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[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You still think Cerberus watns to kill off all other aliens? Thats a load of bull.

Yeah. It's more than likely a necessity to achieve dominance over other species by killing a lot of them and weaken their infrastructures.

And still. It's a very dangerous biological weapon.

No, it's not a necessity and there's nothing even hinting at that.
The Cerberus operative Shep met in ME2 are all alien-friendly. TIM himself shows no alien hate.

Gee, I wonder why that might be. 

Could it be because they're trying to get on Shepard's good side, so they can use him/her as their personal janitor when things goes to hell? 

Or maybe because Shepard might be more comfortable to not work with blatant racists?

You and your conspiracy theories.

You know, I can say that about anyone. ANYONE IN THE GAME.

If you have some actual proof, give it. If not, then you base your conclusions not on what the game shows you, but what it doesn't... which is a fallacy.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TMA LIVE wrote...



Seems like we get blue prints regardless.

Image  DOES NOT EQUAL blueprints.
What you see there may very well be a profile of your average reaper..or hell, that might be Sovy.

[TMA LIVE]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...



Seems like we get blue prints regardless.

Image  DOES NOT EQUAL blueprints.
What you see there may very well be a profile of your average reaper..or hell, that might be Sovy.

I doubt getting Sov's facebook page would matter to Commander Shepard. Nor Collectors keeping profiles, and Shepard gaining knowledge on the dead one. We got images from the front, side, and back. Seems like we gained some data on Reapers.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 05 août 2011 - 12:27 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

In that case, Cerberus had something that was even better than the Collector base, alas, they let that one fall into enemy hands and shortly after that into a brown dwarf.

So...why should I give the base to those incompetent assclowns, when they can salvage the remains and not jeopardize the safety of themselves and the galaxy that way?

Again with that?

Due, Shep's the blame for the destruction of the reaper. SHEP.

Cerb can send more scientists and equipment over...or should I say..could have. If not for Shep.
And the scientists that came aboard DID complete their mission.

so again..you fail.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...



Seems like we get blue prints regardless.

Image  DOES NOT EQUAL blueprints.
What you see there may very well be a profile of your average reaper..or hell, that might be Sovy.

I doubt getting Sov's facebook page would matter to Commander Shepard. Nor Collectors keeping profiles. We got images from the front, side, and back. Seems like we gained some data on Reapers.

Unless you got detail information about the internals, and every divice, nut and bolt..then it's not a blueprint.

[TMA LIVE]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

In that case, Cerberus had something that was even better than the Collector base, alas, they let that one fall into enemy hands and shortly after that into a brown dwarf.

So...why should I give the base to those incompetent assclowns, when they can salvage the remains and not jeopardize the safety of themselves and the galaxy that way?

Again with that?

Due, Shep's the blame for the destruction of the reaper. SHEP.

Cerb can send more scientists and equipment over...or should I say..could have. If not for Shep.
And the scientists that came aboard DID complete their mission.

so again..you fail.

That ended up being a trap setup by the Reapers, with a virus and all. Plus, if Cerberus really wanted to keep the Reaper to be salvage, they wouldn't have lefted it near a brown dwarf, and had it depend on it taking care of itself. And if Shepard setoff the barrier by going on board, then another group of scientist would have done the same when they boarded. (though why this didn't happen with Legion, or when the scientists first arrived is, I guess, is another plothole).

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 05 août 2011 - 12:39 .

[TMA LIVE]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...



Seems like we get blue prints regardless.

Image  DOES NOT EQUAL blueprints.
What you see there may very well be a profile of your average reaper..or hell, that might be Sovy.

I doubt getting Sov's facebook page would matter to Commander Shepard. Nor Collectors keeping profiles. We got images from the front, side, and back. Seems like we gained some data on Reapers.

Unless you got detail information about the internals, and every divice, nut and bolt..then it's not a blueprint.

From Bioware trying to show you something from a glance, and using pictures to give you an idea, I'm pretty sure it is. After all, I doubt anyone would get an idea of what the datapad represented with just lines of data, and nothing else. Clearly it's something that matters, and something to do with Reapers, from all sides.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 05 août 2011 - 12:44 .

[goofyomnivore]

they wouldn't have lefted it near a brown dwarf,

I don't think it was moveable, or at the very least not feasible without great cost/risk.

As for the "blueprints" EDI data mined the base. I don't even think EDI fully knows what she is getting until she scrubs through it. I was expecting information regardless of my choice. The "blueprints" are something to consider though. It might be the Paragon equiv of "scraps" like Cerberus gets if you blow up the base, while keeping the base yields those plus other advantages.

You're all too stuck up on weapons or fighting.

It was the current direction of the topic which sprung from a debate about Sovereign's power. I think most people (at least I do) agree that the insight/information heavily outweighs the potential weaponry/defenses.

Modifié par strive, 05 août 2011 - 12:53 .

[Goneaviking]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Reaper tech being reverse engineered and improving our offensive firepower is not an example of how Reaper tech can be reverse engineered to help us.

That's stupid.

Now you're just trolling.

But she is correct.

Reaper tech is reaper tech is reaper tech.
Researching repeer tech = knowledge = advantage.

The thanix cannon was developed from smashed up pieces of Sovereign, turning it to rubble probably did something to disable the indoctrination signal that Sovereign was known to give off and making it a lot safer to research.

The collector base intact may have been instrumental in keeping an entire species indoctrinated (we have no way of knowing for sure), blowing it up leaves lots of parts for Cerberus to examine with reduced risk of indoctrination. The dead reaper demonstrated that merely rendering it inactive is no sure protection against being turned.

Destroy Collector Base = reaper tech for research = reduced chance of indoctrinated scientists = advantage

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Again with that?

Due, Shep's the blame for the destruction of the reaper. SHEP.

Cerb can send more scientists and equipment over...or should I say..could have. If not for Shep.
And the scientists that came aboard DID complete their mission.

so again..you fail.

Or not. The Cerberus team were the idiots who fell for the indoctrination to begin with. They were the reason we had to go pick up the IFF. They were the reason we had to board the Reaper. They were the reason we had to disable the Reaper's mass effect core.

Had they just behaved like real scientists, they could've kept that Reaper AND give us the IFF. Shepard was just there to clean up their mess like always.

Oh, wait. I forgot. Cerberus can't do anything wrong, because some apologist always finds some lame reason to justify even the most sadistic and stupid experiments Cerberus did.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 05 août 2011 - 01:00 .

[goofyomnivore]

I don't think the Collector Base is capable of indoctrination. They didn't need it. The "Protheans" were already synthetic slaves to them no need to "indoctrinate" them. And by the lack of shields, serious defenses, and required "IFF" it is quite obvious the Reapers never anticipated a species getting there. However if you're making/growing a sentient mind controlling warship, I would imagine you have come clues about it laying around, possibly even clues to indoctrination.

[Arijharn]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Or not. The Cerberus team were the idiots who fell for the indoctrination to begin with. They were the reason we had to go pick up the IFF. They were the reason we had to board the Reaper. They were the reason we had to disable the Reaper's mass effect core.

Salarian's have fallen for Indoctrination as have the Alliance. The Reaper IFF was successfully retrieved from within the guts of the Reaper if not neatly packaged and waiting for our arrival, and we still needed the IFF in the first place to even get through the Omega gate.

The result would have been the same no matter if it was any other science team due to past experience with Indoctrination.

[TMA LIVE]

When it comes to whatever way equals more advancement, keeping the base will always equal the highest advancement with the highest risks of losing it all if something goes wrong. While destroying the base will always equal to the lowest advancement, and the lowest risk when it comes to study (you are studying advanced broken equipment after all, Terminator 2 style). Though if Cerberus becomes indoctrinated anyways, then I guess the technology is too dangerous, regardless.

However, I more of looked at the choice more as the end goals. Unless they're going to make an ending were you side with both the Reapers and Cerberus, and take over the galaxy as their new slaves, you're going to be stopping Cerberus and the Reapers regardless at the end of the game. Meaning you'll probably get the Collector Base back, and into the hands of humanity.

I think the Collector Base will still be used as a way to secure human dominance over aliens after the Reapers are defeated (for better or for worse), while destroying it keeps humanity dependent on aliens after losing Earth, and sacrificing a lot. Which is pretty close to what I originally thought. Since keeping it will mean A) You have a working Reaper Factory. You have a "Make Reaper monsters" Factory. And C) Knowledge that the other races don't have a head start on. So you can use all this to take them over eventually. Which is bad if you don't like tyranny over aliens. Or good if you don't want be the next quarians.

[goofyomnivore]

Oh, wait. I forgot. Cerberus can't do anything wrong, because some apologist always finds some lame reason to justify even the most sadistic and stupid experiments Cerberus did.

I often hear this side of it as well..

Oh wait. I forgot. Cerberus does everything wrong, because some hater always finds some lame reason to dismiss even the most risky and important experiments Cerberus did.

Hyperbole on both sides of the spectrum. Cerberus was ignorant in handling the derelict reaper(who isn't?). However you forget: They were also the reason you could go through the Omega-4-Relay. To dismiss the importance and success of that is just as ignorant as their handling of the reaper. They paid for their ignorance with their lives and allowed you to achieve success. They screwed up, but it was a risky mission where they were going in blind. They don't have protocols and crap for "what to do inside a Reaper". Kenson couldn't even keep a team sane or finish her mission with an artifact. Cerberus almost got the job done inside an actual reaper.

Modifié par strive, 05 août 2011 - 01:21 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

In that case, Cerberus had something that was even better than the Collector base, alas, they let that one fall into enemy hands and shortly after that into a brown dwarf.

So...why should I give the base to those incompetent assclowns, when they can salvage the remains and not jeopardize the safety of themselves and the galaxy that way?

Again with that?

Due, Shep's the blame for the destruction of the reaper. SHEP.

Cerb can send more scientists and equipment over...or should I say..could have. If not for Shep.
And the scientists that came aboard DID complete their mission.

so again..you fail.

That ended up being a trap setup by the Reapers, with a virus and all. Plus, if Cerberus really wanted to keep the Reaper to be salvage, they wouldn't have lefted it near a brown dwarf, and had it depend on it taking care of itself. And if Shepard setoff the barrier by going on board, then another group of scientist would have done the same when they boarded. (though why this didn't happen with Legion, or when the scientists first arrived is, I guess, is another plothole).

Installing the IFF probably alerted Harby or activated some safety protocols. It's wasn't a pre-planned trap for Shep..at least I don't find that likely.

As to why they left it there. It was hidden in it's curreent position and who said they didn't have plans for moving it later?

[Someone With Mass]

Arijharn wrote...
Salarian's have fallen for Indoctrination as have the Alliance. The Reaper IFF was successfully retrieved from within the guts of the Reaper if not neatly packaged and waiting for our arrival, and we still needed the IFF in the first place to even get through the Omega gate.

The result would have been the same no matter if it was any other science team due to past experience with Indoctrination.

Yes, it would've been different, because indoctrination takes days, not hours to effect the exposed individuals.

I don't even think their mission was to locate the IFF to begin with, because you certainly don't need 100+ to accomplish that goal.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TMA LIVE wrote...

From Bioware trying to show you something from a glance, and using pictures to give you an idea, I'm pretty sure it is. After all, I doubt anyone would get an idea of what the datapad represented with just lines of data, and nothing else. Clearly it's something that matters, and something to do with Reapers, from all sides.

It doens't have to mean anything, other than Sheppard looking at the face of the enemy.
A dramatic flair if you will...

If they wanted to show an actual blueprint..they could have.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Goneaviking wrote...
The thanix cannon was developed from smashed up pieces of Sovereign, turning it to rubble probably did something to disable the indoctrination signal that Sovereign was known to give off and making it a lot safer to research.

The collector base intact may have been instrumental in keeping an entire species indoctrinated (we have no way of knowing for sure), blowing it up leaves lots of parts for Cerberus to examine with reduced risk of indoctrination. The dead reaper demonstrated that merely rendering it inactive is no sure protection against being turned.

Destroy Collector Base = reaper tech for research = reduced chance of indoctrinated scientists = advantage

It also equals a LOT less to reseach and analyze = less of an advantage.

Furthermore, we have n oway of knowing what part of a repaer is responsible for indoctriation, or if hte HR core even had it. There'fore, destroying the entire base and reducing the benfit becuse of there potentialy being indoctrination....no. Just no.

Besides, if there was an indoctrination device on the base, you'd want to study that too.

And furhtermore, you have no guarantee that blowing up the base would destroy the indoctrination device. You don't know where it is nor how big or resilient it is.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Again with that?

Due, Shep's the blame for the destruction of the reaper. SHEP.

Cerb can send more scientists and equipment over...or should I say..could have. If not for Shep.
And the scientists that came aboard DID complete their mission.

so again..you fail.

Or not. The Cerberus team were the idiots who fell for the indoctrination to begin with. They were the reason we had to go pick up the IFF. They were the reason we had to board the Reaper. They were the reason we had to disable the Reaper's mass effect core.

Had they just behaved like real scientists, they could've kept that Reaper AND give us the IFF. Shepard was just there to clean up their mess like always.

Oh, wait. I forgot. Cerberus can't do anything wrong, because some apologist always finds some lame reason to justify even the most sadistic and stupid experiments Cerberus did.

Stop talking rubbish.

There's NO DEFENSE agaisnt indoctrination. There were no indications of the reaper being alive.
Wihout those scientist Shep would have never found the IFF.

And Shep could have have destroyed the emmiters for the kinetic barrier, not the core....he didn't.


It's easy to be the general after the battle dude.

[SynheKatze]

And what evidence do we have that it isn't some blueprints? I'll answer that right away: the same that it is. Going on about it would lead us to no conclussion, but accepting that it could be a potential plot device that Bioware might use in whatever way they want.

[didymos1120]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Due, Shep's the blame for the destruction of the reaper. SHEP.

OK, I agree with the idea that blaming Cerberus for losing the derelict is silly.  And yes, if we're being pedantic, Shep and squad shot the ME core, which caused the derelict to lose station.  Of course, you're ignoring the facts that:

a. Shep had no control over the kinetic barriers being activated.  That just happened out of nowhere.

b.  Destroying the ME core was the only way to get out of there on short notice, which was necessary because, to quote TIM, "But now we need that IFF."

c. They were also being swarmed by husks at the time, which really made looking for a alternate solution to the conundrum rather impractical.

So, assigning blame to anyone for the loss of the derelict is just stupid, unless of course you're assigning it to the writers (and even then "blame" is debatable).

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Arijharn wrote...
Salarian's have fallen for Indoctrination as have the Alliance. The Reaper IFF was successfully retrieved from within the guts of the Reaper if not neatly packaged and waiting for our arrival, and we still needed the IFF in the first place to even get through the Omega gate.

The result would have been the same no matter if it was any other science team due to past experience with Indoctrination.

Yes, it would've been different, because indoctrination takes days, not hours to effect the exposed individuals.

I don't even think their mission was to locate the IFF to begin with, because you certainly don't need 100+ to accomplish that goal.

Your ignorance is astounding.

It's a 2km long warship with alien equipment.
Finding the reaper IFF is like finding a needle in a haystack of simialr looking needles.

It's a miracle they found the damn thing.

[Someone With Mass]

Oh, so we can analyze and master Reaper technology, but we know almost nothing about Prothean technology?

Yeah, I can see the logic in that.

[didymos1120]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And Shep could have have destroyed the emmiters for the kinetic barrier, not the core....he didn't.

Those are all over the hull, genius.  Or should they have cut every single bit of cabling?  While being swarmed by husks?   

It's easy to be the general after the battle dude.

Apparently so.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Your ignorance is astounding.

It's a 2km long warship with alien equipment.
Finding the reaper IFF is like finding a needle in a haystack of simialr looking needles.

It's a miracle they found the damn thing.

Oh, I'm sorry. You were in a hurry. Please, ignore all the safety precautions and the risks there might be. There's no harm in that.

This is something that works especially well in traffic too.