3618 réponses à ce sujet

[goofyomnivore]

I figure it is like this. You're risking a bit of manpower and resources for potential exponential gains, or you're just maintaining the status quo. One is safe and static the other is risky and dynamic. Neither is right or wrong, both have valid arguments. I kept the base personally, because I think it is tactically foolish to destroy an enemy stronghold, especially a stronghold of enemy you're near completely ignorant about. Plus I don't see Cerberus as a threat if they do turn. I doubt they could be as capable as the Collectors at thwarting Shepard, and a pawn at best when you consider the scope of a Reaper invasion. Although if Cerberus is going to turn on you, base or not they would get the tech anyways, so I don't feel like I'm denying them anything by destroying the base. (JMO)

[goofyomnivore]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I just don't see where everyone instantly thinks:

Wow, this thing's sole purpose is for storing species and making coolatta's out of the stored species.

There must be uber-win weapon schematics on here!!

What?

=====

Gutting the ship of all those stupid cocoons alone would take huge amounts of manpower and time.

Not to mention human livable quarters (mess hall, med bay, sleeping quarters, bathrooms), bridge for piloting (instantly recognizable controls - controls that don't answer to Collector DNA)

It's like if I tried to live in a Nautilus shell using the logic - well, a nautilus lived in that shell, so surely I must be able to!

The Collectors had weapons, shields, unique infastructure, gentetic knowledge, and apparently it isn't that hard to understand since EDI can datamine it fairly rapidly. The Codex it self says, if given ample samples and time Collector technology can be reversed engineered and boost technology by decades. That base is a potential gold mine to give the races an unexpected tech boost the Reapers aren't anticipating.

[Anacronian Stryx]

ThePwener wrote...
but this base has the potential to serve us in out fight to save the galaxy and stop the cyscle of genocide that has killed the galaxy for over 50,000,000 years. To justify it's destruction because of one man, is absurd. If the Protheans were still alive, they'd tell us to keep the base and take as many risks as necessary. These are the Reapers after all, not some anarchist revolutionary or simple war. This is a war for the survival of countless future lives. I'll [metagame] keep the base- Still i have no idea if anything useful would actually be gained from keeping the base and even if there is it might take eons to gain that knowledge am i really willing to take the risk of putting this base into TIM's hands only for the mere flimsy hope that something useful will come from it, also what of the reapers?..if they come soon they will just swing up and recapture the base with no effort..if i blow it up i will at least have scuttled one  of their production facilities ..rather than just take an enormous risk that i have no idea will bring any gain i will instead blow this sucker up and at least know i have destroyed one of the reapers bases.. that is tangible gain!".
.

[Medhia Nox]

@ Strive: "ample samples and time"

I never said it was impossible to reverse engineer.

The base IS a potential gold mine - if done correctly.

Have you reverse engineered your blender yet? Let me know how long it takes you - I'll get started on my home invasion. We'll see who beats who. Given ample samples and time - you might be able to extract the blender blades to defend yourself when I'm finished destroying your home - and finally get to you.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:00 .

[oracle343gspark]

I destroyed that ish every time! Even if you do save the base, you're never going to be able to use it for good. The IM will use it AGAINST you!

[ThePwener]

strive wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

I just don't see where everyone instantly thinks:

Wow, this thing's sole purpose is for storing species and making coolatta's out of the stored species.

There must be uber-win weapon schematics on here!!

What?

=====

Gutting the ship of all those stupid cocoons alone would take huge amounts of manpower and time.

Not to mention human livable quarters (mess hall, med bay, sleeping quarters, bathrooms), bridge for piloting (instantly recognizable controls - controls that don't answer to Collector DNA)

It's like if I tried to live in a Nautilus shell using the logic - well, a nautilus lived in that shell, so surely I must be able to!

The Collectors had weapons, shields, unique infastructure, gentetic knowledge, and apparently it isn't that hard to understand since EDI can datamine it fairly rapidly. The Codex it self says, if given ample samples and time Collector technology can be reversed engineered and boost technology by decades. That base is a potential gold mine to give the races an unexpected tech boost the Reapers aren't anticipating.

Exactly. Plus it has the schematics on how to make a Reaper. We know how to make one, we know how to dismantle one. And there was something important there, otherwise Cerberus wouldn't have made spacestations and taken all of they're focus on it for months like the new comic shows they have.

[ThePwener]

oracle343gspark wrote...

I destroyed that ish every time! Even if you do save the base, you're never going to be able to use it for good. The IM will use it AGAINST you!

You must have played ME3 already it seems. Good for you. It's not like it's obvious we're going to go after TIM at one point and possibly take over Cerberus and all of they're resources like we did with the shadow Broker.

[Medhia Nox]

@ThePwener: the same Cerberus who wasted tons of resources on Thorian Creepers, Husks, Rachni, and Thresher Maws?

===

So, while you're all sitting on a derelict juice machine.

I'll go defend the galaxy.

Let me know when you find something useful.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

both decisions are blind faith.period.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:04 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Humanoid_Typhoon: Agreed.

[Homebound]

Akuze Shepard doesnt want to give the same people that tried to feed him to thresher maws what might be the most advancce weaponry in the current galaxy.

[oracle343gspark]

ThePwener wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

I destroyed that ish every time! Even if you do save the base, you're never going to be able to use it for good. The IM will use it AGAINST you!

You must have played ME3 already it seems. Good for you. It's not like it's obvious we're going to go after TIM at one point and possibly take over Cerberus and all of they're resources like we did with the shadow Broker.

It's obvious with the information that we've been given so far about Mass Effecct 3, that Cerberus turns on us no matter what we do. Cerberus is indoctrinated. We may not have to go to fight the Cerberus headquarters, but you can be sure they'll be coming for you. That base will just give them more ammo.

Modifié par oracle343gspark, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:06 .

[ThePwener]

[quote]Anacronian Stryx wrote...

[quote]ThePwener wrote...
but this base has the potential to serve us in out fight to save the galaxy and stop the cyscle of genocide that has killed the galaxy for over 50,000,000 years. To justify it's destruction because of one man, is absurd. If the Protheans were still alive, they'd tell us to keep the base and take as many risks as necessary. These are the Reapers after all, not some anarchist revolutionary or simple war. This is a war for the survival of countless future lives. I'll [metagame] keep the base- Still i have no idea if anything useful would actually be gained from keeping the base and even if there is it might take eons to gain that knowledge am i really willing to take the risk of putting this base into TIM's hands only for the mere flimsy hope that something useful will come from it, also what of the reapers?..if they come soon they will just swing up and recapture the base with no effort..if i blow it up i will at least have scuttled one  of their production facilities ..rather than just take an enormous risk that i have no idea will bring any gain i will instead blow this sucker up and at least know i have destroyed one of the reapers bases.. that is tangible gain!".
.[/quote]


Becasue you, as a single man, have the right to null the efforts of an entire galaxy inj defeating the largest threat to life ever. Hope you feel good. Because in real life, when a country takes over an enemy base, they blow it up. Smart. Destroying it just because of TIM is a really halfassed choice. Not like the Reapers are near invincible for us to take risks like those. No, you prefer to fight like every other civilization before us, and risk being killed like them as well. Smart.

[SandTrout]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

both decisions are blind faith.period.

They can be. They do not need to be.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

both decision are blind faith.period.

Actually keeping the base is blind faith in something good/useful could come from it and blind faith in TIM's willingness to use whatever discovered(if anything) will be used for the greater good and not only his ends.

Blowing up the base is lack of faith in the same.

[Medhia Nox]

@SandTrout: Unless you are a developer and know the outcome of your actions - yes they do need to be.

[Ultai]

When it comes to tools, work tools, guns, moving up in scope to the genophage data and the collector base, my morality is at a fairly basic level: better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Genophage data might not seem like a tool to some, but it might come in handy as leverage with the krogans or salarians, depends on the situation. Hopefully I don't end up having to cure the krogans.

[ThePwener]

oracle343gspark wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

I destroyed that ish every time! Even if you do save the base, you're never going to be able to use it for good. The IM will use it AGAINST you!

You must have played ME3 already it seems. Good for you. It's not like it's obvious we're going to go after TIM at one point and possibly take over Cerberus and all of they're resources like we did with the shadow Broker.

It's obvious with the information that we've been given so far about Mass Effecct 3, that Cerberus turns on us no matter what we do. Cerberus is indoctrinated. We may not have to go to fight the Cerberus headquarters, but you can be sure they'll be coming for you. That base will just give them more ammo.

Yeah, you obviously have not seen the "Casey Hudson quote" thread. Go check it out and then come back. Again, you have not played ME3, so stop passing your statements as facts. I know it's the internet, but have a little class at least.

Modifié par ThePwener, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:12 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

.[/quote]when a country takes over an enemy base, they blow it up. Smart. [/quote]   Big difference is,99% of the time we know immediately what we are dealing with.


Well that quote failed epically.point still stands though

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:11 .

[oracle343gspark]

ThePwener wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

I destroyed that ish every time! Even if you do save the base, you're never going to be able to use it for good. The IM will use it AGAINST you!

You must have played ME3 already it seems. Good for you. It's not like it's obvious we're going to go after TIM at one point and possibly take over Cerberus and all of they're resources like we did with the shadow Broker.

It's obvious with the information that we've been given so far about Mass Effecct 3, that Cerberus turns on us no matter what we do. Cerberus is indoctrinated. We may not have to go to fight the Cerberus headquarters, but you can be sure they'll be coming for you. That base will just give them more ammo.

Yeah, you obviously have not seen the "Casey Hudson quote" thread. Go check it out and then come back. Again, you have not played ME3, so stop passing your statements as facts. I know it's the internet, but have a little class at least.

class? What the hell are you talking about? I'm just here stating my opinions. I don't know why you think I'm saying they are facts, since the last game hasn't come out yet. Of course they are just my opinions, I'm the one thats saying it. You're the one that keeps attacking anything I say.

[Rekkampum]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@ThePwener: the same Cerberus who wasted tons of resources on Thorian Creepers, Husks, Rachni, and Thresher Maws?

===

So, while you're all sitting on a derelict juice machine.

I'll go defend the galaxy.

Let me know when you find something useful.

This reeks of WIN. I honestly could not care about either choice- I saved some, destroyed on the other profiles. Reaper technology can indoctrinate even when it hasn't been activated, as numerous failed Cerberus experiments have shown. Still we *can* overcome Reapers by being innovative. I can't wait to see whether TIM's indoctrinated along with Cerberus.

[SandTrout]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@SandTrout: Unless you are a developer and know the outcome of your actions - yes they do need to be.

It is not blind faith if you use available data and logic to dictate your actions, even if you do not have certainty of the outcome.

Blind faith is assuming that TIM will do what is best because he shares my goals (human advancement).

Blind faith is also assuming that we can win without the base, and TIM will just use it for evil afterwards, because Cerberus doesn't answer to the Council.

Blind faith is essentially the abandonment of reason, logic, and data in favor of dogma.

If you are weighing the possibilities against each other useing logical extrapolation of the available data (no matter how limited), then it is not 'blind faith'. It is a guess of the best course of action. Is it going to be perfect? No, since we do not have all the data. Is it based on faith in someone or some organization? No, it is based on logic, reason, and data.

[ThePwener]

oracle343gspark wrote...

class? What the hell are you talking about? I'm just here stating my opinions. I don't know why you think I'm saying they are facts, since the last game hasn't come out yet. Of course they are just my opinions, I'm the one thats saying it. You're the one that keeps attacking anything I say.

Opinion? You said "it's obvious" and "Cerberus is [definetly] indoctrinated". Those aren't opinions, you're passing your statements as facts. Don't want me saying so? change your wording.

[SandTrout]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

when a country takes over an enemy base, they blow it up. Smart.

   Big difference is,99% of the time we know immediately what we are dealing with.


Well that quote failed epically.point still stands though

Actually, he was being sarcastic, I think, because most of the time countries do not destroy captured enemy compounds.

Modifié par SandTrout, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:16 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

ThePwener wrote...
Becasue you, as a single man, have the right to null the efforts of an entire galaxy inj defeating the largest threat to life ever. Hope you feel good. Because in real life, when a country takes over an enemy base, they blow it up. Smart. Destroying it just because of TIM is a really halfassed choice. Not like the Reapers are near invincible for us to take risks like those. No, you prefer to fight like every other civilization before us, and risk being killed like them as well. Smart.

You have absolutely no evidence that keeping the base won't result in a even bigger catastrophe .. all Shep could do at the moment was to draw on his experience - Reaper tech is dangerous it indoctrinates people (Vermire, Saren, Benezia,Reaper husk) and Tim is the head of a ruthless terrorist organization willing to do anything and experiment on anything - this is not a good combination.

Taking risks is all good when you take the risk to actually gain something you Know will be a benefit but the game never tells you that, for all we know the base represents a future great danger for the galaxy.

It's not taking risks - it's a leap of faith.