3618 réponses à ce sujet

[ddv.rsa]

They were hoping to "guide him down a gentler path", whatever that means.

[AlexXIV]

ddv.rsa wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

Shiala had it coming. Even if she was indoctrinated by the time you find her on Feros, she started off following Benezia and Saren willingly.

She tried to kill Shepard, participated in an attack on a human colony, and she may still be indoctrinated. A few soft words don't excuse all of that.

Will you condemn everyone who made a mistake, even if they regret and try to make up for it?

Of course not. It depends on the scale of the mistake. Personally I find Shiala beyond redemption.

She served her Matriarch and trusted her, then got indoctrinated. That's beyond redemption?

[111987]

ddv.rsa wrote...

They were hoping to "guide him down a gentler path", whatever that means.

That doesn't seem so evil.

[BlueMagitek]

111987 wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

They were hoping to "guide him down a gentler path", whatever that means.

That doesn't seem so evil.

They could have told the Council that their top operative was, well, you know, indoctrinated (or insane works too) and wanted to destroy the humans, worked for an AI, etc.

Shepard might be an Alliance operative, but Benezia is a highly respected Asari matriarch who has access to proof.

[111987]

BlueMagitek wrote...

111987 wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

They were hoping to "guide him down a gentler path", whatever that means.

That doesn't seem so evil.

They could have told the Council that their top operative was, well, you know, indoctrinated (or insane works too) and wanted to destroy the humans, worked for an AI, etc.

Shepard might be an Alliance operative, but Benezia is a highly respected Asari matriarch who has access to proof.

They didn't know he was indoctrinated. But yes, their pride certainly was a large reason for what happened to them. I don't know if I'd kill Shiala because of it though.

[BlueMagitek]

^ No, but they knew he was acting strangely, that he was allied with the Geth, that he was going to a Prothean world located beyond the Terminus Systems, that he was bringing back the Rachni and attempting to undo the Genophage.

So yeah, the Asari didn't so much drop the ball as chuck it out a window.

[SkittlesKat96]

I didn't kill her, I just didn't really see the point. She was no longer a threat and she was going to do good things to make up for it. Also her Matriarch was dead/going to die and it was Benezia who was the one who made the mistake.

If given the choice though I'd have given her harsher punishment on top of helping rebuilding Feros, such as lengthy jail time or maybe I'd use my uber spectre powers to conscript her into my service or the service of the Asari military/commandos/whatever the hell elite military group the Asari have.

[Zulu_DFA]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Anyone got any suggestions for a new subject to discuss?

To blow, or not to blow? That is the question!

Oh, wait...

[Kaiser Shepard]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Anyone got any suggestions for a new subject to discuss?

To blow, or not to blow? That is the question!

Oh, wait...

I hate you... I think, depends on what you meant with that.

If you were referring to this topic, I suppose it's way past its expiration date now; blowing is all it'll ever do since it 'normally' died.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 04 octobre 2011 - 11:34 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Anyone got any suggestions for a new subject to discuss?

To blow, or not to blow? That is the question!
Oh, wait...

I hate you... I think, depends on what you meant with that.

If you were referring to this topic, I suppose it's way past its expiration date now; blowing is all it'll ever do since it 'normally' died.

That is a multi-level philosophical question and whatever the answer is given, depending on one's standpoint, it will be the same on all levels I've been able to think of.

[Saaziel]

Did you cover the Genophage , or the whole Tuchanka section (Grunt & Mordin's loyalty missions.)

For my say , it would have been more ethical to wipe out the Krogans. At least they'd die with honour ;Their culture is all about battle and war .

I usually let Mordin eliminate his former assistant. I don't recall the exact  justification for leaving him a live but i seem to remember it being flimsy at best. I'm 50/50 on keeping the cure; I'm just not sure how Grunt will play out in the Krogan scheme of things , considering he is pure Krogan.

Modifié par Saaziel, 05 octobre 2011 - 12:36 .

[111987]

Saaziel wrote...

Did you cover the Genophage , or the whole Tuchanka section (Grunt & Mordin's loyalty missions.)

For my say , it would have been more ethical to wipe out the Krogans. At least they'd died with honour ;Their culture is all about battle and war .

I usually let Mordin eliminate his former assistant. I don't recall the exact  justification for leaving him a live but i seem to remember it being flimsy at best. I'm 50/50 on keeping the cure; I'm just not sure how Grunt will play out in the Krogan scheme of things , considering he is pure Krogan.

I gotta disagree with the idea of wiping out the Krogans as ethical. Curing the genophage seems more ethical to the Krogan to me.

I also don't see much use in saving Maelon; he can't give us anything Mordin can't, he uses brute force research techniques, and could make forging a Krogan-Salarian alliance difficult.

[Aumata]

How the **** is curing the only thing that kept the Krogans from annihilating/ getting annihilated by the other species ethical? Let the Krogan breed to a horde and do the same **** that they were doing before the genophage or keep their numbers down to a point that they can sustainable and not be a major threat. People listen to the plight of Wrex on the genophage but it seems to me that they skip over the part where Wrex said that the thing that is killing them isn't the genophage but them not wanting to adapt and sustain their population. They rather give up or do the same damn thing anyway. Let Wrex handle the krogan situation with out the damn genophage and have them advance on better path than returning them to the same old krogan stance.

[RamirezWolfen]

Concerning the krogan, the only thing I would do is modify the genophage so they can have more births, but not like the pre-genophage days.

[Aumata]

I would take that as being the best thing but curing it is just freaking stupid.

[RamirezWolfen]

Aumata wrote...

I would take that as being the best thing but curing it is just freaking stupid.

I agree. The krogan are too much of a threat, and allwoing their numbers to swarm to those numbers again will only mean trouble.

[111987]

Aumata wrote...

How the **** is curing the only thing that kept the Krogans from annihilating/ getting annihilated by the other species ethical? Let the Krogan breed to a horde and do the same **** that they were doing before the genophage or keep their numbers down to a point that they can sustainable and not be a major threat. People listen to the plight of Wrex on the genophage but it seems to me that they skip over the part where Wrex said that the thing that is killing them isn't the genophage but them not wanting to adapt and sustain their population. They rather give up or do the same damn thing anyway. Let Wrex handle the krogan situation with out the damn genophage and have them advance on better path than returning them to the same old krogan stance.

Well, it was the Salarians who caused the initial problem to begin with, by uplifting the Krogan before they were ready. If they progressed at a natural rate, perhaps they could have learned to have kept their aggression in check.

Curing the genophage is not stupid. It's been a thousand years since the genophage happened; you don't think the Krogans have learned their lesson by now? Especially under the guidance of a leader like Wrex? Now personally, I wouldn't trust the genophage cure with Wreav, but Wrex, I would.

The genophage is definitley a factor that is killing the Krogan. You really think it's just because they can't adapt? Thousands of Krogan die every year fighting over fertile females, or doing mercenary work because the genophage has made them hopeless.

[111987]

RamirezWolfen wrote...

Concerning the krogan, the only thing I would do is modify the genophage so they can have more births, but not like the pre-genophage days.

How is it any race's right to determine how many Krogans should be allowed to be born?

The problem with the genophage is that it was inteded as a last resort. However, the Turians never threatened the Krogan with it; they just did it. Practical? Yes. But for another race to play God over another is not moral.

[Labrev]

111987 wrote...

RamirezWolfen wrote...

Concerning the krogan, the only thing I would do is modify the genophage so they can have more births, but not like the pre-genophage days.

How is it any race's right to determine how many Krogans should be allowed to be born?

The problem with the genophage is that it was inteded as a last resort. However, the Turians never threatened the Krogan with it; they just did it. Practical? Yes. But for another race to play God over another is not moral.

Yeah, if you're going to cure them either cure them completely or don't bother. A "nicer genophage" is just going to ****** them off more.

There must be a reason for the 1/1000 figure anyway, probably not just picked out of the sky.

I don't agree with the genophage because "all krogan are dangerous" but just that overpopulation is dangerous, and the krogan proved they can't control their numbers. There's no reason to risk it again until they show they can do otherwise. And sorry, but Wrex leading them is not enough reason IMO.

This is a race in which an individual lives hundreds of years, near-on a thousand, and they choose fatalistic/mercenary-type careers rather than find a cure for their dying race? I should doubt they'll be more responsible when the genophage is not a concern.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 05 octobre 2011 - 01:43 .

[SandTrout]

111987 wrote...

How is it any race's right to determine how many Krogans should be allowed to be born?

The problem with the genophage is that it was inteded as a last resort. However, the Turians never threatened the Krogan with it; they just did it. Practical? Yes. But for another race to play God over another is not moral.

By that logic, domestication of cats, dogs, cattle, and other animals is also not moral. Granted, those animalls are not sapient, but that is the only differentiating factor.

When faced with the high likelihood of renewed Krogan Rebelions that would most likely result in either the anihilation of all other Citadel species or the Krogan, the ends can certainly be portrayed to justify the means, making it a morally sound act, even if it is unethical. Morals =/= Ethics.

That said, I think that the best option would have been to allow the Krogan's natural adaptation to the orignial genophage stand. If their population increased to the point that they instigated war, the galaxy would not be caught off-guard this time, and would be able to counter any krogan aggression before their numbers got out of hand. If their population increases and they don't go to war, everyone wins.

As it stands, I'm a proponent of using selective application of the Genophage in order to breed-out their overly-aggressive nature, and functionally domesticate them so that they can integrate with the rest of galactic society. Preferrably, this is done by the Alliance as a means to secure a strong alliance with the Krogan.

[Zulu_DFA]

SandTrout wrote...

Morals =/= Ethics.

If you mean Latin =/= Greek, than, yes.

Both words mean the same thing: "customary behavior", "sum of habits".

Therefore, strictly speaking, "unethincal behaviour" and "amoral person" do not mean "bad" at all. It only means "behavior contradicting the custom" and "a person without habits" (one that in two instances of pretty much the same situation can behave differently, usually as a result of passion; that's why moody = amoral, by the way).

[111987]

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

How is it any race's right to determine how many Krogans should be allowed to be born?

The problem with the genophage is that it was inteded as a last resort. However, the Turians never threatened the Krogan with it; they just did it. Practical? Yes. But for another race to play God over another is not moral.

By that logic, domestication of cats, dogs, cattle, and other animals is also not moral. Granted, those animalls are not sapient, but that is the only differentiating factor.

Domestication doesn't necesarrily have anything to do with breeding. But regardless, as you yourself pointed out, the difference is sapience. In my mind that's what matters.

Mind you, some people would argue that the domestication of animals is immoral, but that's irrelevant to this topic.

Modifié par 111987, 05 octobre 2011 - 03:37 .

[Ravensword]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Anyone got any suggestions for a new subject to discuss?

To blow, or not to blow? That is the question!

Oh, wait...

I hate you... I think, depends on what you meant with that.

If you were referring to this topic, I suppose it's way past its expiration date now; blowing is all it'll ever do since it 'normally' died.

Or has it?

[ME-Fanboi]

I think that destroying the base is the best option, even with my renegade shepard. I mean if you look at TIMs face (if you kept it) when he stares off into the sun then you know he has something nasty planned.

[SandTrout]

ME-Fanboi wrote...

I think that destroying the base is the best option, even with my renegade shepard. I mean if you look at TIMs face (if you kept it) when he stares off into the sun then you know he has something nasty planned.

I saw that on my Renegade play-through, and I agree that he does have something nasty planned. I figured that it was something nasty for the Reapers, though. Still do, in fact.