3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
That would be a compelling argument - if we had weapons that worked reliably against the Reapers. Hey, it would be an argument, though less compelling, if we had any weapons that worked against the Reapers AT ALL!

That would imply we couldn't kill sovvy,but umm...we did.

And how did we kill it?
Did the barrage of 2 fleets overwhelm his shields? Or was it a tactical blunder and Saren-puppet going kablooie?

What was the cost?
Can we afford 2 fleets for every reaper? Not even close.

At this point we're not even sure we can hurt it.

Now before peopel start bringing in the Thanix cannon, note that from the in-game codex, the Tanix cannon gives the Normandy (frigate) the firepower of a cruiser.
And not that Sovy was under bombardent by cruisers (and IIRC, a DN or two) and it seemed to do very little.

Which begs the question why is the Collector ship so pathetic, but more importnatly, it ilustrates that we stand almsot no chance whatsoever.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You still think Cerberus watns to kill off all other aliens? Thats a load of bull.

Yeah. It's more than likely a necessity to achieve dominance over other species by killing a lot of them and weaken their infrastructures.

And still. It's a very dangerous biological weapon.

No, it's not a necessity and there's nothing even hinting at that.
The Cerberus operative Shep met in ME2 are all alien-friendly. TIM himself shows no alien hate.

Well,how does one establish human dominance?

With strength.
Political, economical, cultural or military strength.

[goofyomnivore]

Which begs the question why is the Collector ship so pathetic

I assume because it is more of a transport ship than a warship. All of it's engagements are done with surprise and disabling the enemy not raw strength. EDI really owns them hard.

[Aeowyn]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
That would be a compelling argument - if we had weapons that worked reliably against the Reapers. Hey, it would be an argument, though less compelling, if we had any weapons that worked against the Reapers AT ALL!

That would imply we couldn't kill sovvy,but umm...we did.

And we lost half our fleet and the majority of the turian ships that were patrolling the Citadel in the process. And that was for ONE Reaper. How exactly would we be able to defeat several hundred Reapers in the same way?

[Massadonious1]

Aeowyn wrote...
 How exactly would we be able to defeat several hundred Reapers in the same way?

With half a baby Reaper and seeker swarms, duh.

Anything else the base can provide besides those two things is speculating at this point.

And besides, it's likely you're going to need "numbers" regardless. They're not all going to cower back to darkspace because you made some scientific breakthrough.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

strive wrote...

That would imply we couldn't kill sovvy,but umm...we did.

We killed one Reaper surrounded and alone. I don't think we will be able to replicate that situation consistently.

She clearly said our weapons didn't work at all,I pointed at that they did,however insignificantly they did is irrelevant,her statement is invalid.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You still think Cerberus watns to kill off all other aliens? Thats a load of bull.

Yeah. It's more than likely a necessity to achieve dominance over other species by killing a lot of them and weaken their infrastructures.

And still. It's a very dangerous biological weapon.

No, it's not a necessity and there's nothing even hinting at that.
The Cerberus operative Shep met in ME2 are all alien-friendly. TIM himself shows no alien hate.

Well,how does one establish human dominance?

With strength.
Political, economical, cultural or military strength.

So Cerberus isn't big enough to impact the rest of the galaxy AND they are big enough to influence the galaxy...gotcha.

[Barquiel]

Aeowyn wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
That would be a compelling argument - if we had weapons that worked reliably against the Reapers. Hey, it would be an argument, though less compelling, if we had any weapons that worked against the Reapers AT ALL!

That would imply we couldn't kill sovvy,but umm...we did.

And we lost half our fleet and the majority of the turian ships that were patrolling the Citadel in the process. And that was for ONE Reaper. How exactly would we be able to defeat several hundred Reapers in the same way?

Shepard says that 8 alliance cruisers were lost in Sovereign's attack on the Citadel (paragon outcome), and we know some of these ships were destroyed by the geth.

-> Sovereign destroyed 4-5 alliance cruisers and one turian cruiser...that's not half of our fleet.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Edit: Oh wait, that wasn't a reply to me.

Note to self: stay away from BSN after 30 hours of not sleeping.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 05 août 2011 - 09:13 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

8 cruisers were lost saving the Destiny Ascension. That doesn't say how many others were lost in the rest of the battle.

So...neither side knows....so....you can't say "we just got our asses kicked pal" because it is speculation.

[The Elder King]

Saphra Deden wrote...

8 cruisers were lost saving the Destiny Ascension. That doesn't say how many others were lost in the rest of the battle.

I agree with you. It's the only possible reason to explain what it's said in ME2 that the Alliance lost considerable force during the battle, and that can coexist with what Shepard said to the  journalist.
Anyway, I have a question about the Alliance fleets. The fleet that attacked the Geth and the Sovereign is the Fifth Fleet, right? Shouldn't the Alliance has at least other 4 fleet (I remember reading somewhere that a First Fleet exists).

edit: yes, the Alliance Navy has at least three fleets, the First, the Second and the Fifth, and only the latter fought in the Battle of the Citadel. Even if the Fifth Fleet was half-destroyed, they got other fleets.They shouldn't have lost half of their military power in ME.

Modifié par hhh89, 05 août 2011 - 09:22 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

hhh89 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

8 cruisers were lost saving the Destiny Ascension. That doesn't say how many others were lost in the rest of the battle.

I agree with you. It's the only possible reason to explain what it's said in ME2 that the Alliance lost considerable force during the battle, and that can coexist with what Shepard said to the  journalist.
Anyway, I have a question about the Alliance fleets. The fleet that attacked the Geth and the Sovereign is the Fifth Fleet, right? Shouldn't the Alliance has at least other 4 fleet (I remember reading somewhere that a First Fleet exists).

The ones we know of are 1st,2nd,and 5th

[The Elder King]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

8 cruisers were lost saving the Destiny Ascension. That doesn't say how many others were lost in the rest of the battle.

I agree with you. It's the only possible reason to explain what it's said in ME2 that the Alliance lost considerable force during the battle, and that can coexist with what Shepard said to the  journalist.
Anyway, I have a question about the Alliance fleets. The fleet that attacked the Geth and the Sovereign is the Fifth Fleet, right? Shouldn't the Alliance has at least other 4 fleet (I remember reading somewhere that a First Fleet exists).

The ones we know of are 1st,2nd,and 5th

Yes, I found it. But the Alliance probably has even a 3rd and a 4th fleets. They have still considerable military power even with the possible half-loss of the 5th.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

With strength.
Political, economical, cultural or military strength.

So Cerberus isn't big enough to impact the rest of the galaxy AND they are big enough to influence the galaxy...gotcha.

Huh?
Cerberus is in position to strengthen the SA by feeding it intel and tech. Thus stregthening humanity in the process.

It's not in a position to wage war or take over.

[goofyomnivore]

She clearly said our weapons didn't work at all,I pointed at that they did,however insignificantly they did is irrelevant,her statement is invalid.

I didn't deny they didn't work. I pointed out the circumstances that they did work under were unique, and not a good indication of effectiveness, even insignificant effectiveness. Heck the only way we may of penetrated Sovereign was through Saren's defeat. Although I don't really buy that theory. I don't think we can claim our weapons prevailed based off our own doing. I think it was more or so Sovereign's failure. But technically yes they did work, but I wouldn't bank on them working again.

Modifié par strive, 05 août 2011 - 09:31 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

hhh89 wrote...

Yes, I found it. But the Alliance probably has even a 3rd and a 4th fleets. They have still considerable military power even with the possible half-loss of the 5th.

Not neccessarily,The USN uses 2nd,3rd,5th,6th.7th and 10th,and They seem to be a pretty well oiled machine...(cough cough)
But considering this is in essence humanities collective navy im sure they have more then 3.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 05 août 2011 - 09:29 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

8 cruisers were lost saving the Destiny Ascension. That doesn't say how many others were lost in the rest of the battle.

So...neither side knows....so....you can't say "we just got our asses kicked pal" because it is speculation.

I can tell you what is not a speculation.


Sovy cutting a cruiser in half with one hit. (IIRC, we can see him taking out 3-4 cruisers that way)
A fleet pounding at it with seemingly little effect.
Sovereing not moving or evading.

Do you even need numbers after seeing that?

[The Elder King]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Yes, I found it. But the Alliance probably has even a 3rd and a 4th fleets. They have still considerable military power even with the possible half-loss of the 5th.

Not neccessarily,The USN uses 2nd,3rd,5th,6th.7th and 10th,and They seem to be a pretty well oiled machine...(cough cough)

Ok, thank you. It could be possible.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

strive wrote...

She clearly said our weapons didn't work at all,I pointed at that they did,however insignificantly they did is irrelevant,her statement is invalid.

I didn't deny they didn't work. I pointed out the circumstances that they did work under were unique, and not a good indication of effectiveness, even insignificant effectiveness. Heck the only way we may of penetrated Sovereign was through Saren's defeat. Although I don't really buy that theory. I don't think we can claim our weapons prevailed based off our own doing. I think it was more or so Sovereign's failure.

If I throw a rock at your head and it hits your temple and knocks you out,it was effective,regardless of whether or not I could do it again,but I have reason to beleive throwing a rock at your head will be effective the next time I do.

David VS Goliath.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

hhh89 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Yes, I found it. But the Alliance probably has even a 3rd and a 4th fleets. They have still considerable military power even with the possible half-loss of the 5th.

Not neccessarily,The USN uses 2nd,3rd,5th,6th.7th and 10th,and They seem to be a pretty well oiled machine...(cough cough)

Ok, thank you. It could be possible.

I revised my post plz read revisions.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

strive wrote...

She clearly said our weapons didn't work at all,I pointed at that they did,however insignificantly they did is irrelevant,her statement is invalid.

I didn't deny they didn't work. I pointed out the circumstances that they did work under were unique, and not a good indication of effectiveness, even insignificant effectiveness. Heck the only way we may of penetrated Sovereign was through Saren's defeat. Although I don't really buy that theory. I don't think we can claim our weapons prevailed based off our own doing. I think it was more or so Sovereign's failure.

If I throw a rock at your head and it hits your temple and knocks you out,it was effective,regardless of whether or not I could do it again,but I have reason to beleive throwing a rock at your head will be effective the next time I do.

David VS Goliath.

That would only work if you could repliacte the conditions..Which you can't.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

strive wrote...

She clearly said our weapons didn't work at all,I pointed at that they did,however insignificantly they did is irrelevant,her statement is invalid.

I didn't deny they didn't work. I pointed out the circumstances that they did work under were unique, and not a good indication of effectiveness, even insignificant effectiveness. Heck the only way we may of penetrated Sovereign was through Saren's defeat. Although I don't really buy that theory. I don't think we can claim our weapons prevailed based off our own doing. I think it was more or so Sovereign's failure.

If I throw a rock at your head and it hits your temple and knocks you out,it was effective,regardless of whether or not I could do it again,but I have reason to beleive throwing a rock at your head will be effective the next time I do.

David VS Goliath.

That would only work if you could repliacte the conditions..Which you can't.

Which is why I now posess a bigger rock.(Thanix)