3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Sisterofshane wrote...

It may, however, confirm many people's suspicions.

That paragons can have their cake and eat it too?

[Unpleasant Implications]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

The CInematic could imply a lot of things.  Its more likely the blueprints came from the Derelict Reaper.
I can't comment on Walters tweet I've never seen it

http://twitter.com/#...530567091097600

TMA: At the end of ME2, Joker gives Shepard a datapad showing a Reaper. Does that mean we gained some kind of data on Reapers?

Mac: It is safe to assume that the Collector base yielded a great deal of
information on the Reapers (even if destroyed). So... Yes .

So basically the only difference is whether Shepard alone has the information or if Shepard and TIM have the information?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Meta-gaming made easy.

[Homebound]

how do quarians poop?

[TMA LIVE]

Unpleasant Implications wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

The CInematic could imply a lot of things.  Its more likely the blueprints came from the Derelict Reaper.
I can't comment on Walters tweet I've never seen it

http://twitter.com/#...530567091097600

TMA: At the end of ME2, Joker gives Shepard a datapad showing a Reaper. Does that mean we gained some kind of data on Reapers?

Mac: It is safe to assume that the Collector base yielded a great deal of
information on the Reapers (even if destroyed). So... Yes .

So basically the only difference is whether Shepard alone has the information or if Shepard and TIM have the information?

Maybe. Depends on if EDI sent that same info to the Illusive Man.

The choice does seem to really come down to, does TIM have dangerous advanced technology, or does he not. While Shepard just gets his info either way. Which is really what the choice is really about. Saving the tech intact, and giving it to Cerberus for advancement, and to secure human dominance. Or not allowing Cerberus to have it.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 06 août 2011 - 04:09 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Hellbound555 wrote...

how do quarians poop?

Bit off topic no?
I'm sure there is a thread about it somewhere,we are discussing the morality behind saving or destroying the CB

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Unpleasant Implications wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

The CInematic could imply a lot of things.  Its more likely the blueprints came from the Derelict Reaper.
I can't comment on Walters tweet I've never seen it

http://twitter.com/#...530567091097600

TMA: At the end of ME2, Joker gives Shepard a datapad showing a Reaper. Does that mean we gained some kind of data on Reapers?

Mac: It is safe to assume that the Collector base yielded a great deal of
information on the Reapers (even if destroyed). So... Yes .

So basically the only difference is whether Shepard alone has the information or if Shepard and TIM have the information?

Maybe. Depends on if EDI sent that same info to the Illusive Man.

The choice does seem to really come down to, does TIM have dangerous advanced technology, or does he not. While Shepard just gets his info either way. Which is really what the choice is really about. Saving the tech intact.

Pure speculation here,after the collector attack EDI gets unlocked,maybe she didn't send TIM the whole thing or perhaps misinformation(maybe only if your paragon)

[Goneaviking]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...
They're making a sentient organic/synthetic machine god, they're going to want to ensure it's loyalty. The easiest way of doing that might well be to indoctrinate it at every stage of it's creation.

We don't know enough about Reapers to know whether they're immune to their own indoctrination devices, if not then constructing them in a base set up to create them makes perfect sense. We do know that the human reaper larvae had at least a minimal amount of intelligence to attack you at the finale of ME2, it most likely didn't have it's most sophisticate programming installed yet but it's simplistic programming could be enough to make the process viable.

Pure speculation of course, but it doesn't seem completely implausible.

Reapers are going to be indoctrinating themsleves??

Riiiight^_^

So to be clear, you're saying that you don't think that the reapers would make an effort to ensure the loyalty of new club members?

[TMA LIVE]

EDI's unlocked, but I still think she says she still sends reports to the Illusive Man if you ask her. I haven't gone back and checked.

[Unpleasant Implications]

TMA LIVE wrote...

EDI's unlocked, but I still think she says she still sends reports to the Illusive Man if you ask her. I haven't gone back and checked.

When I spoke to her she just said that her blocks were released and she felt as though the Normandy was her body. I don't remember her saying she still sent TIM reports. She sent schematics about the bases form, but I don't remember anything about reports post base destruction.

[JPfanner]

I don't know if I'd consider Mass Effect's humanity to be especially effective at diplomacy. Generally in science fiction they are and they're usually the ones holding the galactic community together. But I don't really see that in Mass Effect, especially with their new kids on the block status.

There was already a galactic community made up of multiple species working together for over two millenia without any input from humans. Humanity is trying to fit into an established system in some way and stepping on toes constantly while doing it. They're considered bossy upstarts and bullies. They're more a destabilizing influence than a stabilizing one.

Humanity's position seems to have less to do with any diplomatic skill and a lot more due to the fact that they build more warships in proportion to their population than any other race. I mean there are like 12 billion humans and their fleet is nearly comparable to the turians who are considered very military oriented. Although I suppose having a lot of big guns is a kind of diplomacy.

Humanity secures its largest diplomatic/political gains from Shepard running around shooting stuff in ME1.

I'm curious to see where that leaves humanity in a post Reaper invasion setting. Ravaged homeworld, significant population loss, and missing quite a few of those big guns. I guess that'd be the time for those stereotypical diplomatic skills to start shining.

[SandTrout]

There was already a galactic community made up of multiple species working together for over two millenia without any input from humans. Humanity is trying to fit into an established system in some way and stepping on toes constantly while doing it. They're considered bossy upstarts and bullies. They're more a destabilizing influence than a stabilizing one.

The council isn't exactly the model of a just governmental structure. Just ask the Quarians, who have been repeatedly kneecapped by the Council in their efforts to settle an new home-world.

Humanity's position seems to have less to do with any diplomatic skill and a lot more due to the fact that they build more warships in proportion to their population than any other race. I mean there are like 12 billion humans and their fleet is nearly comparable to the turians who are considered very military oriented. Although I suppose having a lot of big guns is a kind of diplomacy.

Actually, having a lot of big guns and having a lot of money are the only forms of diplomacy that have ever existed. Nations do not rise in prominence purely by virtue of diplomatic skill without some sort of leverage, weather economic or military.

Humanity secures its largest diplomatic/political gains from Shepard running around shooting stuff in ME1.

False. Humanity gained its greatest diplomatic/political gains by leveraging our notable military might within context. We gained colonization priority in the Attican Traverse by virtue that we were willing and able to protect those colonies from Terminus System incursion. Sheppard gained his Spectre status because the Council needed something to appease humanity, by virtue of our diplomatic maneuvering. Humanity gained its Council seat for its military contribution to the BotC.

I'm curious to see where that leaves humanity in a post Reaper invasion setting. Ravaged homeworld, significant population loss, and missing quite a few of those big guns. I guess that'd be the time for those stereotypical diplomatic skills to start shining.

Hopefully, we will be able to rebuild and expand our colonial populations while everyone is rebuilding. Everyone will be reeling from the Galactic War, though it currently looks likely that Humanity will be hit worse than most. Our best chance is to use our noted attribute to grab at every opportunity given to us to rebuild better and stronger than before. Most of the other species have not shown a propensity to expand as rapidly as humans, at least partially because they have grown complacent in their ability to keep other races(Volus, Elcor, Quarians, Krogan) subjugated.

Their empires will contract and shrink into themselves in order to cope with this kind of trauma, while humans will see a massive boost of colonial volunteers as many attempt to escape the devastation on Earth.

[didymos1120]

jbblue05 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
Given that they didn't specify, how can you possibly know this?  And no, her using thermal emissions to detect the massive seeker swarm doesn't mean the SR-2 was only capable of TE scanning.

We saw EDI installed on the Collector Ship we never see her installed at the base.  Their was a strong emphasis EDI was in control of some of the systems at the Collector Ship. On the CB all we hear is she's repairing the SR2, TE scans on the base blueprints, seeker swarms and Human Reaper.  EDI was guessing about data on the Reaper

That completely fails to address the question I asked: how do you know the NORMANDY is capable of only TE scans?  I didn't say a thing about EDI having access to the CB systems. I'm talking about sensors.

Now, as to this other question I didn't ask but got an answer to: 

a.  EDI was not "installed" anywhere except the Normandy.  Not ever.  AI's like her don't work that way.  What you did was open their systems to external access:

TIM: Once you're aboard the ship, establish an uplink with EDI. She'll mine their data for information regarding the Omega 4 relay.

EDI: Penetrating scans have detected an access node to uplink with Collector databanks.

EDI: Shepard, you must manually reestablish my link to the command console.

"Uplink".  Not "upload".  A comms channel.  If she were really installed, she wouldn't have needed to call you from the Normandy and have you re-open the link.

c. Nothing is said of how exactly she got the CB layout. It was just unspecified "scans", and it seems highly unlikely thermal scans would be able to resolve the amount of large-scale detail shown in the hologram during the briefing, much less reveal even the existence of those tiny little tubes used to get around the locked doors at the beginning, or the location of the specific command console that grants access to the reactor systems.

d. We know the Normandy has other instruments: I'm sure you remember mineral scanning, right? And all the widely-varied crap EDI detects (comm signals, individual mechs down to their model, etc.) on the N7 missions from orbit on widely-varied worlds? No way in hell that was all accomplished by looking only at the IR part of the spectrum. Then there are these lines:

EDI: Ladar scans do not detect any hull breaches on the side facing us. I detect no mass effect field distortions. It appears the drive core is offline.

EDI:Shepard. I have compared the ship's EM signature to known Collector profiles. It is the vessel you encountered on Horizon.

and the reference to "Penetrating scans" quoted above.  Then there's the fact that Veetor was able to record dark energy readings on his omni-tool.  Hard to imagine one of those can outperform the SR-2, even if it was owned by a quarian.

e.  How in the hell could "thermal scans" provide sufficient detail about the CB's reactor such that TIM was able to figure out that it could generate the radiation pulse?  And no: no one on the squad uploaded it. We saw what they were doing the whole time they were in that chamber.  Shep was just planting a charge when TIM decides it's a good time to say "O Hai Shepard!"  The other two were standing idly, not fiddling with their omnitools or anything, until he called.  Also:

TIM: I'm looking at the schematics EDI uploaded.

Now, given that the interior of the CB looked very much like the interior Collector Ship, including the holographic panels and terminals and whatnot, why would you assume Shep was not able to provide another uplink? Especially since EDI was able to stay in contact throughout (except for the swarm bit). 

jbblue05 wrote...

The [ci]nematic could imply a lot of things.  Its more likely the blueprints came from the Derelict Reaper.

Based on what evidence exactly?  Why would they show that after the base is blown/irradiated instead of after the derelict?  Makes ZERO narrative sense, that.  Also, why exactly would the derelict have pics of Harbinger (which is what, or rather who, that was on the datapad)? No, the dead obvious implication, especially when combined with all of the above, is that Joker is showing Shep some of what they got from the base.  Hence it's placement at that point in the story: right after we've thwarted Harbinger's thralls and right before Shepard gazes out into space and we are shown the real Harbinger with the Reaper fleet approaching the galaxy.

jbblue05 wrote...

I can't comment on Walters tweet I've never seen it

Well, I'd assumed you'd been reading the thread. That and it was linked right above one of your own posts.  Anyway, you've seen it now.  So, who exactly downloaded all that stuff while the gang was busy fighting drones, hacking doors, holding off seekers, escorting the crew, possibly dying, fleeing for their lives to the Normandy, etc.? Occam's Razor says....EDI. And especially because her ability to do these things was quite well-established on the Collector Ship. Not to mention the revelation that she is part Reaper-tech.

Modifié par didymos1120, 06 août 2011 - 05:07 .

[Arijharn]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yes, it would've been different, because indoctrination takes days, not hours to effect the exposed individuals.

I don't even think their mission was to locate the IFF to begin with, because you certainly don't need 100+ to accomplish that goal.

It's not as if they have blueprints of the Reaper lying around is it? "Remove panel 586790-1A, remove device #3b located on top right slot labelled #3b-a with care." Given the size of a Reaper, it really would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

Evaluation of a Reaper is what I'd argue to be pretty necessary to begin with due to the fact that we know we'll be involved in a sizeable military confrontation with them in the near future, which obviously would require intensive and prolonged stay, which I think is worth 100+ personnel and a sizeable investment.

Obviously Indoctrination wasn't properly handled, but so much about Indoctrination is still unknown, it's clear that the personnel themselves didn't know what Indoctrination was, and while I think TIM is ruthless, I doubt even he would just be willing to throw scientists into the grinder 'just to see what happens' if only because it would be a terrible waste of resources, especially for an organisation that supposedly only has 3 cells and 150 odd workers. Also, if you recall, TIM essentially abandons whatever plan he had in mind with the derelict Reaper due to it 'not being safe' and only puts you there in the first place due to the necessity of reaquiring the IFF, and I think it's important to note that he hasn't outright lied to you, because there is no other Cerberus presence, and the state of bodies are in advance states of decay -- it doesn't look to me that there has been anyone living on that base for a large period of time.

[SandTrout]

I don't think I've every seen didymos get this.... emphatic toward anyone.

Ay is scrd.

[Arijharn]

 Some (Independent aka., not related to Cerberus 'agenda') Reasons to keep the Collector Base

 • Continual ‘data mining’availability



• No loss of data/hard devices whether by destruction of the
base or loss due to compression shockwaves propelling debris into ‘deep space’ –
or be sucked into the black hole event horizon – note that there is
atmosphere within the base after all.

• No assumptions predicating that information is more or
less useful, all information is potentially ‘high value.’

• Physical assets (Collector Beam Rifles, manufacturing
plants for presumably the Collector cruiser (it had to be built somewhere and
by someone after all)

Added sample size for Reaper evaluation (in addition to any
surviving debris ‘seconded’ from Reaper IFF mission, Kahlee Sanders operations?
Sovereign remains – we would implicitly have the plans for the human-Reaper
production, Joker’s datapad)

• Can you be absolutely positive that EDI managed to capture
everything that may be of importance? How can you be absolutely
positive?

• Somewhat tied to bullet point 1, but potential for gaining
further information if there is data that is not part of the CB ‘network’ but
otherwise attainable (I mean, EDI doesn’t point out that there’s a Human-Reaper
in the basement until you see it… and you’d think it would otherwise ‘stand
out.’)

• How can you be sure that another ‘golden opportunity’
would fall into your lap as potentially[/i]
wondrous in information as what’s represented here?

[Sebby]

One critical thing about preserving the Collector base that isn't mentioned often(or at all) is that the cloning facilitie(s) would remain intact, which means that Cerberus would be able to create their own army of Collectors(for better or worse). The only issue would be finding a substitute for the Collector General/Harbinger, which might be fulfilled by another EDI like A.I.

Regardless, I hope we fight Collectors again in ME3. I enjoyed fighting those bastards more than the mercs.

[Sisterofshane]

JPfanner wrote...

I don't know if I'd consider Mass Effect's humanity to be especially effective at diplomacy. Generally in science fiction they are and they're usually the ones holding the galactic community together. But I don't really see that in Mass Effect, especially with their new kids on the block status.

There was already a galactic community made up of multiple species working together for over two millenia without any input from humans. Humanity is trying to fit into an established system in some way and stepping on toes constantly while doing it. They're considered bossy upstarts and bullies. They're more a destabilizing influence than a stabilizing one.

Not effective at diplomacy?  Then how do you explain humanity getting an embassy upon the citadel faster than any other species in the galaxy?  Hopefully not because we just happened to be in the "right place at the right time".  Species like the Krogan have done FAR more to secure galactic peace and security than humanity, and they never even made it as far as an embassy (granted, the Krogan kind of shot themselves in the foot).

And "bullying" I think can be considered a "diplomatic" tactic. It doesn't fit the connotative definition of the term, but it is considered diplomacy.

JPfanner wrote...
Humanity's position seems to have less to do with any diplomatic skill and a lot more due to the fact that they build more warships in proportion to their population than any other race. I mean there are like 12 billion humans and their fleet is nearly comparable to the turians who are considered very military oriented. Although I suppose having a lot of big guns is a kind of diplomacy.

Having a substantial military force just gave us a better position to negotiate.  What we have gained from this position, was due to our *ability* to negotiate.  We CAN be diplomatic.

JPfanner wrote...
Humanity secures its largest diplomatic/political gains from Shepard running around shooting stuff in ME1.

Actually, it depends upon a renegade or paragon Shep.  I think a renegade Shep does more to undermine our current polical negotiation status then a paragon Shep.  Either way we manage to gain a significant amount of political power in the end (ending up as a council race).

JPfanner wrote...
I'm curious to see where that leaves humanity in a post Reaper invasion setting. Ravaged homeworld, significant population loss, and missing quite a few of those big guns. I guess that'd be the time for those stereotypical diplomatic skills to start shining.

This is where I think Shep will be of more help.  We'll be able to rub into the faces of other species that it was because of a human that we are all still alive today.  HUGE bargaining chip, IMO.

[Homebound]

This thread...

[Sisterofshane]

Arijharn wrote...

 Some (Independent aka., not related to Cerberus 'agenda') Reasons to keep the Collector Base

 Continual ‘data mining’availability

By whom exactly?  EDI is attached to the Normandy -- I'm assuming that we're not going to leave the Normandy and Shep and the crew at the collector base just so that EDI can datamine it.  And I don't see a lot of EDI's floating around.  So, I'm assuming that this would mean human research teams. Considering the risk of indoctrination (and when dealing with Reaper tech we should ALWAYS assume that risk), would this even be effective?  Would an indoctrinated team even SEND us anything they find?  What about giving an indoctrinated team of scientists the ability to snoop around a ship that has so many advanced weapons systems?  What's the chance that the weapons would be used against us?
^Just a random train of thought that occurs when I start considering exactly who will be left to research the base.  (Will potentially be the same with teams independent of Cerberus)

No loss of data/hard devices whether by destruction of the
base or loss due to compression shockwaves propelling debris into ‘deep space’ –
or be sucked into the black hole event horizon – note that there is
atmosphere within the base after all.

No assumptions predicating that information is more or
less useful, all information is potentially ‘high value.’

 Physical assets (Collector Beam Rifles, manufacturing
plants for presumably the Collector cruiser (it had to be built somewhere and
by someone after all)

Added sample size for Reaper evaluation (in addition to any
surviving debris ‘seconded’ from Reaper IFF mission, Kahlee Sanders operations?
Sovereign remains – we would implicitly have the plans for the human-Reaper
production, Joker’s datapad)

Truly benefits.  No arguments here^_^

Can you be absolutely positive that EDI managed to capture
everything that may be of importance? How can you be absolutely
positive?

Somewhat tied to bullet point 1, but potential for gaining
further information if there is data that is not part of the CB ‘network’ but
otherwise attainable (I mean, EDI doesn’t point out that there’s a Human-Reaper
in the basement until you see it… and you’d think it would otherwise ‘stand
out.’)

I would put more faith in EDI to find something then I would any human team.  Refer back to my first point about EDI's potential availabilty to sit there and just datamine.

How can you be sure that another ‘golden opportunity’
would fall into your lap as potentially
wondrous in information as what’s represented here?

Could easily switch the words *golden opportunity* for catastrophic circumstance and *wonderous* for dangerous, depending upon the actual outcome.  Right now we just don't know.

But, good way to eliminate Cerberus from the picture!  I lke that it makes people think more objectively as opposed to emotionally!

Modifié par Sisterofshane, 06 août 2011 - 06:08 .

[Arijharn]

Sos, I'm not going to link my stuff that you're responding too, I feel it gets pretty messy that way!

Sisterofshane wrote...


By whom exactly?  EDI is attached to the Normandy -- I'm assuming that we're not going to leave the Normandy and Shep and the crew at the collector base just so that EDI can datamine it.  And I don't see a lot of EDI's floating around.  So, I'm assuming that this would mean human research teams. Considering the risk of indoctrination (and when dealing with Reaper tech we should ALWAYS assume that risk), would this even be effective?  Would an indoctrinated team even SEND us anything they find?  What about giving an indoctrinated team of scientists the ability to snoop around a ship that has so many advanced weapons systems?  What's the chance that the weapons would be used against us?
^Just a random train of thought that occurs when I start considering exactly who will be left to research the base.  (Will potentially be the same with teams independent of Cerberus)

By anyone and everyone with access to an omni-tool and/or a computer and VI's pretty much. EDI was in my opinion essential at the time because she was much faster at what needed to be done, but she isn't solely the one capable of number crunching. 

Sure, risk of Indoctrination is present, but I think that this danger is more inline with examining the actual Reaper debris because there is no sense in Indoctrinating the indoctrinated after all. In addition, Collector technology is very clearly not Reaper technology (just look at the difference between say the Human-Reaper and just Collector technology lying around, the main point is that Collector technology is very noticeably 'organic' whereas Reapers are, for all the talk of metallic-organic construction, are primarily metallic.)

I think the CB's relative position in the galaxy and the relative use of the Collectors within the galaxy at large was evidence that the CB's primary defensive mechanism was stealth, and that it wasn't somehow a Reaper Xanatos Gambit in thinking that it's just one more step in their goals.

Sure, Cerberus holds the base now, but I can almost guarantee that when the Reapers start flying around and tearing up Council space, the Council member species are going to be less concerned about 'invading' the Terminus Systems, especially if the Terminus Systems are aware of the Reaper threat. Not that they'd be in any way more inclined to help, just that we'd be putting them into untenable situations really. In effect, gunboat diplomacy. All this is a roundabout saying is that if Shephard or anyone really wants to take the Collector Base, Cerberus isn't going to be able to stop them.

Sisterofshane wrote...
Truly benefits.  No arguments here [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

I'm going to assume you're not being sarcastic, so I'm just going to move along

Sisterofshane wrote...
Could easily switch the words *golden opportunity* for catastrophic circumstance and *wonderous* for dangerous, depending upon the actual outcome.  Right now we just don't know.

I haven't quoted your other section about 'human crews' because I feel I've outlined my reasons above in my first block of responses; but as for your bolded section (which I think is the most pertinent) it's exactly this reason why you should be more focussed on keeping the base.

It's better to have the base and find nothing important in it then not having the base and thinking that something useful was in it. If the CB comes into a situation where Cerberus or even the Reapers make a play for it, then you could always destroy it then, but don't destroy it before you've had a chance to find out for sure.

Just exercise a modicum of restraint is about it.

[Sisterofshane]

Arijharn wrote...

Sos, I'm not going to link my stuff that you're responding too, I feel it gets pretty messy that way!

Sisterofshane wrote...


By whom exactly?  EDI is attached to the Normandy -- I'm assuming that we're not going to leave the Normandy and Shep and the crew at the collector base just so that EDI can datamine it.  And I don't see a lot of EDI's floating around.  So, I'm assuming that this would mean human research teams. Considering the risk of indoctrination (and when dealing with Reaper tech we should ALWAYS assume that risk), would this even be effective?  Would an indoctrinated team even SEND us anything they find?  What about giving an indoctrinated team of scientists the ability to snoop around a ship that has so many advanced weapons systems?  What's the chance that the weapons would be used against us?
^Just a random train of thought that occurs when I start considering exactly who will be left to research the base.  (Will potentially be the same with teams independent of Cerberus)

By anyone and everyone with access to an omni-tool and/or a computer and VI's pretty much. EDI was in my opinion essential at the time because she was much faster at what needed to be done, but she isn't solely the one capable of number crunching. 

Sure, risk of Indoctrination is present, but I think that this danger is more inline with examining the actual Reaper debris because there is no sense in Indoctrinating the indoctrinated after all. In addition, Collector technology is very clearly not Reaper technology (just look at the difference between say the Human-Reaper and just Collector technology lying around, the main point is that Collector technology is very noticeably 'organic' whereas Reapers are, for all the talk of metallic-organic construction, are primarily metallic.)

I think the CB's relative position in the galaxy and the relative use of the Collectors within the galaxy at large was evidence that the CB's primary defensive mechanism was stealth, and that it wasn't somehow a Reaper Xanatos Gambit in thinking that it's just one more step in their goals.

Sure, Cerberus holds the base now, but I can almost guarantee that when the Reapers start flying around and tearing up Council space, the Council member species are going to be less concerned about 'invading' the Terminus Systems, especially if the Terminus Systems are aware of the Reaper threat. Not that they'd be in any way more inclined to help, just that we'd be putting them into untenable situations really. In effect, gunboat diplomacy. All this is a roundabout saying is that if Shephard or anyone really wants to take the Collector Base, Cerberus isn't going to be able to stop them.

Sisterofshane wrote...
Truly benefits.  No arguments here [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

I'm going to assume you're not being sarcastic, so I'm just going to move along

Sisterofshane wrote...
Could easily switch the words *golden opportunity* for catastrophic circumstance and *wonderous* for dangerous, depending upon the actual outcome.  Right now we just don't know.

I haven't quoted your other section about 'human crews' because I feel I've outlined my reasons above in my first block of responses; but as for your bolded section (which I think is the most pertinent) it's exactly this reason why you should be more focussed on keeping the base.

It's better to have the base and find nothing important in it then not having the base and thinking that something useful was in it. If the CB comes into a situation where Cerberus or even the Reapers make a play for it, then you could always destroy it then, but don't destroy it before you've had a chance to find out for sure.

Just exercise a modicum of restraint is about it.

Makes me wish that there was a decision timer for that one.  In practicality, how long would Shepard ACTUALLY have to make a decision to keep/destroy the base?  We could sit here and suppose all day, but in the end I think the amount of time given in the game would make a huge difference into whether people made an emotional decision or a practical one.  If I only had a few seconds to make a choice (which is more like real life), I would probably pick to keep the base nearly every time.
 
BTW, rational arguments make me smile!

Also, wouldn't it make for an interesting side quest if those who kept the base THEN had to go destroy it because the threat that we are all supposing came to actualization?  Would be a time in which renegades would be rewarded with more gameplay!

[SandTrout]

The interesting thing is, I've actually come to reconsider my decision on the CB on my personal canon play-through. Although I stand by my reasons to blow it up as rational, the discussions on this thread have revealed that I hadn't thought through everything all that thoroughly because I had placed myself very much into Shepard's role where I had to make a snap-decision under impending attack. TIM dropped the whole thing on me so quickly that I didn't have time to consider everything, and by default, I stuck to the original plan.

The funny thing is, if TIM had pointed out that salvaging the base was possible at an earlier point in the mission, I might have kept it, while I suspect that he intended to drop that bomb on me at the last minute to keep me from thinking it through too much. In that way, if TIM did deliberately try to manipulate me in that manner in order to convince me to keep the base, then he did us both a disfavor.

I'm still not going to kill TIM in ME3 unless he really is working for the Reapers (as opposed to some strange gambit), but if I ever get to meet him in person, I think I will break his jaw for that, given the option.

Modifié par SandTrout, 06 août 2011 - 06:44 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Kill him? Maybe.
Pistol whip? Absolutely.

[Sebby]

SandTrout wrote...

The interesting thing is, I've actually come to reconsider my decision on the CB on my personal canon play-through. Although I stand by my reasons to blow it up as rational, the discussions on this thread have revealed that I hadn't thought through everything all that thoroughly because I had placed myself very much into Shepard's role where I had to make a snap-decision under impending attack. TIM dropped the whole thing on me so quickly that I didn't have time to consider everything, and by default, I stuck to the original plan.

The funny thing is, if TIM had pointed out that salvaging the base was possible at an earlier point in the mission, I might have kept it, while I suspect that he intended to drop that bomb on me at the last minute to keep me from thinking it through too much. In that way, if TIM did deliberately try to manipulate me in that manner in order to convince me to keep the base, then he did us both a disfavor.

I'm still not going to kill TIM in ME3 unless he really is working for the Reapers (as opposed to some strange gambit), but if I ever get to meet him in person, I think I will break his jaw for that, given the option.

I most likely would have destroyed the base in my first canon playthrough of ME2 had it not been for TIM knocking sense into myself and my Shepard.  Like you I was taken completely off guard by the decision and I wasn't pro-Cerberus/TIM at the time (My Shepard had kept the Rawling's data for herself as leverage and took David out of Overlord).

Thank Jubileus for TIM's words of wisdom that prevented my Shepard from doing something so stupid as to destroy the base.