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[The Elder King]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

hhh89 wrote...


Ok, thank you. It could be possible.

I revised my post plz read revisions.

I saw it. We should wait and see if something will be mentioned in this regard in ME3, or ask a dev about it.
About the Alliance fleets, it's possible that on the Reaper attack to Earth in ME3 the Alliance lost his 1st fleet, since this was the fleet that has the role to ptrotect Earth. So maybe the Alliance doesn't lose all of his warships on Earth.

[Aeowyn]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

And we lost half our fleet and the majority of the turian ships that were patrolling the Citadel in the process. And that was for ONE Reaper. How exactly would we be able to defeat several hundred Reapers in the same way?

I've been told that the battle against Sovereign is not a good indicator of how we may fare against the rest of the Reaper fleet.

Is that so?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Aeowyn wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...



I've been told that the battle against Sovereign is not a good indicator of how we may fare against the rest of the Reaper fleet.

Is that so?

Multiple times infact,by multiple people.

[goofyomnivore]

If I throw a rock at your head and it hits your temple and knocks you out,it was effective,regardless of whether or not I could do it again,but I have reason to beleive throwing a rock at your head will be effective the next time I do.

I added this "But technically yes they did work, but I wouldn't bank on them working again." in a edit very near to when you replied. Basically what Lotion said.

Which is why I now posess a bigger rock.(Thanix)

Why not try and get Goliath's weapon/defense/advantage? If you put up a fight with a rock imagine what you can do with comparable odds.

Modifié par strive, 05 août 2011 - 09:48 .

[Ieldra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And no, hoping to defet the reapers with the help of hte CB is not wishful lthinking. It's the most rational move avilable. Shep IS desperate..or at elast should be if he has any brains. The reapers are coming. We have no way to really defeat them. yoiu got nothing. Sehp spent all the time after ME1 searching for something...anything.

Then a treasure throve of knowledge falls into your lap. And you blow it up.

Why? Because TIM might be bad man and because possible human dominance is far worse that total galactic extinction:whistle:

xcuse me while I drop to the floor, laughing..and clutching my head in disbelief in the process.

This.

The only REAL risk you take by keeping the base is that the base in the hands of Cerberus will somehow help the Reapers more than it helps us (I've dealt with that argument before - the risk is low because of the power asymmetry: what gives a big boost to us won't mean a lot compare to what the Reapers already have).

Everything else  DOES NOT MATTER. TIM's poltical goals? Don't matter. The ethics of Cerberus' experiments. Don't matter. The primary objective - the ONLY objective at this point - is to defeat the Reapers. Nothing can come in the way of that goal, or we might all end up dead. So I'm going to keep the base and worry about the consequences beyond the effect on the war after it is won.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

strive wrote...

She clearly said our weapons didn't work at all,I pointed at that they did,however insignificantly they did is irrelevant,her statement is invalid.

I didn't deny they didn't work. I pointed out the circumstances that they did work under were unique, and not a good indication of effectiveness, even insignificant effectiveness. Heck the only way we may of penetrated Sovereign was through Saren's defeat. Although I don't really buy that theory. I don't think we can claim our weapons prevailed based off our own doing. I think it was more or so Sovereign's failure.

If I throw a rock at your head and it hits your temple and knocks you out,it was effective,regardless of whether or not I could do it again,but I have reason to beleive throwing a rock at your head will be effective the next time I do.

David VS Goliath.

That would only work if you could repliacte the conditions..Which you can't.

Which is why I now posess a bigger rock.(Thanix)

Given that you don't even know if the rock is what did the trick in the first place...and given that the bigger rock is not that much bigger....
(remeber. Thanix on Normady mk2 = firepower of a cruiser. And Sovy too on multiple cruiser and DN's)

Not to say that it doesn't help..But you should be going after even bigger rocks. And swords. And armors.

[Lotion Soronarr]

wiggles89 wrote...

Which is why I now posess a bigger rock.(Thanix)

Reaper tech was used to create the Thanix, so...I've no idea what you're going for with this example. If anything the effectiveness of the Thanix Cannon is an argument for preserving the CB.

pshh....don't use common sesne. You'll scare some "debaters" here away!

[Barquiel]

wiggles89 wrote...

Which is why I now posess a bigger rock.(Thanix)

 If anything the effectiveness of the Thanix Cannon is an argument for preserving the CB.

No, it's not (unless you think the turians use a human smoothie machine to produce Thanix cannons)

[SandTrout]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Reaper tech being reverse engineered and improving our offensive firepower is not an example of how Reaper tech can be reverse engineered to help us.

That's stupid.

Now you're just trolling.

[Ieldra]

SandTrout wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Reaper tech being reverse engineered and improving our offensive firepower is not an example of how Reaper tech can be reverse engineered to help us.

That's stupid.

Now you're just trolling.

Actually, no, the conclusion is rational. You're all too stuck up on weapons or fighting. What we really need is knowledge about the Reapers' internal structure and functionality. Possible weaknesses to exploit, including but not limited to combat-related stuff: achilles heels, motivations we could twist when communicating with them, material dependencies, details on how indoctrination works to that we can create defenses, all kinds of stuff actually. Every bit we come to know about the Reapers themselves has a chance of helping us. 

Exactly that is why the Collector base is important. It was made to build a Reaper, it must have some of that information. Better weapons are just a beneficial side effect.  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 août 2011 - 11:01 .

[Aeowyn]

SandTrout wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Reaper tech being reverse engineered and improving our offensive firepower is not an example of how Reaper tech can be reverse engineered to help us.

That's stupid.

Now you're just trolling.

Sarcasm I believe.

[Lotion Soronarr]

SandTrout wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Reaper tech being reverse engineered and improving our offensive firepower is not an example of how Reaper tech can be reverse engineered to help us.

That's stupid.

Now you're just trolling.

But she is correct.

Reaper tech is reaper tech is reaper tech.
Researching repeer tech = knowledge = advantage.

[Arijharn]

Preserving the CB, no matter what risks that may bring about in relation to Cerberus, is necessary considering the current climate (i.e, utter extinction) at the hands of the Reapers, it's only meta-gaming in it's purist form that allows anybody think otherwise, because we are no closer to technological parity with the Reapers without it... and technology is one of the cornerstones we'll need in order to defeat the Reapers, coupled with information which the CB also provides. Therefore it's, without to much preamble, necessary to hold on to the technology found within, if for no other reason so that it can provide a further data sample in addition to any remains/plans stripped from Sov's remains or even that mystical data slate at the end of ME2.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You still think Cerberus watns to kill off all other aliens? Thats a load of bull.

Yeah. It's more than likely a necessity to achieve dominance over other species by killing a lot of them and weaken their infrastructures.

And still. It's a very dangerous biological weapon.

No, it's not a necessity and there's nothing even hinting at that.
The Cerberus operative Shep met in ME2 are all alien-friendly. TIM himself shows no alien hate.

Gee, I wonder why that might be. 

Could it be because they're trying to get on Shepard's good side, so they can use him/her as their personal janitor when things goes to hell? 

Or maybe because Shepard might be more comfortable to not work with blatant racists?

[Someone With Mass]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Actually, no, the conclusion is rational. You're all too stuck up on weapons or fighting. What we really need is knowledge about the Reapers' internal structure and functionality. Possible weaknesses to exploit, including but not limited to combat-related stuff: achilles heels, motivations we could twist when communicating with them, material dependencies, details on how indoctrination works to that we can create defenses, all kinds of stuff actually. Every bit we come to know about the Reapers themselves has a chance of helping us. 

Exactly that is why the Collector base is important. It was made to build a Reaper, it must have some of that information. Better weapons are just a beneficial side effect.  

In that case, Cerberus had something that was even better than the Collector base, alas, they let that one fall into enemy hands and shortly after that into a brown dwarf.

So...why should I give the base to those incompetent assclowns, when they can salvage the remains and not jeopardize the safety of themselves and the galaxy that way?

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Or maybe because Shepard might be more comfortable to not work with blatant racists?

Don't know why that would be the case. My Shepard has always shown his dedication to the cause. 

[jtav]

Given how Shepard and others react, I feel like I'm missing a line where TIM says he's going to pulp humans. Because empowering terrorists is bad, but it's hardly the crime against nature keeping the base is portrayed as. History is full of strange bedfellow situations, and Cerberus is the only group that cares about the Reapers.

And if keeping the base is immoral because of what was done there, then using the genophage cure is also wrong because the experiments were basically torture.

[TMA LIVE]

On the topic of gaining blueprints on Reapers for weakness and such, don't we already get that anyways? Because it seems pretty likely we got that regardless of what you do with the base, judging by the image on the datapad.

[TMA LIVE]

Seems like we get blue prints regardless.

[marshalleck]

TMA LIVE wrote...



Seems like we get blue prints regardless.

Yes, and it seems like Cerberus get access to whatever tech is on the base as well, regardless of keeping it or blowing it up.

[TMA LIVE]

Well, as long as Cerberus doesn't get enough tech to be an even bigger problem, I got no complaints.