no matter who this person is...well, all I can say is I'm glad you are not in a position of power in our world.

Using that logic, shouldn't you believe the thousands of people who believe the world is going to end in 2012? Should we start building up our armies to protect ourselves against the armageddon, or invest all possible resources into colonizing the moon or something?