3618 réponses à ce sujet

[jbblue05]

That completely fails to address the question I asked: how do you know the NORMANDY is capable of only TE scans?  I didn't say a thing about EDI having access to the CB systems. I'm talking about sensors.

I never said EDI was only capable of I said all we know EDI did at the CB

Based on what evidence exactly?  Why would they show that after the base is blown/irradiated instead of after the derelict?  Makes ZERO narrative sense, that.  Also, why exactly would the derelict have pics of Harbinger (which is what, or rather who, that was on the datapad)? No, the dead obvious implication, especially when combined with all of the above, is that Joker is showing Shep some of what they got from the base.  Hence it's placement at that point in the story: right after we've thwarted Harbinger's thralls and right before Shepard gazes out into space and we are shown the real Harbinger with the Reaper fleet approaching the galaxy.

The Derelict Reaper is the only Reaper studied internally and externally during ME2.  It does make sense after the Derelict Reaper the main priority is the IFF to get to the Omega 4 Relay, the Reaper's schematic could have been viewed by EDI/TIM until it was needed by Shepard.  TIM doesn't tell Shepard everything its heavily hinted through out the story

    

Modifié par jbblue05, 06 août 2011 - 05:29 .

[TMA LIVE]

alperez wrote...

Think about it like this, if the base was going to be important to us in fighting the reapers, would bioware have really given a choice presented as it was, destroy or hand it over to cerberus, or would they have in fact added in choice 3, keep it for yourself (alliance, council, Mordin, whoever).

Now think about it like this, if the base's importance was only in potentially strengtening a potential future antagonist (cerberus) then it makes sense that you phrase that choice in simple black and white terms (destroy or hand it over).

I will admit, if Cerberus wanted the base for themselves since the beginning, they'd want you to learn you could keep the base last minute. Because right after you leave, they take it with a fleet of ships. You'd have to get the entire Alliance to take it back from Cerberus. After you tell them you pretty much gave it to him. And now with Arrival having you on trial, things between you and the Alliance aren't so good anymore.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 06 août 2011 - 05:22 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

outdo does nto equal destroy.

And to dominate, you first need to survive. Priorities man..Priorities.

Cerberus can survive if they want to.

They have no need of the other races.

[DarkDragon777]

Yes they do. The other races fuel their ingenuity. Without other races, Cerberus wouldn't even be there. True, they don't need them to actually survive, but they work well as pawns.

Modifié par DarkDragon777, 06 août 2011 - 05:24 .

[alperez]

TMA LIVE wrote...


I will admit, if Cerberus wanted the base for themselves since the beginning, they'd want you to learn you could keep the base last minute. Because right after you leave, they take it with a fleet of ships. You'd have to get the entire Alliance to take it back from Cerberus. After you tell them you pretty much gave it to him. And now with Arrival having you on trial, things between you and the Alliance aren't so good anymore.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMC200aJ-do&feature=player_detailpage#t=74s[/url]

The other thing is that by all accounts regardless of either keeping or destroying the base, Cerberus still get their hands on the info/tech irrespective of you choice.

Plus despite what your own feelings towards them they still for some reason seem to be against you in me3.

When you add both of these into the equation to me it makes the base choice to be even more likely to have been a choice between strengthening cerberus or not.

[Someone With Mass]

That's Harbinger, alright.

[TMA LIVE]

That seems to be it. Do you want to give power to a pro-human terrorist organization, and trust them to be responsible with it? And to always be on your side? And willing to give them power to dominate the other races by giving them an advantage? And at the cost of probably more immoral sacrifices? Or do you not want to do any of this, and believe you'll find another way? Do you already see them as a threat, or a future threat, that also needs to be taken out? Like the Collectors, the Shadow Broker, or the Heretic Geth?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 06 août 2011 - 05:38 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

It is highly likely Lex Luthor TIM kept the info til the last minute,he probably wanted to catch you off guard for the decision,the whole way in you beleive you're about to blow the base,then he ambushes you with  "I have found a better solution"

It's kind of the opposite of the Geth decision,Legion told you in the begining(well right when you came in) that there were two options,now some of us may have been set on "F these geth." or "I beleive in second chances" but we probably thought about the decision along the way,TIM eliminated that chance to really think it through by hitting you with another option right at the end.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 06 août 2011 - 05:33 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
They do dwarf what our ground troops could otherwise do with their precious little eezo based weaponry.

Only if ground troops have the power required to fire those weapons. And I don't think you can expect every marine squad in the galaxy to have power cells on them at all times. 

To quote the Codex:

"Lacking any clear ammunition or fuel source, the device likely uses heat sinks or compensators to maintain firing during sustained combat. Current Cerberus efforts to understand the technology and replicate it have failed."

With the base, Cerberus will probably be able to understand and replicate the tech in no time. Hell, even if they would fail at that, they'd still have hundreds if not thousands of those weapons just lying around the base, ready to use.

[jbblue05]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

http://twitter.com/#...530567091097600

TMA: At the end of ME2, Joker gives Shepard a datapad showing a Reaper. Does that mean we gained some kind of data on Reapers?

Mac: It is safe to assume that the Collector base yielded a great deal of
information on the Reapers (even if destroyed). So... Yes .

Walters doesn't confirm EDI datamined the Base.

Its obvious no matter if you kept or destroyed the CB you' learn a lt abut the Reapers sme more than other

You got those pictures and info from somewhere. And it ain't Sov. And as Mac says, it's info that came from the base. The base had information, and we got it. Logic says EDI. After all, did you see Shepard download anything during the Suicide Mission?

You also get pics of a Reaper frm Kasumi's greybox and let me tell you EDI had nothing to do with it.
The tweet from Mac doesn't confirm the blueprints came from the CB he was very vague in his answer.
Wishful thinking says it comes from EDI.  Logic dictates the blueprints most likely came from the derelict reapers sense it was mostly intact and heavily studied.

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
To quote the Codex:

"Lacking any clear ammunition or fuel source, the device likely uses heat sinks or compensators to maintain firing during sustained combat. Current Cerberus efforts to understand the technology and replicate it have failed."

With the base, Cerberus will probably be able to understand and replicate the tech in no time. Hell, even if they would fail at that, they'd still have hundreds if not thousands of those weapons just lying around the base, ready to use.

That's also another reason to blow the thing up, if you don't want to give paramilitary extremists better weapons they can use against you. 

[alperez]

HomelessGal wrote...

I do wonder what kind of ships Cerberus has; they don't really look like much in Invasion.

The millennium falcon didn't look like much either to be fair.

Although they look puny in those pics, technolgicaly we have no idea how strong they are.

Plus it kind of dispels not having a fleet considering there is more than one ship in that pic.

[Kaiser Shepard]

HomelessGal wrote...

I do wonder what kind of ships Cerberus has; they don't really look like much in Invasion.

Here you can see what I assume will turn out to be standard Cerberus fighters.

[alperez]

jbblue05 wrote...

You also get pics of a Reaper frm Kasumi's greybox and let me tell you EDI had nothing to do with it.
The tweet from Mac doesn't confirm the blueprints came from the CB he was very vague in his answer.
Wishful thinking says it comes from EDI.  Logic dictates the blueprints most likely came from the derelict reapers sense it was mostly intact and heavily studied.

So logically your arguing that the pic shown to you at the end of the game just after you've complete the SM is in fact not blueprints received from info received during the SM but is in fact a picture of blueprints received much earlier, and this makes sense to you.

So edi's obviously been on a break since the derelict reaper mission, had this info but kept it to herself until just after the SM because that's how she rolls.

[TMA LIVE]

jbblue05 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

http://twitter.com/#...530567091097600

TMA: At the end of ME2, Joker gives Shepard a datapad showing a Reaper. Does that mean we gained some kind of data on Reapers?

Mac: It is safe to assume that the Collector base yielded a great deal of
information on the Reapers (even if destroyed). So... Yes .

Walters doesn't confirm EDI datamined the Base.

Its obvious no matter if you kept or destroyed the CB you' learn a lt abut the Reapers sme more than other

You got those pictures and info from somewhere. And it ain't Sov. And as Mac says, it's info that came from the base. The base had information, and we got it. Logic says EDI. After all, did you see Shepard download anything during the Suicide Mission?

You also get pics of a Reaper frm Kasumi's greybox and let me tell you EDI had nothing to do with it.
The tweet from Mac doesn't confirm the blueprints came from the CB he was very vague in his answer.
Wishful thinking says it comes from EDI.  Logic dictates the blueprints most likely came from the derelict reapers sense it was mostly intact and heavily studied.

Yeah, instead that picture came from her boyfriend, who put that imagine in his memories. And that's DLC, with those memories staying in the box. Everything comes from somewhere. Mac says "base had information, even if destroyed". And he said yes to my question about the datapad. Notice how I didn't even ask where the data came from, and he said "base had info, so yes."

Logic says EDI. After all, how else could Shepard get info from the base if he didn't download it himself?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 06 août 2011 - 05:48 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

That's also another reason to blow the thing up, if you don't want to give paramilitary extremists better weapons they can use against you.

Fair enough, but the point still stands. I'd agree with you, but only because Shepard isn't able to play his cards as well as a certain Agent Thorton. If it turns out you can indeed pull a Starscream in the third game, I'd consider metagaming this one...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

outdo does nto equal destroy.

And to dominate, you first need to survive. Priorities man..Priorities.

Cerberus can survive if they want to.

They have no need of the other races.

Against the reapers? They do.

Not to mention that you have yet to prove any proof that Cerberus  ot TIM want to destroy the other races.
And no, using the word "dominance", or having a smug smile is not proof.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Against the reapers? They do.

Not to mention that you have yet to prove any proof that Cerberus  ot TIM want to destroy the other races.
And no, using the word "dominance", or having a smug smile is not proof.

And you have no proof that they don't.

[TMA LIVE]

I don't think TIM is interested in destroy other races. That kind of defeats the purpose of saying dominance. He's more of want to control them, and to be superior. He wants power and influence over them. Indoctrination technology is the best way to do it. Having better technology and weaponry is the other best way to do it. Which seems to match what he wants.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TMA LIVE wrote...

That seems to be it. Do you want to give power to a pro-human terrorist organization, and trust them to be responsible with it?

Yes. I don't care if they're responsible with it. If they arne't, I'll take away whatever research data tehy dig up. Far easier to take tech and data from Cerberus than sentient chhulu-like super spaceships. I'm gonna need that data anyway.

And to always be on your side?

They only have to be on my side agaisnt the reapers.

And willing to give them power to dominate the other races by giving them an advantage?

Short-lived advantage of limited use.

And at the cost of probably more immoral sacrifices?

Is the sacrifice immorial if it saves the galaxy? Can I afford not to make it?

Or do you not want to do any of this, and believe you'll find another way?

Since no other way was even hinted at.... I'd go with what I know exists.

Do you already see them as a threat, or a future threat, that also needs to be taken out? Like the Collectors, the Shadow Broker, or the Heretic Geth?

Normnanlly, it would depend on the scale of the threat, usefulness and probability.
However, given our adversary, taking any risk is at this point is perfectly justified.

[Someone With Mass]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I don't think TIM is interested in destroy other races. That kind of defeats the purpose of saying dominance. He's more of want to control them, and to be superior. He wants power and influence over them. Indoctrination technology is the best way to do it. Having better technology and weaponry is the other best way to do it. Which seems to match what he wants.

Trying to control them without vastly decreasing their strength in some way seems a little bit unrealistic, though.

Then again, he's always trying to construct super soldiers.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sisterofshane wrote...

No, I got the question.  The other council races didn't get rid of other species because they saw them as inherently useful.
I countered that point as in reference to humans not needing other species to fill in our weak points.
And even if I overgeneralized, it was to illustrate the point that the other species RELY upon each other to complete their goals,  and that this would not be the case if humanity were to suddenly assume a majority of the power in the galaxy.
So, I ask you again, why would it be necessary to keep the other races around?  What exactly stops us from killing them if they get in the way of what we want?

No, sorry, I don't really see that reliance. Asari are just as capable warriors as turains are. There are no crippling overspecilizations in these species as far as I can see.

Each of the races would be very much capable of governing the universe alone - why not? They governed their own race and reached the stars alone.

[Lotion Soronarr]

alperez wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


but..why would he do that? That makes no sense.

Before Normandy entered the Omega relay no one knew what you'd find on the other side. TIM didn't know about hte base or what it contained, nor what the opposition would be nor the circumstances.
How could he have told you anything before that?

Unless you missed that, he proposes the pulse option AFTER studying the data EDI sent him and determining it would work at all.

Considering he's supposedly a genius and he's already shown that he will keep certain info to himself if he feels that its better than divulging that info, why does it make no sense.

Your assumption that he doesn't know that the base exists or may contain valuable tech data actually makes less sense, which considering your own arguments for keeping the base is surprising.

Would it not be more ogical that TIM would expect the collectors to have some sort of a base of operations on the other side of the omega relay and that this homebase of the collectors, people he knows are working with the reapers may contain perhaps some information about the reapers themselves, not to mention some tech that could be useful, considering you yourself have argued that the base does contain those very things.

TIM is apparently a clever man, so would a clever man not have come to that conclussion way before sending Shepard in the first place?

Also considering TIM's been shown to keep info to himself when it suits him, what's to say he deliberately kept the pulse info to the last moment.

NO ONE has been trough the Omega 4 relay. How can TIM know exactly what's on the other side? He can't. He can only suspect.
You're not making any sense here.

You can't really make any solid plans wiht no intel. That's why he waited.

Wihout knowing how the staitons power core works, how could he have even known a pulse would work?