3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Omega4RelayResident]

First of all... going on instinct is not a bad idea sometimes.

Secondly... if I was on the council I would order a far more thorough study of Sovereign's remains... even if I didnt believe it to be a Reaper... Geth tech needs to be studied

Additionally... I WOULD F****** CALL THE QUARIANS AND ASK THEM IF THEY HAVE EVER RUN INTO ANYTHING LIKE SOVEREIGN IN THEIR CONFRONTATIONS WITH THE GETH.... oh and they did not seem to laugh Shepard off when he mentions Reapers at Tali's trial.... or did you forget about that fact? Maybe they actually believe him. So Quarians have commons sense and the rest of the galaxy does not....

EDI has proof in her databases that Reapers exist..... but no god forbit we have an AI bring forth evidence..... PUT IT ON A FLASH DRIVE AND GIVE IT TO THE COUNCILORS!

Really? One person is not enough? This is why I am so fatalistic about our own people.... we are sheep and are too scared to experess any damn opinion.... EXAMPLE:

Galileo: He was laughed at.... Imprisoned.... almost put to death about his "theories" of the "heavens"..... yeah lets not listen to the Mathematician.... no matter how credible they are....

Kinda like the scientists that state "Climate Change is happening without a doubt" and the Republicans in the U.S. keep trying to debunk science.... I swear that Mike Judge is a prophet because he foresaw the direction that America is going in the movie "Idiocracy."

Let me put this into f***ing perspective to you Mr. Smarty pants

People believe in GOD.... but wont believe in Climate Change....
People believe in ghosts.... but wont believe in Evolution.....
People believe in the Chicago Cubs winning a world series.... but wont believe that there MAY be life beyond our own planet

Also let me remind you that humanity has racism, sexism, homophobia, rape, liars, theives, murderers, and fantics of all sorts...

So do I believe that the majority of people out there are stupid, scared, or just plain old psychotic...

YES

In the French Revolution people killed off the Nobility of France via Gillotine.... because they were taking advantage of the poor.... hoarding all the riches.... and turned a blind eye to the rest of humanity that were not in their class....

in 2008 the richest sons of b*****s damn near brought the economic system down because of their greed.... to the point where people in the Senate, Congress, and White House were worried there might not be milk on the shelves in stores or money in the ATM......

and not only did we as the middle class not revolt against the rich..... we didnt even try to prosecute them.....

I have lost faith in humanity.... no one gives a damn about what happens to another person.... no one cares that there are such things as homeless children.... we are messing our own planet up and people dare suggest it is propaganda

So you dare... to question my intelligence, empathy, or integrity.... where people like you apply those mindsets to even our fiction....

A long time ago our fiction was filled with chivalry, bravery, standing up for the right cause.... now we enjoy fiction like GTA. See that tells me there is something seriously wrong with all of us....

No I do not believe the world will end in 2012..... the Mayan calendar ends in 2012 and that is where the myth came from.... even if I did.... what would the military do against an armaggedon? You make no sense there.

Remember Y2K? that whole panic? Because some moron forgot to program computer for the change of the millenium... however people were still safe about it and backed up the financial information on updated servers.... they were prepared for the worst but hoped for the best

Being prepared for the worst and hoping for the best is not a dumb strategy.... which is not what the Council did in any way shape and form....

So good job..... keep defending the morons

And you questioned my intelligence, empathy, and integrity.....

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:30 .

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

And you questioned my intelligence, empathy, and integrity.....

I am sorry you feel that way. I don't recall doing these things, but i obviously somehow offended you...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...
First of all... going on instinct is not a bad idea sometimes.

Secondly...
if I was on the council I would order a far more thorough study of
Sovereign's remains... even if I didnt believe it to be a Reaper... Geth
tech needs to be studied

They studied as much of it as they could, but remember they only got less than half of the total remains. And they did study it; that's where the Thanix Cannon came from. You brought that up yourself not long ago...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Additionally... I WOULD F****** CALL
THE QUARIANS AND ASK THEM IF THEY HAVE EVER RUN INTO ANYTHING LIKE
SOVEREIGN IN THEIR CONFRONTATIONS WITH THE GETH.... oh and they did not
seem to laugh Shepard off when he mentions Reapers at Tali's trial....
or did you forget about that fact? Maybe they actually believe him. So
Quarians have commons sense and the rest of the galaxy does not....

First problem with this is that the Quarians were stipped of their embassy, and have no official contact with the Quarians anymore. Second problem with this is that after the Morning War, no-one, including the Quarians, saw the Geth appear for 300 years. When they did return, they returned with Sovereign leading them. Third, even if the Quarians do believe in the Reaper threat, how does that have any relevance to this discussion? The Quarians are not the Council; their beliefs will not affect TRILLIONS of lives. They can afford to take things on faith and circumstantial evidence; the Council does not have that luxury.

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

EDI
has proof in her databases that Reapers exist..... but no god forbit we
have an AI bring forth evidence..... PUT IT ON A FLASH DRIVE AND GIVE
IT TO THE COUNCILORS!

Yes, let's show the Council our illegal AI...I'm sure they'll trust us. Not only that, but it's a Cerberus AI. The Council has no reason to believe Cerberus wouldn't have planted false evidence in EDI.

Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Really? One person is not enough? This is
why I am so fatalistic about our own people.... we are sheep and are too
scared to experess any damn opinion.... EXAMPLE:

Galileo: He was
laughed at.... Imprisoned.... almost put to death about his "theories"
of the "heavens"..... yeah lets not listen to the Mathematician.... no
matter how credible they are....

Kinda like the scientists that
state "Ckimate Change is happening without a doubt" and the Republicans
in the U.S. keep trying to debunk science.... I swear that Mike Judge is
a prophet because he foresaw the direction that America is going in the
movie "Idiocracy."

Once again this example is irrelevant. Galileo's theories, whether true or not, didn't effect the lives of trillions in the galaxy. Plus, Galileo had proof of his findings; Shepard does not.


Honestly, from here on out you're just rambling about a bunch of irrelevant things and getting really worked up about totally unrelated issues, so I'm not even going to address those things. If you feel I missed one of your points relating to the actual topic please point it out and i will address it.

[khordlambert]

I just want to comment on one part of your posting here Omega, we actually DO talk to a Quarian in the game who tells us that the Geth have changed greatly since ANY Quarian saw them last. (Which was hundreds of years ago.) so calling them up, if you could even get into contact considering the fleet is always moving, would most likely result in "Uh, we don't recognize ANY of those ships. It could be Geth I guess."

And considering you can't help but keep cursing, insulting, and abusing caps lock a tad, I'd call your intelligence, empathy, and integrity into question as well.

[Omega4RelayResident]

@ 111987

Yup I got pissed off last night.

Fine...

I am simply stating that the Council did not study Sovereign's remains properly...

Proof:

Even today we are capable of analyzing concrete, steel alloys, whatever... and find comparable material by finding similarities. I as a coucilor would have ordered such a test to see what improvements in armor the "Geth" have made to their new flagship by comparing it to the remains of the other Geth ships.

Without a doubt a huge disparity in materials and fabrication methods would be evident in the comparison. I would then ask to cross refrence remains of Sovereign against known armors manufactured in known space.... I guarantee that no Organic species had any closer results... but I bet at least one known alloy would at least have a 90% similarity.... the metal from the Citadel it self or the Mass Relays.

That would be enough evidence for me to even consider Shepard being correct.

Fist of all everything from materials, alloy mixtures, and fabrication processes do create different vesrions of steel... today there are over 3500 different types of steel and each can be identified rather easily as not being another type. http://www.worldstee...on=faqlist&id=6.

Do you want more evidence that the Council hired undergrads to perform the tests and half assed it? EDI confirmed that Reapers are a combinations of organic material and synthetic material. In the wake of Sovereign's destruction are you trying to tell me they could not find any "odd" organic material? This does not disprove it as a "Geth" ship but it raises a lot of questions. Such as... If the Geth can now melt down organic material and introduce it in the creation of their new flagship should we be worried about our own safety? YES.

Geth do not have organic material, the DNA found wound not match any of the species that reside on the Citadel at the time of the attack.... and comparing Keeper DNA to the DNA found would most likely show you that they are not the same. So explain to me how dedicated these experiments and research were?

Here is my trump card... Cerberus found in the remains of Sovereign enough evidence to prove that the Reapers in fact do exist. EDI's anti-Reaper algorythmns were based on that find. So much for deploying researchers quickly enough, or C-Sec or the huge military presence watching the Citadel and supplementing security. I mean it is ridiculous that Cerberus can smuggle off the Citadel such an epic find.... it had enough evidence to prove Reapers exist and create an anti-Reaper algorythmn.

The research team had to be undergrads and the Council appointed them to the task. If Mordin was appointed to the task in a timely manner all of this evidence would have more than likely come to light.

I was trying to explain to you how inconsistent lines of thinking affect people's perceptions of what is fact and reality even in RL today with my so called "ramblings". I was trying to show that even aliens might be prone to the blind part of truth because of personal beliefs. Its an issue of Psychology. Remember that Udina does not believe you but Anderson does.

To be honest we are off topic with this discussion anyway... we are supposed to be talking about Overlord. So at this juncture I refuse to go on about how the Council is a bunch of careless idots... I have presented enough evidence in a civil manner here that it proves my point. BOTOM LINE.

@ khordlabert

First of all mind your business. Secondly cursing has no relavance on itelligence, empathy, or integrity. George Carlin cursed most of his life... you dare to make negative assumptions about that wondeful man? Third I like how you bring up that I am insulting in the insulting manner you did. Its okay we all love your hypocracy. Abuse of caps lock.... its not abuse if I am actually yelling. Its also only abuse if more than 50% of the post would be Caps Locked.... wait what did you say about intelligence? Go report me to the Caps Lock police.



And yes Quarians do have some info that would help with the investigation. Tali's Pilgrimige Geth Data could be copied and used for study and comparisons. The Quarians do get into skirmishes with the Geth from time to time as Tali reveals in ME2. Oh wait... have the Quarian people been in contact with Geth in the last 300 years? I dont know lets ask Tali's father..... ummmm..... ummmm..... you get it yet? Maybe we can ask Kal'Reegar.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 03 septembre 2011 - 07:54 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

However your points 111987 do not mean the Council should not have militerized in defense of another possible "Geth" flagship attack.

Kaiser agrees that they should have been better prepared against the "Geth" flagships.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 03 septembre 2011 - 07:54 .

[111987]

Well, since you consider the conversation to be over even though you still haven't provided any real evidence, i won't even bother responding to your arguments.

So yes, Overlord.

If we want to discuss purely in terms of morality, than the whole project is immoral from my point of view. The subjugation of another race via mind control/influence is an immoral action and goal.

It could be argued that it is a necessary evil though. Assuming you haven't talked to Legion (i am not one who believes in those ridiculous 'Legion is lying' theories)

[Kaiser Shepard]

111987 wrote...

Well, since you consider the conversation to be over even though you still haven't provided any real evidence, i won't even bother responding to your arguments.

So yes, Overlord.

If we want to discuss purely in terms of morality, than the whole project is immoral from my point of view. The subjugation of another race via mind control/influence is an immoral action and goal.

It could be argued that it is a necessary evil though. Assuming you haven't talked to Legion (i am not one who believes in those ridiculous 'Legion is lying' theories)

Well, the project's original goal was just to emulate the relationship between Saren/Sovereign and the geth. Not all that immoral, I'd say.

[111987]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

111987 wrote...

Well, since you consider the conversation to be over even though you still haven't provided any real evidence, i won't even bother responding to your arguments.

So yes, Overlord.

If we want to discuss purely in terms of morality, than the whole project is immoral from my point of view. The subjugation of another race via mind control/influence is an immoral action and goal.

It could be argued that it is a necessary evil though. Assuming you haven't talked to Legion (i am not one who believes in those ridiculous 'Legion is lying' theories)

Well, the project's original goal was just to emulate the relationship between Saren/Sovereign and the geth. Not all that immoral, I'd say.

Actually, the project's original goal was to, and I quote, "This is Project Overlord. An attempt to influence the Geth by interfacing a human mind with a VI."

"We wanted to turn the Geth's religious impulse into a weapon...we realized they could be swayed. And if a proper figurehead was created...a virus with a face, if you will, the Geth might be controlled."

[111987]

laecraft wrote...

Almost everything could be written off as a (very) advanced geth technology. By the time you get the solid proof of the invasion - which is, of course, the invasion itself - it would be too late.

The thing is, everyone who cares already acts without waiting for the proof. It would seem that everybody but the Council knows.

The Shadow Broker is looking for the ways to survive the Reaper invasion. The Alliance blows up a Batarian system to slow down the Arrival. Cerberus hires badasses to exterminate the active Reaper agents. Salarian STG writes papers on "Reaper indoctrination." The geth are taking care of the part of their population that worshipers the Reapers. The rachni are lurking out there, rebuilding their strength and waiting for the moment to either join up with their old masters, or fight their influence once and for all.

And only the Council is still waiting for the proof. All hail the ever-alert upholders of galactic stability. How did they manage to isolate themselves from the world so completely that they ignored all the obvious signs of danger is anyone's guess.

On the day of the invasion...

The Council: (looking out of window) Who could've thought that the geth had so many advanced flagships!

Shepard: These are the Reapers.

The Council: Where's the proof?

All the factions you mentioned do have proof though. The Shadow Broker is working with the Collectors, and has the most extensive information system in the galaxy. For example, the Shadow Broker knows about the Heretic and Orthodox Geth, meaning he has proof of the Reapers. The Alliance blew up the system because they finally FOUND evidence of an imminent Reaper invasion. The Salarian STG writing papers on Reaper Indoctrination implies they believe Shepard, but writing papers is very different from mobilizing fleets or building up armies, which is what the Council would have to do. The Geth have proof that the Reapers exist; they were contacted by, worked for, and interfaced with Sovereign. They have evidence. The Rachni also know the Reapers exist because they also have evidence; they were indoctrinated by Sovereign.

The Council are the only ones who haven't been given proof.

[Kaiser Shepard]

111987 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Well, the project's original goal was just to emulate the relationship between Saren/Sovereign and the geth. Not all that immoral, I'd say.

Actually, the project's original goal was to, and I quote, "This is Project Overlord. An attempt to influence the Geth by interfacing a human mind with a VI."

"We wanted to turn the Geth's religious impulse into a weapon...we realized they could be swayed. And if a proper figurehead was created...a virus with a face, if you will, the Geth might be controlled."

That's what I said...

[shiftylookingspacecow]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Saphra Deden: which is why you keep a serial killer on board your ship.

Sociopathic serial killer or brutal warrior monk.

Pick your poison.

why not both?

[XyleJKH]

Everybody lighten up. Its just a game

[Omega4RelayResident]

Dude I presented a perfectly good train of thought as to figure out as the Coucilors that something is odd about the "Geth" flagship. I specifically said I do not wish to continue the conversation beyond this point because:

a) there really is no point to keep draggin this debate out... we will end up chewing each others faces off by the end of it

I did present a decent logical presentation that the investigation of Sovereign's remains was half-assed... if they performed it rigorously and thoroughly like I presneted it .... at least they might be afraid of another "Geth" assault

that is all... I applied current investigative and scientific research methods... and dont try to tell me that in a futuristic Sci Fi scenario the investigative and scientific research methods are not more advanced than ours that we currently have today... that is just absurd

if they crossrefrenced the findings the research team would find similarities between the armor of Sovereign's corpse and the armor covering the Citadel it self... if they never actually took samples of the Citadel outer armor is the only way they would not find any similarities... which is just insane and absurd...

Peson who discovered the Citadel: "Look a totally huge and abandoned space station."

Assistant: "Should we study it and find out as much as we can about it?"

Person who discovered the Citadel: "Nah lets just squat in it and claim we rule the Galaxy."

Assistant: "What! Are you serious?"

Told you its a totally absurd concept. You dont have to agree with me but what I said in the last post makes perfect sense.

...

What I do not currently understand is how STG has a study about "Reaper Indoctrination" and the Salarian Councilor knows nothing about this... how is that humanly possible... the STG answers to Salarian government officials

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 04 septembre 2011 - 01:50 .

[111987]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Well, the project's original goal was just to emulate the relationship between Saren/Sovereign and the geth. Not all that immoral, I'd say.

Actually, the project's original goal was to, and I quote, "This is Project Overlord. An attempt to influence the Geth by interfacing a human mind with a VI."

"We wanted to turn the Geth's religious impulse into a weapon...we realized they could be swayed. And if a proper figurehead was created...a virus with a face, if you will, the Geth might be controlled."

That's what I said...

How is controlling the Geth moral?

[Omega4RelayResident]

111987 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Well, the project's original goal was just to emulate the relationship between Saren/Sovereign and the geth. Not all that immoral, I'd say.

Actually, the project's original goal was to, and I quote, "This is Project Overlord. An attempt to influence the Geth by interfacing a human mind with a VI."

"We wanted to turn the Geth's religious impulse into a weapon...we realized they could be swayed. And if a proper figurehead was created...a virus with a face, if you will, the Geth might be controlled."

That's what I said...

How is controlling the Geth moral?

It is'nt. Not IMO anyway. As long as it asks if it has a soul then no attempts to control it should be allowed.

Personally I always liked how Mordin stated that experimentation on any race capable of calculus is immoral.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 04 septembre 2011 - 02:59 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

111987 wrote...

How is controlling the Geth moral?

Assuming the geth that sided with Sovereign were all the geth, then I personally wouldn't object too much. Even less so if it isn't direct controlling as it is appealing to their simple longing for a culture and/or a god.

Heck, I wouldn't even be that opposed to assuming direct control over the heretic collective, as long as the organic being put into the machine isn't forced. Then again, I would probably only trust myself with that much power...

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 04 septembre 2011 - 03:11 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Yes,because becoming a deity is completely moral.

[Omega4RelayResident]

I swear every time we come back to Overlord the conversation dies out.... what do you think Kaiser?

One thing I have noticed about our forum discussions... Legion is apparently always right.

Organics impose concensuss, Geth achieve concensuss...

Wow we are flawed

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 04 septembre 2011 - 03:15 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

New morality topic!

Saving the sick batarian in Mordin's recruitment mission.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 04 septembre 2011 - 03:23 .

[111987]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

New morality topic!

Saving the sick batarian in Garrus' recruitment mission.

You mean Mordin's mission right?

I think saving him is the moral thing to do. Yes he was being an insulting jerk, but when you're sick and dying, people often lash out at other people.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Genophage time? Or back to Cerberus in general?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

111987 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

New morality topic!

Saving the sick batarian in Mordin's recruitment mission.

You mean Mordin's mission right?

I think saving him is the moral thing to do. Yes he was being an insulting jerk, but when you're sick and dying, people often lash out at other people.

yes.

[marshalleck]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

New morality topic!

Saving the sick batarian in Garrus' recruitment mission.

It's pretty lame that my Shepard activates his omni tool and kneels down to help the guy, even if I didn't take the paragon interrupt. My Shepard wouldn't even bother. As soon as he started spasming and being useless, Shepard would have picked up the credit chit and continued on his way. The batarian sure wasn't going to need it.