[quote]Phaelducan wrote...
Wow, holy wall of text Batman. Phaedon, that was brutal. For the sake of mine eyes, please parcel.
[/quote]
NO MERCY.
You shall all be overrun by our glories armies of paragraphs! TO ARMS, LETTERS.
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And I say ti does.[/QUOTE]
Ah, in that case, I suppose you are right. As long as you say so.
[quote]You have no proof conventional weaponry can't kill a repaer - in fact, we know mass accelerators cna kill them (the derelict reaper)[/quote]
I do, and you are wrong.
It took two of the biggest fleets, the Citadel and the Arcturus one and they couldn't even take a single Reaper down. Harming a Reaper fleet is not even debatable. Hence why your claims about harming a Reaper fleet in the past, and harming it in the future with conventional weapons is absolutely absurd.
And no, a mass accelerator canon never took down a Reaper, but a superweapon using to some extent, mass effect technolodgy. There is a difference to them. The kind of difference that differentiates conventional weapons to WMDs and superweapons.
[quote]If reapers cannot even be hurt at all, why doesn't no one in the game acknowledge that?[/quote]
Because you never ask anyone? Jeez. You have faced a single Reaper, who could not be taken down by two of the biggest fleets in the galaxy.
At no point in the game is it suggested that Reapers can be harmed, even with the prolonged use of conventional weaponry. Because as you have seen, the prolonged sustained fire by two big fleets could not even take down a single Reaper. At what point will you have two fleets facing a single Reaper.
Don't bother answering that. The Live Action trailer reaffirms that thousands of Reapers are swarming over Earth alone, as opposed to a mere 200 vessels of the Alliance, a number that is considered "an impressive
navy", without of course knowing how many of these vessels are actually battle-worthy and how many are just shuttles or carriers.
[quote]
Regeneration only works if the rate of regeneration is greater then the drain. Death of a thousand cuts....
Conventional weaponry can work.[/quote]
I don't know if you thought that that made the slightest sense while typing it, but let me tell you that it doesn't.
Regeneration works for as long as the regenerative device keeps going and uses energy either from condensers or attracks energy from the enviroment.
Not only can you at no point have enough ships that manage to keep the shields of an entire fleet down for an entire milisecond, but the shields can regenerate at any point, and you will have to take them down again.
There is no evidence that conventional weaponry can take down a single Reaper's shields, let alone keep them down, or actually a harm an entire fleet of Reapers.
[quote]
Again, sez who?[/quote]
The lore says so. According to it, 2180-era conventional weaponry failed to take down a Reaper. It took two fleets and they couldn't do it.
[quote]
By feeding tech data and any advancecements to the Allaicne. Then the Alliance retrofits and modifies their ships.
Reper tech can be used to icrese effectivens of existing technolgoy and weapons. Hence, advanced conventional weaponry.[/quote]
Well, good, I hoped you would say that. First off, Cerberus researching the HR, and the Alliance retrofitting all of their vessels would take a significant amount of time, probably years.
Even so, the Alliance, supposedly having a big navy, have no more than 200 vessels, only 8 of which are dreadnaughts.
The Reapers have thousands of forces, maybe hundrends of thousands.
In a war, direct confrontantion or not (hide and seek), the Alliance fleet has the same chance of succeeding. Zero.
[quote]Yes, that's exactly how it works.. dear lord.....
Have you any idea what advancement and innovation is? Nope, apparently you don't.[/quote]
Yes, and as I said, nothing on the HR can achieve a significant result in combination with older technolodgies, that's what exactly what I said.
[quote]Technolgoy interacts in many unexpected ways. I don't need an alien gun to create a better gun. I can find an alien microwave, and use technolgoy from that to create a better gun. Or a new gun. Or something else entirely.[/quote]
And you are wrong again, of course, considering that there is no such thing as microwave weaponry -on a large scale at least- today or in the 2180s, you would have to create technolodgy from scratch, otherwise the microwave is useless.
[quote]And yes..teh larva that clearly has mettalic components, sensory equipemnt and a gun, has NO technoligy inside...despite it beign a frikkin terminator with a extra goo tank.
Congrats for not actuallyy debunking anything I said....[/quote]
That's exactly what it is, and that's exactly why you are so wrong.
It has metallic components - So what? It doesn't have an exoskeleton, and even if it is a super-duper alloy, which there is nothing to suggest that there is, no fleet can retrofit their ships with it, they'll have to create new ones from scratch. In a few months that is. Oh well. Tough luck.
Sensors? - Ships have them to, did you see anything over the HR which you would consider impressive?
A gun? - Yes, good luck with that. You would have been better off listening what I have been saying over and over again, but you want to disprove yourself...by yourself. Well, I can't really complain. Even if the "gun" was compatible with any ship, you are forgetting the fact that as a main weapon, it sucks. It has less firepower than a Thanix canon, which can only make frigates have the firepower of a cruiser. Not impressive. In fact, it has similar firepower, to three Occuli fighters. Believe me, it doesn't stand a chance to a complete GARDIAN array. It is absolutely useless as a defensive weapon too.
Goo tank - Oh, right. That will save the day.
[quote]The possibilites are endless. I'm not to blame your mind cannot count past 10.[/quote]
Well, sure the "possibilities are endless" is a nice punchline, no matter that it carries no depth or in fact you have repeated it twice, offering no explanation as to why it can lead to "
infinite new technolodgies".
[quote]a) you may have less damage and protection, but this is where tactics come in. Devide the reapers, flank them, focus fire. Smaller armies can sometimes carry home a victory.[/quote]
...right.
Divide Reapers, that won't work for a great amount of reasons, starting from the fact that they are AIs that can contact each other within nanoseconds as seen in the end of ME2.
Flank them, with what! You would be lucky if there are 1000 fight-worthy vessels in the entire galaxy.
Focus Fire, Smaller Armies - Yeah, this is basically where the idea fails spectacularly, jumps into a mass relay, and proceeds to committ suicide by having sexual intercourse with a black hole. The Reapers are more than you, to focus fire on any part of their fleet and succeed, would require you to have arithmetical superiority. Which you can't have under no circumstances. Unless you suggest attacking a single fleet of 1000 Reapers, managing to grasp a single ones attention, and suddenly sending two fleets against him.
Oh wait. That wouldn't work, oh well. And guess what, the Reaper who you ambushed has superior firepower than any of your ships. Oh boy.
[quote]
We don't know the exact number of hte reaper fleet. Speculation. And you can stil lfight back by using guerilla tactics.[/quote]
Yes, by sending two platoons to take out a single soldier. Yeeeah, that's not how guerilla tactics work. You never put several fleets to attack a single Reaper.
And we do know the number of the Reaper fleet. The live action trailer says that they are "thousands", that means that the minimum amount of Reapers that could be over Earth would be 2000. If the entire Alliance fleet was around Earth that time -let's forget the fact that Earth's forces are on the run, btw- you would have 200 vessels of varied efficiency.
You have 1 vessel for every 100 Reapers. And guess what, that vessel at any case has less firepower and less impressive shields than any of those 100 Reapers.
Oh well.
[quote]Lets see them try do that if the galaxy really focuses on them. Cerberus surives because it's in the shadows and doesn't draw much attention to itself.
A few hunderd soldiers are insignificent next to the manpower and firepower of the alliance.[/quote]
That, a) Doesn't stop them from being an army,
Releasing WMDs, c) Infiltrating the Alliance, d) Using guerilla tactics and attacking specific targets, e) Conducting political assasinations.
[quote]Sauce?[/quote]
[quote]Your claim is hilarious...that the entire humanity ha ssuch a small army. China alone has a bigger army TODAY.[/quote]
"Billions" ≥ 2.000.000.000
Try again.
[quote]This is space.
To get to any planet you need to use Mass Relays. Which can be blockaded.[/quote]
There are hundrends of Mass Relays, that's a fact, one of them is the number #314, remember? You can not blockade every single one linking to your system or nearby ones with sufficient ships.
[quote]Yes, you need ships to win space wars. Space is the ultimate high gorund. If you're not holding it, you're not holding the planet. It's that simple.[/quote]
CDN says that you are wrong in two occasions.
[quote]And no contradiction there either. Civilain ships cannot match military ships - neither in training, nor experience, nor firepower. A few cerberus ships can't do squat agaisnt a fleet.
Too big a size differece, too big a numbers difference.[/quote]
Basically the same BS, but with more. Not only does Cerberus not need a fleet, they can easily infiltrate the Alliance, but you also fail to understand that civilian doesn't go past the lack of "SSV"
They can easily produce military-grade ships if they want to do so.
[quote]Human dominatiosn DOES NOT equal enslaving other races.[/quote]
It does when you mention "domination over the Reapers" in the same sentence.
[quote]Adn that's not enough. Tehre's a limit to how many candidates or politicians you can "rig" at once. There's a limti to what you can do for a small organization like Cerberus.
Heck, entire nations tried to ursurp countries using such methods, and failed. And what about populat support? how do you think he'd get the people of hte Alliance to follow?[/quote]
Failed? Do you have any idea how many puppet govs exist today, alone? Popular support? Smear jobs, campaigns, people of the Alliance following? Propaganda, fake provokations.
Not enough? BS. All that they need is to get into the parliament in an important position and create fake situations where the aliens are provoking humans. A frigate, for example, destroyed, and it's (fake) records showing that it was a turian cruiser.
[quote]
That's exactly what democracy is about.
And who even cares? If most of the humanity is behind him, then it IS humanity by definition.[/quote]
"an plant lies, propaganda and do smear campaigns, "
You are so ignorant ("that's what democracy is about") and immature ("who cares if the masses are manipulated") that I can't even fathom.
Read a book about
democracy next time, and get a conscience, as well as an interest as to if the people governing you are criminals.
[quote]Nothing contradicts me. You're talking nonsese that even a 1st grader would know not to say.[/quote]
Excellent rebuttal once again, if you say so.
[quote]Cerberus doesn't have a fleet, it doesn't have a real army, [/quote]
a) Any collection of ships is a fleet,
An army of commandos is real enough and it is all that Cerberus needs.
[quote]it doesn't the the faciltities ot create OR support it.[/quote]
Source.
[quote]It doesn't have the support,[/quote]
They can create the support.
[quote]it doesn't have the resources.[/quote]
Source.
[quote]And no, it can't just "create puppet government" like that. So simple. So easy. Which is why KGB and CIA rule hte world...right?[/quote]
If you actually studied recent history you would think twice before posting that. >.>
[quote]Peacefully? You don't. Reapers don't seem like the negotiating type.
For beyond...the same as I wrote above.[/quote]
You accept then, that the domination of the beyond has to be violent?
[quote]No, you can't. Especially not if 10 other neighbouring nations don't want you there.[/quote]
You can take over the nation by becoming elected, or assasinating the previous governemnt and installing a puppet government.
[quote]I am obviously right.[/quote]
...okay.
[quote]Producing requires resources and time. Other races have many station and shipyards, not one. tehy have many recruiting stations and vast militaries.[/quote]
Uh... what kind of resources does it take to produce husks, and how did the Collectors find them?
[quote]Cerberus cannot make an army that could seriously threaten the galaxy. It is simply impossible.[/quote]
They accidentally created one that almost killed the de facto leader of Omega and her troops.
[quote]Source? Common sense and logic. It's how cell-based organizations that try to stay under the radar operate BY NECESSITY.[/quote]
Do I even need to say again, that Ken, Gabby, Joker, Chakwas contradict you?
[quote]Of course, in the game Cerberus does diplay it's logo openly, but hey... its just bad game deisgn. and agian, story and gameply segragation.[/quote]
Oh yeah, sure. No matter that concept art is based on writers' description of a character/location/concept.
And dropping 15 feet tall mechs, with logo or not = secrecy
Cool.
[quote]It's more than just money, which you obviously cannot grasp.[/quote]Logistics is money and everything that you can buy with money.
[quote]I did watch the video. You're strething the sentance to ludocrisy. Dominance can be achieved in several ways. Where does he say he plans to dominate both in the exactly same way?
You got nothing. Your sentance is not proof.[/quote]Other than the fact that you accepted that the "beyond the Reapers" part would require a violent response? Or that he actually mentioned dominating the Reapers as well?
Or that he believes that humans have a
rightful position far above being one of the most powerful Council races?
[quote]discribed by WHOM?[/quote]"In universe, the organization's name comes from an anonymous manifesto made after the First Contact War detailing the need for humanity to have a "Cerberus" to guard it from the aliens beyond the
Charon Relay (Charon being also the name of the ferryman in Greek mythology in charge of ferrying souls to Hades)."
[quote]Wanthing to be the top dog is now wrong and ayn race does it. IF you think the Asari leadership doesn't want ot dominate..or that teh turian or salarian or all others dont' want to dominate...you're delluding yourself.
Every nation looks out for it's own interests. Every nations wants ot be first.[/quote]You obviously missed the
"rightful" part, humanity already being either the most powerful, or one of the most powerful Council races.
[quote]Missing a s at the end of ship...typo.[/quote]And that still counts as navy, yes.
[quote]Anyway, trasnport ships cannot match miltiary ships. [/quote]Transport ships are used for transport, why exactly would they not have military ships? And where is the evidence that these ships are not mounted with weapons?
[quote]As I said again - Cerberus is like Blackwater.
If you think Blackwater (cerberus) can take on the US (Alliance) and hte rest of hte world (Council race..whichwoul be stronger than that, but what the heck), then you're living in a land of fantasy.[/quote]For starters, BlackWater doesn't have a damn political part, and no sponsored candidates.
[quote]BS.[/quote]Brilliant and eloquent rebuttals aside, I'll repost my argument until you debunk it:
"And how will they do that? The remains of their forces are on the run very early into the Reaper invasion. And as I said, they could very well control the Alliance if they wish."
[quote]Yes they would.
It's so pointelss for Cerberus to even try and establish dominion while the reapers evade. Who are they going to dominate over? a dead galaxy? The'll be reaped too.
And they are and reamin a small risk, copared to every OTHER potential risk in the galaxy.[/quote]Who said about during? Do you think that the various species will simply start building AA towers within days?
[quote]Adn if you're so concerned about the security risk the Cererus presents..why arne't you conerned with the securtiy risk others present? What if hte Asari turn on you? Far, FAAAR worse thany Cerberus....or Krogan? Or Salarains?
Let's face it, they have just as much reason to betray you as Cerberus.[/quote]Easy. The Asari and the Krogan are also being attacked.
I am also a friend with the leader of the krogan homeworld.
I never supplied asari or krogan with potential WMDs, and I never will, at least idividually.
The asari and the krogan are not wanted.
They are also not terrorists, and they haven't shown unjustified violence towards other species for centuries.
[quote]Secrecy will not be an issue of the reapers win.[/quote]...which is why we are discussing about a scenario where the Reapers fail and the Alliance survives...
[quote]Adn yes, pardon for saving hte Galaxy? Defiantely.[/quote]Cerberus didn't save the galaxy, and they would only pardon actions related to the Reapers. Most of Cerberus' crimes have nothing to do with the Reapers.
It is also not profitable, politically or otherwise for the Alliance to pardon a terrorist group with a political cell, which considers that the Alliance isn't doing enough and actually holds that as their position.
[quote]
[/quote][quote]Yes, you do.
You cannot prove to me that alien hate and desire to destroyall other alien is a common trait among cerberus memebers. Heck, you cannot even prove that conquering/enslaving aliesn is Cerberuses goal.[/quote]You are still missing the point. You claimed that the Lazarus Project members are common Cerberus employees.
"The Lazarus Cell consists of only 24 members, multiple of which having either been recruited recently or are familiar to Shepard, and their leaders support Shepard for destroying the base."
Also, Cerberus is an ultranationalist group, which supports that humans have a rightful position over the aliens (national socialism). That enough?
[quote]You don't have to know. Be prepared.[/quote]So, basically, TIM...can't know?
[quote]You missed hte point. Masss accelerators clearly CAN pierce reaper shield. It's just a matter of power or volume of fire.[/quote]Wrong again.
The superweapon, nothing about which seems to be related to common tech, used the mass effect phenomenon at some point.
In fact, this is exactly what proves you wrong.Not only even that superweapon, which we can never hope to match did not kill a single Reaper, the harm that it caused to the Reaper fleet was insignificant.
Therefore, even if you acquire it, your odds of defeating the Reapers remain the same, zero.
[quote]I won't, because it wasn't.[/quote]It's on video.
[quote]You dont' have to see them in the video. It's not liek ships have to be kissing the sovereigns ass to be in range to shoot it. Also, mass accelerated projectiles tend ot be redicolously fast. And well..ti's a cutsce that wasn't done propery..[/quote]Oh, I see it now.
-"It's not liek ships have to be kissing the sovereigns ass to be in range to shoot it" Why did they go kiss his ass in the initial phase, though?
- "Also, mass accelerated projectiles tend ot be redicolously fast" No they are not, this is your BS. We can see them throughout the cutscenes, reaching their targets rather slowly.
Oh and newsflash: 1) Your shields going down doesn't make you fall, losing control over your arms does, 2) Why did the Alliance stop firing if they didn't realize that the shields were down until the Normandy reported it?
-'And well..ti's a cutsce that wasn't done propery..' Let me get this straight. It doesn't work with your theory and therefore it wasn't done properly?
Real mature.
[quote]If you are stronger then you can also take out a potential threat.
Do some thinking yourself.[/quote]There you go, you said it. You think that the CB can ensure human dominance over the Reapers, good job.
At no point can the CB make humanity strong enough to defeat the Reapers. That's facepalm-worthy.
[quote]Husks..indoctrination...other stuff. So yeas, they can easiyl supply of your worlds.[/quote]Supply what? Energy? Do you think you can just plug them in? That's the big idea?
[quote]And disableing the Citadel? They have all the time in the world to re-establish the connection while they extermiante the last pockets of resistance.[/quote]Unless you actually destroy the mechanism properly and permanently.
[quote]Heck, they cna take their sweet time to build a completely new Citadel...[/quote]With what materials, where do they come from? And with what energy? Do they have infinite energy?
[quote]
[quote]
If yoI have said what? Your argument makes no sense.
IT was YOU claim that you cna create reaper-killing super-weapons with current tech. What you smokin?[/quote]
Oh dear. Your actual quote is: "
If you can create super-weapons with normal tech, then you can create EVEN BETTER super-weapons with reaper tech. Hence, researching the CB is not useless."
And you explicitly said that you can not compare the "normals" of one race to another when these two have made no contact.
You actually quote it, lol.
[quote]What goes public is only what's allowed to go public.[/quote]Bravo, bravo!
[quote]I meant the missile, genius![/quote]
...
So did, I, Einstein. Go back and read my quote again.
[quote]You talk to Hacket in arrival..you can talk about Sovereign.[/quote]Only in your wildest dreams.The question is named "The Reapers"
[quote]He seems mighty sure the Alliance can take on a repaer, but not many of them.[/quote]He says that it took the Destiny Ascension and multiple fleets to take down a Reaper. Which did happen, after Shepard took his shields down.
Unless the shields are somehow connected to the control of the arms, you are wrong, even if the Alliance fired a single projectile before, during or after the shields failed.
[quote]you have no idea how the reapers work OR how communicatiosn work apparently...[/quote]lol, yes, excellent rebuttal, once again, but why?
Oh and here is the original quote of mine:"Yes, as I said, you have no idea how signals or sensors work. They will need to block your signals from their sensors in order to not receive them, and having to block signals from sensors one by one can definitely take a lot of their processing power, and hey, what stops me from sending billions of signals at all times in the general location?"
[quote]because it doesn't only do that. You fail.[/quote]What else does it do? Other than have useless weaponry?
[quote][quote]It's you who can't defend an argument here.[/quote]
Yeah, you should start answering arguments instead of evading them multiple times, here are both quotes:
[quote]"Except that it is likely that the SB has already found it. And no, I wouldn't spend any time, Shepard is a soldier, don't be silly. And no, Prothean tech is much less complicated than Reaper one."
Just because you can't defend an argument, don't throw generic punchline responses. Reaper technolodgy is the product of billions of years of technolodgical evolution, not the Prothean one, which in the 2140s was deciphered by humanity and lead them to the discovery of the mass effect.[/quote]
[quote]You cannot prove anything here. You have no idea what tech is in the reaper core and hte base. NONE.[/quote]1) There is proof that they built it part by part2) Neither do you3) No matter the technolodgy, as I said, Cerberus can't a) Reproduce or distribute it enough,
It can't make a single vessel as powerful as a Reaper, c) Even if it does, you are outnumbered.
[quote]You are again blinded by your inabiltiy to think. Technolgy isn't just a laser.
Just because you don't see anything usefull, doesn't mean there aren't things that are more usefull than your pethetic mind could possibly imagine![/quote]Your argument is "There just has to be more stuff there, think of all the possibilities, I mean I can't think of any useful, but the possibilities are infinite, I tell you!"
The weapon was a DEW, a non-notable one at that, what's your point? The Thanix is more powerful and it doesn't screw up with the Normandy's conventional tech at all.
[quote]You're so full of BS.[/quote]Okay.
[quote]Finding out inner workings of hte reaper tech, evne if it might be weaker tech, still enables you huge leaps forward in technology.
speaking relaisticly, just the hand of that human reaper would be a treasure throve of information.[/quote]But you are not. Speaking realistically.
You say that the possibilities are endless, and you have yet to point out a single one that could be useful.
And as I have said, even if one of them is useful, it means jack. It can't defeat the Reapers. End of story.
[quote]How does that makes em LESS of the masters over the technolgoy they invented?[/quote]
Masters? They are its inventors (maybe). Unless they use magic, they are as susceptible to its effects as anyone. Shooting relativistic projectiles and shutting down relays is only useful for organics. The protheans did uncover to an extent, the secrets of the mass relays, why could they not do these stuff?
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