3618 réponses à ce sujet

[oracle343gspark]

ThePwener wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

class? What the hell are you talking about? I'm just here stating my opinions. I don't know why you think I'm saying they are facts, since the last game hasn't come out yet. Of course they are just my opinions, I'm the one thats saying it. You're the one that keeps attacking anything I say.

Opinion? You said "it's obvious" and "Cerberus is [definetly] indoctrinated". Those aren't opinions, you're passing your statements as facts. Don't want me saying so? change your wording.

Yes sir, Mr. righteous internet badass!

[SandTrout]

oracle343gspark wrote...

Yes sir, Mr. righteous internet badass!

English composition and rhetoric. You would do well to learn and understand these things.

[Medhia Nox]

@SandTrout: So - you're arguing that Shepard is a rational, patient scientist... and not a knee-jerk reaction Space Bad-ass?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

@sandtrout i understand he was being sarcastic.

[ThePwener]

Rekkampum wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@ThePwener: the same Cerberus who wasted tons of resources on Thorian Creepers, Husks, Rachni, and Thresher Maws?

===

So, while you're all sitting on a derelict juice machine.

I'll go defend the galaxy.

Let me know when you find something useful.

This reeks of WIN. I honestly could not care about either choice- I saved some, destroyed on the other profiles. Reaper technology can indoctrinate even when it hasn't been activated, as numerous failed Cerberus experiments have shown. Still we *can* overcome Reapers by being innovative. I can't wait to see whether TIM's indoctrinated along with Cerberus.

Oh please. It's a damn base. Metagaming, the base will at the end end up in Shepard's hands and never be used against the Reapers due to Cerberus not helping in 90% of the game (bastards). It'll end up being used by Shepard (if he wishes), to advance Humanity and stomp on every other race.

[Raiil]

I stick with destroying it. I know the Reapers are coming, and that means there isn't sufficient time, imho, to truly study it and get anything all that useful. There may be blueprints and schematics- but this isn't an ordinary base built by ordinary people, but by mind-controlled slaves who wouldn't necessarily need a physical copy in order to construct it.

Between that and the fact that I'd be handing it over to a group I trust about as far as I can throw a krogan, destroying it seems the proper answer. There's also the irrational RAEG AGAINST THE REAPERS as well.

[ThePwener]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@SandTrout: So - you're arguing that Shepard is a rational, patient scientist... and not a knee-jerk reaction Space Bad-ass?

Funny, because mine was always rational, patient and smart. Never jumping in without questioning first.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The most logical approach to saving the galaxy is to minimize risk.

And thus destroying the base is the logical course of action.

[SandTrout]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@SandTrout: So - you're arguing that Shepard is a rational, patient scientist... and not a knee-jerk reaction Space Bad-ass?

I never said anything about being patient or a scientist, but my Shepard is rational, rather than emotional. I cannot speak for anyone's Shepard but my own, but the assertion that the decision can only be made based on blind faith is erroneous.

My point is that not everyone 'follows their heart'. I prefer to follow my brain. The results tend to be superior. Regardless of limitations on my hardware, following emotions yields poor outcomes.

[Medhia Nox]

@ThePwner: Yes, I'm sure your Shepard waxed philosophical about a vast variety of topics.

====

Though, I'll confess I did probably give up a good opportunity to get rid of Cerberus AND keep blood off my hands.

If Cerberus gets the base - they'd have to devote all their resources to protecting it and studying it. Which might put them all in one place - perfect either 1) Indoctrination. 2) Reaper scorched-earth policy.

Damn my short-sighted actions - now I have to kill them the old fashion way - one by one.

====

@SandTrout: Either you've never had feelings for another human being - or you're full of sh_t on that "rational thinking is just so the way I do everything".

And - are you a current college student or just graduated? 

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:25 .

[ThePwener]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

And thus destroying the base is the logical course of action.

I could be wrong... but I smell sarcasm. The Reapers aren't a common foe. We should risk it all, sacrifice all, and go all out on them. Shepard has in his hands the chance no other civilization has never had - to defeat the Reapers. I may be cynical, but the Reapers aren't going to cut us any slack, so there is no reason we should either.

The Reapers didn't want us in that base for a reason. I say take it, and live with the consequences. That base is more then any other civilization before us had, so we owe it to them to at least try and fight the Reapers with wathever we can, no matter what. Because if we lose, we lose all and the cycle continues. Me, as Commander Shepard, will not allow that.

[InkognitoY]

How come nobody remembers the fact that Harbinger has direct terminal access to the entire station? That alone is reason enough to get rid of it.

[Medhia Nox]

@ThePwener: Maybe they didn't want you to save the humans they were turning into a slushie?

No - there has to be more!

-----

On a side note - would you try to battle natural extinction cycles with such vehemency?

Since death is inevitable and makes way for biodiversity - death is a necessary function of evolution. Even if it is a whole species.

It would be "thinking with your heart" - to fight for survival (and I find nothing wrong with that). But survival is a futile waste of time - in the end, no matter what you do, you will die.

[ThePwener]

InkognitoY wrote...

How come nobody remembers the fact that Harbinger has direct terminal access to the entire station? That alone is reason enough to get rid of it.

WRONG

Harbinger had direct access through the Collectors, or more specifically, the Collector General, and they're all dead. Otherwise, he'd had used Reaper nanotech technology to control everything, like they did with Greyson, but he didn't, and that way it was more efficient. This hints to the base not having any Reaper tech and it's all Collector bug technology. This also points to Casey's quote on "Cerberus LOOKS like they are working with the Reapers" and don't seem to be indoctrinated, but doing something else.

[ThePwener]

Medhia Nox wrote...

On a side note - would you try to battle natural extinction cycles with such vehemency?

Since death is inevitable and makes way for biodiversity - death is a necessary function of evolution. Even if it is a whole species.

It would be "thinking with your heart" - to fight for survival (and I find nothing wrong with that). But survival is a futile waste of time - in the end, no matter what you do, you will die.

That's what the Reapers are probably programmed to think. But that's the beauty of life... it always finds a way. Life continues through our children, and that's what Im fighting for. Not the current lifes, but the next generation.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Neither choice is more valid then the other.

[SandTrout]

@SandTrout: Either you've never had feelings for another human being - or you're full of sh_t on that "rational thinking is just so the way I do everything".

And - are you a current college student or just graduated?

You assume too much from my statement. I do, in fact, have feelings. Following them has generally gotten me into s**t. Following reason has generally achieved success. I am not perfect, and my emotions do occasionally get the better of me, but like I said, the results tend to be poor.

For the record, yes, I am a college student, but I just entered college after a 5 year military tour, and I have had this philosophy of mine for fairly decent chunk of my life. Take from that what you will.

[ThePwener]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Neither choice is more valid then the other.

You won't say that when the Reapers are toast and everyone is scurring the remains of the space Cthulus to get ahead of the other races. With the base, we can preserve Humanity and defend it.... by force if necessary. Believe me, it'll be another kind of hell when the Reapers are squashed, and I want to protect Humanity from it.

Modifié par ThePwener, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:39 .

[Raiil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

And thus destroying the base is the logical course of action.

No. Destroying the base leaves us at greater risk of being destroyed by the enemy because we have no advantage.

Saving it promises information, information that increases our chances, minimizing the risk of defeat.

Saving promises the chance that it will increase the odds in our favour. There's no guarentee that a) we will find anything useful enough and we'll (as in Shepard) will ever get access to it if there is.

Regardless of whether you like TIM or not, all Shepards know that he will do what he thinks is correct, and that doesn't necessarily mean what Shepard thinks is correct. I won't get into the semantics of whether Cerberus is good or evil- it's too subjective to argue properly, I think- but it's in-game fact that TIM is willing to place anyone (but himself, I guess? But I haven't read all the comics, so I don't know) in harm's way or ignore their opinions/feelings on the matter once he makes a decision. Whether that's good or bad is up to you.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

And thus destroying the base is the logical course of action.

No. Destroying the base leaves us at greater risk of being destroyed by the enemy because we have no advantage.

Saving it promises information, information that increases our chances, minimizing the risk of defeat.

We've seen many Cerberus experiments go down horribly before, most of the time in such a way that their only "success" was that they were a valid proof of concept. I don't want murderous, near-sapient seeker swarms on a rampage across the galaxy whilst preparing for the Reapers.

[Medhia Nox]

@ThePwner: And the Reapers don't destroy "life" - they destroy "the life of you and the people you feel connected to".

You're acting purely on emotion - which is fine.

IF you said: "I will struggle against the Reapers, and if I lose, it was clear that I was not the species ready to destroy this cycle." Then maybe I could accept you're still thinking "logically" ((as in, only with your head and not your heart)).

====

@SandTrout: Assuming a tour means you were stationed somewhere - glad you're back safe, and congrats on school.

As a derailing - don't give up on the whole thinking with your heart stuff, it can also lead to some pretty awesome things that thinking only with reason never will.

Concerning the game - you never once had to act on a "gut feeling" during your tour? You always had the time to evalutate every possible outcome and come to the most logical of conclusions? 

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:45 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

ThePwener wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Neither choice is more valid then the other.

You won't say that when the Reapers are toast and everyone is scurring the remains of the space Cthulus to get ahead of the other races. With the base, we can preserve Humanity and defend it.... by force if necessary. Believe me, it'll be another kind of hell when the Reapers are squashed, and I want to protect Humanity from it.

You can speculate that with the base you have the key.you cannot say without a shadow of a doubt the key to beating them would be there.you cant say either choice is more valid until you beat ME3.this argument is pointless.The Reapers have spent billions of years hiding their very existance,what make you think they can't hide the key to their destruction?

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:45 .

[ThePwener]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Neither choice is more valid then the other.

You won't say that when the Reapers are toast and everyone is scurring the remains of the space Cthulus to get ahead of the other races. With the base, we can preserve Humanity and defend it.... by force if necessary. Believe me, it'll be another kind of hell when the Reapers are squashed, and I want to protect Humanity from it.

You can speculate that with the base you have the key.you cannot say without a shadow of a doubt the key to beating them would be there.you cant say either choice is more valid until you beat ME3.this argument is pointless.

Im metagaming. BW already said that the key to defeating them is revealed halfwaythrough ME3, so no worries. The base will end up used to advance humanity. That's what TIM was thinking in the first place. I don't think he wanted to fight the Reapers in the first place, and was leaving that to Shepard.

Yes, Im metagaming.

[goofyomnivore]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@ Strive: "ample samples and time"

I never said it was impossible to reverse engineer.

The base IS a potential gold mine - if done correctly.

Have
you reverse engineered your blender yet? Let me know how long it takes
you - I'll get started on my home invasion. We'll see who beats who.
Given ample samples and time - you might be able to extract the blender
blades to defend yourself when I'm finished destroying your home - and
finally get to you.

The Codex says rapidly(I assume that means months) when speaking of Collector technology.. heck they reverse engineered Sovereign's scraps in a few years, imagine the tons of resources and samples that base holds. That base's purpose was building a Reaper and "blending" species genetics, but that isn't all it did.

Also I don't get your analogy at all. In Mass Effect terms, you don't need to reverse engineer a Collector Particle Beam to use it, but you need to reverse engineer it to understand it and build forward on that technology. That base gives you the resources to understand the Collectors technology.

Modifié par strive, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:48 .