3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Ugh...I think people shouldn't be allowed to bring up the big 3 when they talk about Cerberus' successes,without lazarus they would have come up with a clever way to introduce you to Cerberus and the collectors it was the quick and easy way. Big deal,they rebuilt a ship they helped make in the first place. I admit EDI was the only thing they manage to not screw up.

But none of those 3 had a major negative,other then the game not being able to take place as we know it.

So..those should not be taken into acount because they are plot devices, necessary to keep  the story going?

Prey tell, what are orverlord, repaer IFF and all the others then? Same thing. If Cerberus had a 100% sucess in those instance,s the game would also not be able to take place as we know it.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

They aren't credible for judging Cerberus' competence.

Unless you want to count,lazarus nearly failing,and Shepard and EDI going rogue...

So I'll just keep those neutral.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 04 août 2011 - 07:49 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Cerbies unite!

Go forth and make sure we'll be able to order that Cerberus polo, instead of another N7 one.

Join me, brothers and sisters! Well, sister...

[Sebby]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The good things Cerberus have done hardly outweighs the bad ones.

So now you're admitting Cerberus has done good work. There's hope for you yet!

[Someone With Mass]

Seboist wrote...

So now you're admitting Cerberus has done good work. There's hope for you yet!

EDI. That's the only good thing.

[Pulletlamer]

Seboist wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

The good things Cerberus have done hardly outweighs the bad ones.

So now you're admitting Cerberus has done good work. There's hope for you yet!

The only good they've done was bringing back Shepard. Apart from that, it's just been either morally debatable experiments or criminal/terrorist records.

So yeah, the cons outweigh the good one.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 04 août 2011 - 08:00 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Shep dies=Lazarus fail no?

[Pulletlamer]

HomelessGal wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Shep dies=Lazarus fail no?

Well, what part of Lazarus nearly killed Shepard? An outside source tried to sabotage the project, that's not the same as the project itself failing. Lazarus was rather....miraculous, all things considered.

Still if Shepard dies it would've been a failure, independently from external sources or not.

TIM should have also been enough cautious when selecting the operatives for the experiment.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

HomelessGal wrote...
rather....miraculous, all things considered.

Could be said of most if not all of Cerberus' "successes"

I  can't afford to babysit Cerberus while trying to save the galaxy.


and fighting them.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 04 août 2011 - 08:09 .

[The Elder King]

Pulletlamer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

The good things Cerberus have done hardly outweighs the bad ones.

So now you're admitting Cerberus has done good work. There's hope for you yet!

The only good they've done was bringing back Shepard. Apart from that, it's just been either morally debatable experiments or criminal/terrorist records.

So yeah, the cons outweigh the good one.

EDI.
Not that I care much about Cerberus, but the three major organizations that "support" Shepard in the previous games (Alliance, Council and Cerberus) have done some idiotic things. What organization sent bombs in the other species's space?
I'm not fond of Cerberus but the Alliance isn't completely good (other than the fact that the high rankings are a bunch of hypocrities that  turned down Shepard and his/her word after his/her death) . Not to mention the idiotic trio (or quartet, depending on who is the human councilor).

Modifié par hhh89, 04 août 2011 - 08:10 .

[Pulletlamer]

hhh89 wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

The good things Cerberus have done hardly outweighs the bad ones.

So now you're admitting Cerberus has done good work. There's hope for you yet!

The only good they've done was bringing back Shepard. Apart from that, it's just been either morally debatable experiments or criminal/terrorist records.

So yeah, the cons outweigh the good one.

EDI.
Not that I care much about Cerberus, but the three major organizations that "support" Shepard in the previous games (Alliance, Council and Cerberus) have done some idiotic things. What organization sent bombs in the other species's space?
I'm not fond of Cerberus but the Alliance isn't that good (other than the fact that the high rankings are a bunch of hypocrities that  turned down Shepard and his/her word after his/her death) . Not to mention the idiotic trio (or quartet, depending on who is the human councilor).

Still EDI is part of the Normandy, and the Normandy was rebuilt for Shepard. Same as Joker, Chawkas, etc etc were brought back for Shepard. So it's all in bringing back Shepard's package.

If Shepard wasn't revived EDI would have no purpose (well I'm sure Cerberus would have used it anyway, but he was specifically built for the Normandy and Shepard to aid him against the Collectors). The main goal of Cerberus (in ME2) was bringing back Shepard. EDI and the Normandy are just additives to the good thing they did: Bring back Shepard.

Still I'm bnot saying the Council or the Alliance is any better. The Alliance has been involved on very nasty things too. Like illegal AI experminets.

And the Council? It isn't any better. I believe each race looks for their own interest in the end, but tI'm sure they put aside their differences when dealing with humans and Shepard.

That's why I wouldn't have given the Base to anyone. Was it Cerberus. Alliance or Council, since I consider no one deserves it, and the more responsible choice (and for maintaing more or less equality in power) is blowing it up.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 04 août 2011 - 08:17 .

[The Elder King]

Pulletlamer wrote...


Still EDI is part of the Normandy, and the Normandy was rebuilt for Shepard. Same as Joker, Chawkas, etc etc were brought back for Shepard. So it's all in bringing back Shepard's package.

If Shepard wasn't revived EDI would have no purpose (well I'm sure Cerberus would have used it anyway, but he was specifically built for the Normandy and Shepard to aid him against the Collectors). The main goal of Cerberus (in ME2) was bringing back Shepard. EDI and the Normandy are just additives to the good thing they did: Bring back Shepard.

EDI wasn't a necessary thing to create. They wanted to give Shepard the  best ship he could have, and that is the SR-2. But creating an AI isn't as simple as building the SR.2 (despite the enormous quantity of money involved). They had already the blueprints of the SR-1, and they had the money to build it. EDI is a thing that they created from nothing, using Reaper tech. They succeded in creating an AI that was almost vital in Shepard's mission. It's not an addition to their main good thing that they did (bringing back Shepard), it's a different major success. Or at least a partial success, since now, it goes against them.

[SpiffySquee]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

STRYFEDX wrote...

I could see keeping it if I wasn't handing it over to a group that is as epic fail as Cerberus. Every other mission either killing them cause they went rogue or killing them cause they were corrupted or killing something they made that went crazy and killed them.

My Shepard was saving himself a trip back in 6 months when they make or find something that kills them all, Heck in game name one time that everything went right in Cerberus plan.

Hm....EDI? Normandy mk2? Lazarus? Horizon lure? Collector trap? Suicide Mission?

I'm not giving you the collector trap and SM because those were only successful because of Shepard's skill and leadership (not Cerberus), but I will give you the others.

However,
Husk experiments gone wrong in ME1, Creeper experiments gone wrong in ME1, Rachni experiments gone wrong in ME1, Tomes, The attack on the Idena, Paul Greyson, Overlord, The Derelict reaper.

So you want to give the collector base to someone who has a 70% chance of screwing it up?

[Someone With Mass]

And you're potentially handling over a virus that has only one purpose to a bunch of extremists that would more than likely think that it's perfect for their goals.

[Pulletlamer]

hhh89 wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...


Still EDI is part of the Normandy, and the Normandy was rebuilt for Shepard. Same as Joker, Chawkas, etc etc were brought back for Shepard. So it's all in bringing back Shepard's package.

If Shepard wasn't revived EDI would have no purpose (well I'm sure Cerberus would have used it anyway, but he was specifically built for the Normandy and Shepard to aid him against the Collectors). The main goal of Cerberus (in ME2) was bringing back Shepard. EDI and the Normandy are just additives to the good thing they did: Bring back Shepard.

EDI wasn't a necessary thing to create. They wanted to give Shepard the  best ship he could have, and that is the SR-2. But creating an AI isn't as simple as building the SR.2 (despite the enormous quantity of money involved). They had already the blueprints of the SR-1, and they had the money to build it. EDI is a thing that they created from nothing, using Reaper tech. They succeded in creating an AI that was almost vital in Shepard's mission. It's not an addition to their main good thing that they did (bringing back Shepard), it's a different major success. Or at least a partial success, since now, it goes against them.

Well yes. The original Normandy didn't have an AI. I could agree creating an AI is achieving a succes on it's own.

But it's not necessarily a good (by good I mean morally good) thing if you look at it abstractically. It could have been created as an "evil" AI and it would have still been a success on it's own.

But yes, I guess we could say adding EDI to the Normandy was a "good" thing. Ironically, it wasn't so good for Cerberus, it was good for Shepard.

So conclusion is creating an AI is a success. The good thing is they actually created that AI to aid Shepard.

Still, it's two good things they've done against a tragical record.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Tricia Helfer was just on Franklin & Bash,and I have come to the conclusion that you can never have too much Tricia Helfer.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

They aren't credible for judging Cerberus' competence.

Unless you want to count,lazarus nearly failing,and Shepard and EDI going rogue...

So I'll just keep those neutral.

Lazarus was success.
Treason does not count as experiment faliure. Neither does Shepard (potentially) going rouge.

And they aren't credible for judging Cerberus ses competence? Again..sez who?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

They aren't credible for judging Cerberus' competence.

Unless you want to count,lazarus nearly failing,and Shepard and EDI going rogue...

So I'll just keep those neutral.

Lazarus was success.
Treason does not count as experiment faliure. Neither does Shepard (potentially) going rouge.

And they aren't credible for judging Cerberus ses competence? Again..sez who?

I don't know how to adress you without speaking to you like you're a child.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Pulletlamer wrote...

Still EDI is part of the Normandy, and the Normandy was rebuilt for Shepard. Same as Joker, Chawkas, etc etc were brought back for Shepard. So it's all in bringing back Shepard's package.

If Shepard wasn't revived EDI would have no purpose (well I'm sure Cerberus would have used it anyway, but he was specifically built for the Normandy and Shepard to aid him against the Collectors). The main goal of Cerberus (in ME2) was bringing back Shepard. EDI and the Normandy are just additives to the good thing they did: Bring back Shepard.

Still I'm bnot saying the Council or the Alliance is any better. The Alliance has been involved on very nasty things too. Like illegal AI experminets.

And the Council? It isn't any better. I believe each race looks for their own interest in the end, but tI'm sure they put aside their differences when dealing with humans and Shepard.

That's why I wouldn't have given the Base to anyone. Was it Cerberus. Alliance or Council, since I consider no one deserves it, and the more responsible choice (and for maintaing more or less equality in power) is blowing it up.

Ha! So you want to put all Cerberus sucesses under one blanket so you can dismiss everything ? Wont' work. No go.

Shep revived sucesfully = SUCCESS. If he ends up dying on the mission, the experiment (re-viving Sheppard) itself is still a sucess.

EDI and Normandy Mk2 are both things that were given to Shep to use, but Cerberus would make good use of htem anyway. No, not faliures.

And what about all the other actions Cerberus performed? The biotic experiment? The assaionations? Infiltrations? Prety muhc all were successes.

so no.



And no to the last part too. Blowing the bese is NOT a responsible choice. You have a responsibiltiy to the entire galaxy to find  some way to stop the reapers.
A responsibiltiy to which you turned your back on.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Blowing the bese is NOT a responsible choice. You have a responsibiltiy to the entire galaxy to find  some way to stop the reapers.
A responsibiltiy to which you turned your back on.

Because the way to be responsible is to help start an entire series of Cerberus projects and experiments?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Blowing the bese is NOT a responsible choice. You have a responsibiltiy to the entire galaxy to find  some way to stop the reapers.
A responsibiltiy to which you turned your back on.

Because the way to be responsible is to help start an entire series of Cerberus projects and experiments?

Apparently.

[Pulletlamer]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

Still EDI is part of the Normandy, and the Normandy was rebuilt for Shepard. Same as Joker, Chawkas, etc etc were brought back for Shepard. So it's all in bringing back Shepard's package.

If Shepard wasn't revived EDI would have no purpose (well I'm sure Cerberus would have used it anyway, but he was specifically built for the Normandy and Shepard to aid him against the Collectors). The main goal of Cerberus (in ME2) was bringing back Shepard. EDI and the Normandy are just additives to the good thing they did: Bring back Shepard.

Still I'm bnot saying the Council or the Alliance is any better. The Alliance has been involved on very nasty things too. Like illegal AI experminets.

And the Council? It isn't any better. I believe each race looks for their own interest in the end, but tI'm sure they put aside their differences when dealing with humans and Shepard.

That's why I wouldn't have given the Base to anyone. Was it Cerberus. Alliance or Council, since I consider no one deserves it, and the more responsible choice (and for maintaing more or less equality in power) is blowing it up.

Ha! So you want to put all Cerberus sucesses under one blanket so you can dismiss everything ? Wont' work. No go.

Shep revived sucesfully = SUCCESS. If he ends up dying on the mission, the experiment (re-viving Sheppard) itself is still a sucess.

EDI and Normandy Mk2 are both things that were given to Shep to use, but Cerberus would make good use of htem anyway. No, not faliures.

And what about all the other actions Cerberus performed? The biotic experiment? The assaionations? Infiltrations? Prety muhc all were successes.

so no.



And no to the last part too. Blowing the bese is NOT a responsible choice. You have a responsibiltiy to the entire galaxy to find  some way to stop the reapers.
A responsibiltiy to which you turned your back on.

First. It's Normandy SR2. This is MK2 armor: http://wh40k.lexican...usade_Armour.22

What I meant is that if Shepard had died at some point before being revived, by Wilson or whoever, the experiment woulkd have been a failure and it nearly was, since Wilson almost killed Shepard.

I'm not saying EDI or the Normandy are failures. Just saying they were built for Shepard. Wich means, if Shepard couldn't have been revived succesfully, they had no purpose.

Explain me what successes they've done besides bringing back Shepard and the Normandy + EDI?

All their experiments ended with the crew/scientist killed, something going wrong, or Shepard having to go to solve the problem (like Derelict Reaper, Overlord and Teltin Facility). Don't forget about the rachni and thorian creeper experiments too.

And after ME2 the things look nearly ad bad is not worse. Paul Grayson implanted with Reaper tech and breaking free, Omega being overrun by husks....

Plenty of success there.

And yes, destroying the base is responsible. If you had two childs who are always fighting, the responsible choice is punishing both, not giving one a stick and saying: Go ahead!! Fight!

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 04 août 2011 - 10:34 .