3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...


'Twasn't their cause, so their unwilling sacrifice is far from justified.

It was their cause even if they didn't know it.

So Cerberus has the right to play god now?

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Akuze is a perfect example of why Cerberus can be trusted with the base.

/sarcasm

A bunch of meat-heads died for a cause. Cry me a river.

Again, I don't find you credible.  On this thread, Cereberus is allowed to kill people for a "just" cause - survival and dominance of humanity in the galactic universe

On your other thread, we should not sacrifice Earth for the possiblity of the continuation of humanity.  We should just give up.

What exactly is your true point on these matters?

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...
The argument that "Reality is subjective" is a lie used to cover the fact that you do not wish to deal with the real.

Is that really the argument? What I've heard more often is that objective truth is essentially irrelevant, because even if it exists we don't have access to it. We've got the tools that scientists and pragmatists have, of course -- we can put together an explanation that fits the evidence we have, and if it works then it's "true." That's all the "truth" you're going to get with those tools.

There are also other tools, of course. Revelation and whatnot. Those tools work too. At least until we die, when someone's gonna be wrong.

I loled.

But think for a moment... how scary would it be to be told by a God or some such authority absolute truth... heavy....

Iono...I imagine god would have to have an SQ infinitely greater then our own,would (S)he even be able to put it in a way our feeble minds could comprehend

I'm sure if there is an all-power diety with access to 'absolute truth' they probably know how to comunicate with people in a way that doesn't melt their brains.  That isn't really the scary part.  It's the whole unescapable part thats scary.  Like, this is 'how life is and nothing you can do will change it.'

Science has the comfort of being fallible.  Like.  'We can always find a way.'  What if the truth was 'there are no aliens,' or 'there is no cure for cancer' or 'man will never learn how to understand a woman's pyche.'  Cuz that would suck...

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

What happens when we win in spite of the CB decision?

[Saaziel]

Actually , I believe Humanity would prefer extinction than spending the rest of time in Reaper form with the likes of you, Saphra.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

What exactly is your true point on these matters?

Okay, encore, encore!

Human survival and advancement is paramount to me.

Ideally that means defeating the Reapers. Towards that end I support saving the Collector base because it may give us the means.

IF IT DOESN'T

Then I say we throw in the towel and join them. Our species may survive, even if it is in an unrecognizable form. It's not what I ever wanted, but it is better than total extinction which will happen if we fight the Reapers to the last man. They will utterly eradicate us if they can't pacify us long enough to process us.

You know, I wouldn't be suprised if that is how it turns out in ME3.  That is the reason we are fighting Cerberus.  Becuase that way more boring than any number of reasons the writers could come up with.  But that certainly fits with their reasoning so far.

But seriously: the Akuze dizaster was justified becuase... it helped us learn how awesome Thresher Maws are at killing things?  Did they really need to kill 50 to learn that?

[Afalstein]

When Mordin asks you if he should destroy Maelon's research for curing the genophage, the initial paragon response is that the research is tainted because of the methods used. Mordin replies that if you save the research, then at least those test subjects died for SOMETHING.

This was my thought when confronted with the Collector Base decision. I still destroyed it, because I'd heard enough rumors to know what was the "correct" choice, but I wondered why this argument was never even used. Especially because the paragon option with Mordin IS to save the research. What makes the Collector base different?

The obvious answer is that you're giving the Collector Base to a ruthless human-centric terrorist cell, not a benign guilt-ridden salarian doctor. Which, given that Cerberus appears to be working with the Reapers in Part III, was probably a good decision. Other reasons also occur to mind... the inherent nature of Reaper artifacts to brainwash those near them, for instance.

But none of the dialogue options really mention these, they all focus on the consumed colonists and how it would be 'immoral' to research such horrific technology. It strikes me as missing the chief objections and really being somewhat inconsistent, given Mordin's loyalty quest.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

What happens when we win in spite of the CB decision?

We go on, DoD will persevere*. We are nothing if not resilient.

*in one form or another

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

What exactly is your true point on these matters?

Okay, encore, encore!

Human survival and advancement is paramount to me.

Ideally that means defeating the Reapers. Towards that end I support saving the Collector base because it may give us the means.

IF IT DOESN'T

Then I say we throw in the towel and join them. Our species may survive, even if it is in an unrecognizable form. It's not what I ever wanted, but it is better than total extinction which will happen if we fight the Reapers to the last man. They will utterly eradicate us if they can't pacify us long enough to process us.

BTW, asking for an encore would imply that I enjoy your arguments.  I do not.  A better word would have been "Clarify".

So, you basically believe that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?

By that premise we would all be drug addicts and communists.

[Sisterofshane]

Saaziel wrote...

Actually , I believe Humanity would prefer extinction than spending the rest of time in Reaper form with the likes of you, Saphra.

Especially if there is some sort of collective consciousness, which Sovereign seems to hint at.

*Shudders at the thought of hearing Saphra's misguided (albeit well meaning) arguments for the rest of eternity*

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

By that premise we would all be drug addicts and communists.

We should probably give up the war on drugs but we utterly demolished communism except for a few tiny (and poor) holdout states.

I don't think North Korea and Cuba are particularly impressive examples of Communism at work.

That's not what I meant.
Not only are we losing the war on drugs, by your logic we should all become drug addicts. (Can't Beat 'Em, so Join 'Em).
And maybe communism was a bad example, I'll give you that.  But there was a point in time were communism was considered to be the way of the future.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

@Afalstien: Um... For reals? Yeah. That was what I wanted to say.



Your points are pretty much my reasoning too. But with an added, "No, eff YOU TIM!" Because my cannon Shep is a Lone Survivor and I hold him personally responsible for the death of my squadmates. He makes some sound arguments in support for his cause but ultimately I don't believe half of what he says.

Don't trust him. And given it looks like he is trying to hunt you down and kill you regardless of whether you gave him the base or not I'm sure I was justify in my opinion of his trustworthyness.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

That's not what I meant.
Not only are we losing the war on drugs, by your logic we should all become drug addicts. (Can't Beat 'Em, so Join 'Em).

No, my logic doesn't suggest that at all. You are taking your own analogy a little too literally.

The drug addicts are a symptom of drugs anyway, they are not the cause.

What I'm saying is we should join with the drug pushers and producers in a mutually beneficial relationship.

Namely, we let them sell legally and we put a tax on it.

Right.  And let them fix electons.  Kill competitors.  Sell women into slavery.  And anything else they want to do.  Becuase, hey, taxes right?

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Ug. Your understand of the severity of the problems The Drug Cartels inflict in Mexico alone is bad. What just because they are 'legitimate' once you legalize drugs means they will suddenly lose interest in all the power they have? And you've never heard of 'white slavery?' And what since they can sell their drugs legally they suddenly get squeamish about killing their competition?

You know what. Don't answer any of those questions. You still haven't justified Akuze.

Akuze. Why did Cerberus do it and what good did it do for humanity. GO!

Modifié par Shimmer_Gloom, 03 août 2011 - 04:19 .

[SandTrout]

We do not know what was learned from Akuze, as it is never revealed to us. Presumably, there would be some sort of medical knowledge on how to treat exposure to Thresher Maw acid, or the behavior patterns of Thresher Maws, but those are just guesses on my part.

Generally, people don't do that kind of thing just for the lulz, though there are excepctions....

Modifié par SandTrout, 03 août 2011 - 04:24 .

[Medhia Nox]

Well - I got one assumption about who you really are correct.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Well - I got one assumption about who you really are correct.

Its Ron Paul!!!  I knew it!

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

Ug. Your understand of the severity of the problems The Drug Cartels inflict in Mexico alone is bad.

Mexico's welfare is not something that concerns me.

I want the American government to stop wasting money and fix its debt as well as stop infringing on the rights of the citizenry.

What somebody wants to put in their own body is their business.

Right.  Becuase who cares about people.  Stupid waste of land and rescources...

[SandTrout]

Right. Becuase who cares about people. Stupid waste of land and rescources...

Everyone works for them selves, or nobody works for anyone. If the Mexicans will not solve their own problems, then I'm sure as hell not wasting my resources.

That is really off topic though.