3618 réponses à ce sujet

[jbblue05]

alperez wrote...





So logically your arguing that the pic shown to you at the end of the game just after you've complete the SM is in fact not blueprints received from info received during the SM but is in fact a picture of blueprints received much earlier, and this makes sense to you.

So edi's obviously been on a break since the derelict reaper mission, had this info but kept it to herself until just after the SM because that's how she rolls.

 you should re-read my post.
After the derelict reaper mission EDI was trying to integrate the IFF with Normandy's systems if you were paying attention to the story

Modifié par jbblue05, 06 août 2011 - 06:16 .

[jbblue05]

TMA LIVE wrote...



Yeah, instead that picture came from her boyfriend, who put that imagine in his memories. And that's DLC, with those memories staying in the box. Everything comes from somewhere. Mac says "base had information, even if destroyed". And he said yes to my question about the datapad. Notice how I didn't even ask where the data came from, and he said "base had info, so yes."

Logic says EDI. After all, how else could Shepard get info from the base if he didn't download it himself?

VAGUE Walters is VAGUE:huh:
Walters didn't say yes to the datapad he said no matter if destoryed or kept Shepard still gets information which is obvious.

I still say wishful thinking.  If EDI datamined the hell out of the base Shepard should've been able to question her.

"EDI got any useful intel from the CB?"
"I'm still sifting through the data Shepard"

If this happen in the game it would reinforce your viewpoint on EDI and the CB, since it doesn't your view is wishful thinking not LOGIC

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

A) They can be trusted to save their own skins,

Well, sure, I didn't really expect an explanation as to why you even believe that, since it's an obvious counter-argument for the sake of being a counter-argument and defending your position, but...really?

No, they are not.
Even if we agree that TIM will be trustworthy enough in a situation like this, which is simply not true as seen at least twice in Mass Effect 2 (Setting up two traps, that of the Collector Vessel and the other with the VS, along with some other lies, such as Liara, various attempts at manipulation, etc.), they are definitely not to be trusted with saving their own skins.

Almost causing a technolodgical apocalypse, becoming indoctrinated while knowing about indoctrination, being unable to contain Subject Zero, Ascension, Retribution, and Trident are only few examples of that.

I know you're trying to say something here, but you're making no sense.
How exactly does anything there prove the Cerberus doesn't want to save huamnity and itself from being exterminated?

The Reapers will wipe out all existing sapient species, and actually have the means to succeed. Anything that Cerberus may do after the Reapers is not as bad as what the Reapers WILL do if they are not stopped,

Pragmatically or morally?

Because you know, whatever Cerberus does has the potential to be multiple times more morally worse than what the Reapers do.

no.

And that's besides the point, what is your argument? That the base will save us? That Cerberus will give us the base? That Cerberus will not use the base selectively?

Because you know, that's assuming that the base will alone save us from the Reapers. A ridiculous claim, as I have explained multiple times. 

The base itself can of course not save us. That base did NOT create a single Reaper. And we want to use it to compete with multiple thousands...

The base has the potential to save us.
Your redicolous claims that it is abosuletly worthless are...absolutely worthless.

And then there is the "but combined with other tech it can do stuff, imagine the endless possibilities!" card. The one that when it reads itself with some attention, it will want to jump out the nearest airlock.

If you claim that you will combine the Reaper Tech with conventional tech, then the possibilities are definitely not infinite. They are very "finite" actually.

Conventional technolodgy is limited, and it is definitely not unknown. The fact that you can't think of any of conventional tech that could give us the edge (although someone did suggest upgrading our MA canons to the point they are multiple times the strength of that that the Reapers have...somehow), is testimony as to how the CB can be of no use to us in defeating the Reapers.

It is only of potential use to Cerberus. And not in defeating the Reapers.

Again a lot of BS with no value.
Yes, the possibiliteis are infinite (or nearly infinite..it's only an expression ayynway, and I'd hoped you'd not be so anal to go after it...but I was wrong apperanlty)

Your knowledge of technology and physics is abysmal if you can make claims like that.

You can try to ignore it, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't ensure that saving the Collector Base is after all, a bad choice to make.

that remains to be seen.

And...what are you saying exactly anyway?
Assuming that Cerberus will turn against you, is less valid than assuming that they will somehow distribute the CB tech (which you assume that will be helpful) to all species?

Yes..it is.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Against the reapers? They do.

Not to mention that you have yet to prove any proof that Cerberus  ot TIM want to destroy the other races.
And no, using the word "dominance", or having a smug smile is not proof.

And you have no proof that they don't.

Given that not a single member of cerberus you can talk to in the game ever sez anything agaisnt hte aliens or even hints tehy want them gone..
Given that TIM himself encourages Shep to forge alliances...

I'd say that the burden on proof is on you, as I have a far better case than you,...Doc.

[alperez]

jbblue05 wrote...



 you should re-read my post.
After the derelict reaper mission EDI was trying to integrate the IFF with Normandy's systems if you were paying attention to the story

So let me get this straight then, your argument is that in integrating the IFF drive, the blueprints you receive at the end of the game were actually discovered?

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

NO ONE has been trough the Omega 4 relay. How can TIM know exactly what's on the other side? He can't. He can only suspect.
You're not making any sense here.

You can't really make any solid plans wiht no intel. That's why he waited.

Wihout knowing how the staitons power core works, how could he have even known a pulse would work?

Then again, it's not that far of a stretch to assume that there's a base on the other side once they got the coordinates that lead to the galactic core.

No planet can survive a harsh climate like that, and having just a fleet of ships would be a little unpractical.

[alperez]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


NO ONE has been trough the Omega 4 relay. How can TIM know exactly what's on the other side? He can't. He can only suspect.
You're not making any sense here.

You can't really make any solid plans wiht no intel. That's why he waited.

Wihout knowing how the staitons power core works, how could he have even known a pulse would work?

Ok where exactly did i suggest in my post that TIM knows exactly what's on the other side of the relay>

What i did suggest was that it makes more sense that TIM would suspect that the collectors had a base of some sort on the other side of the relay and that knowing this it would be logical to assume that this base may contain info or tech and TIM apparently being smart would have factored it into his plan from the beginning.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Given that not a single member of cerberus you can talk to in the game ever sez anything agaisnt hte aliens or even hints tehy want them gone..
Given that TIM himself encourages Shep to forge alliances...

I'd say that the burden on proof is on you, as I have a far better case than you,...Doc.

Read the books. The Cerberus antagonists aren't even attemting to hide that they hate aliens with a fiery passion.

[alperez]

HomelessGal wrote...


I think the proposed idea is that EDI was too busy with the IFF to do...whatever.

Ok that makes the joke smiley make more sense.

[jbblue05]

alperez wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...



 you should re-read my post.
After the derelict reaper mission EDI was trying to integrate the IFF with Normandy's systems if you were paying attention to the story

So let me get this straight then, your argument is that in integrating the IFF drive, the blueprints you receive at the end of the game were actually discovered?

The Reaper IFF and getting to the O4 Relay was Shepard's top priority at that time TIM and/or EDI were observing the datapad at the time until it was relevant.

Throughout the game TIM withheld info from Shepard until it wass relevant.  Just like TIM tells you Cerberus is studying the derelict Reaper  only after you do the Collector Ship. Its highly likely Cerberus was studying the Derelict Reaper even before Shepard was brought back from the dead

Modifié par jbblue05, 06 août 2011 - 06:46 .

[alperez]

jbblue05 wrote...


The Reaper IFF and getting to the O4 Relay was Shepard's top priority that time TIM and/or EDI were observing the datapad at the time until it was relevant.

Throughout the game TIM withheld info from Shepard until it wass relevant.  Just like TIM tells you Cerberus is studying the derelict Reaper  only after you do the Collector Ship. Its highly likely Cerberus was studying the Derelict Reaper even before Shepard was brought back from the dead

I agree with your last paragraph completely, the first one though not so much.

I think its more likely that the reason your given the datapad at the end of the game is because you've discovered that information on the base you've just left rather than it was discovered earlier or through an earlier mission and has only just got around to being relevant imo.

Modifié par alperez, 06 août 2011 - 06:52 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I concur,second paragraph is pretty spot on,they would have had to been studying the DR for a while to find such a small IFF,that or reapers are set up like organic ships and they pulled a typical miracle at extreme cost.

How many Cerberus scientist does it take to screw in a lightbulb,100,1 to change the lightbulb and the rest to get indoctrinated and kill the scientist.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 06 août 2011 - 07:27 .

[TMA LIVE]

jbblue05 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...



Yeah, instead that picture came from her boyfriend, who put that imagine in his memories. And that's DLC, with those memories staying in the box. Everything comes from somewhere. Mac says "base had information, even if destroyed". And he said yes to my question about the datapad. Notice how I didn't even ask where the data came from, and he said "base had info, so yes."

Logic says EDI. After all, how else could Shepard get info from the base if he didn't download it himself?

VAGUE Walters is VAGUE:huh:
Walters didn't say yes to the datapad he said no matter if destoryed or kept Shepard still gets information which is obvious.

I still say wishful thinking.  If EDI datamined the hell out of the base Shepard should've been able to question her.

"EDI got any useful intel from the CB?"
"I'm still sifting through the data Shepard"

If this happen in the game it would reinforce your viewpoint on EDI and the CB, since it doesn't your view is wishful thinking not LOGIC

He answered my question. I said, "Did we get info?" And he says "Collector base has info, so yes ;)". And I didn't even ask about the Collector base.

That's not vague.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

HomelessGal wrote...

One has to wonder if there is a support group for scientists in ME; it seems a horrifically lethal occupational field no matter your affiliation. Frankly, I'd be worried about my chances of making it out alive just getting out of bed each morning.

You would think Cerberus would run out of mad scientist after a while,they must have a wicked benefits package.

[jbblue05]

TMA LIVE wrote...


He answered my question. I said, "Did we get info?" And he says "Collector base has info, so yes ;)". And I didn't even ask about the Collector base.

That's not vague.

Vague as in did EDI datamine or was it first-hand observations?

[TMA LIVE]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

NO ONE has been trough the Omega 4 relay. How can TIM know exactly what's on the other side? He can't.

Actually, there is a way. After the Collector Ship got datamined, he probably learned a good deal of what was beyond there, while Shepard went after the IFF. Not everything of course, but enough to know what possible treasures the Collectors have behind closed doors.

If not, since the beginning he's been wanting to hit them where they live since Horizon. He knows the Collector has advanced technology either way. Which means taking them out gets him whatever goods they have. It's more likely gaining technology or knowledge, whatever it maybe, was secretly his main goal if it became obtainable.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 06 août 2011 - 08:02 .

[TMA LIVE]

jbblue05 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...


He answered my question. I said, "Did we get info?" And he says "Collector base has info, so yes ;)". And I didn't even ask about the Collector base.

That's not vague.

Vague as in did EDI datamine or was it first-hand observations?

First hand observation isn't this.



Which is what I asked him about.

Which he answered as:

Mac: It is safe to assume that the Collector base yielded a great deal of information on the Reapers (even if destroyed). So... Yes .

The only thing I'm saying is that it's logical that EDI was the one that got it, since Shepard clearly didn't.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 06 août 2011 - 08:15 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I don't need data,I got Mordin.

[mad825]

jbblue05 wrote...

VAGUE Walters is VAGUE:huh:
Walters didn't say yes to the datapad he said no matter if destoryed or kept Shepard still gets information which is obvious.

I still say wishful thinking.  If EDI datamined the hell out of the base Shepard should've been able to question her.

"EDI got any useful intel from the CB?"
"I'm still sifting through the data Shepard"

If this happen in the game it would reinforce your viewpoint on EDI and the CB, since it doesn't your view is wishful thinking not LOGIC

Seeing how Bioware dealt with the major consequences in ME2, it's safe to say you are right. One way or another, the PC will get the same if not similar information if s/he chooses to destroy the base to prevent unbalancing the game.

Modifié par mad825, 06 août 2011 - 08:07 .

[TMA LIVE]

Someone With Mass wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I don't think TIM is interested in destroy other races. That kind of defeats the purpose of saying dominance. He's more of want to control them, and to be superior. He wants power and influence over them. Indoctrination technology is the best way to do it. Having better technology and weaponry is the other best way to do it. Which seems to match what he wants.

Trying to control them without vastly decreasing their strength in some way seems a little bit unrealistic, though.

Then again, he's always trying to construct super soldiers.

Like I said, I don't think he wants to destroy aliens. He just wants his vision of humanity to rule over them as the dominate race. No more would humanity have to obey the Council. Instead, they are the Council. And that already happened in one ending. But keeping that power won't last forever. Not unless you have a way to secure that dominance. Thus he needs his humanity to have a power that no one can get. A bigger and more powerful army. A large, strong fleet of super advanced ships. Indoctrination.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 06 août 2011 - 08:21 .

[SandTrout]

Phaedon wrote...

The Reapers will wipe out all existing sapient species, and actually have the means to succeed. Anything that Cerberus may do after the Reapers is not as bad as what the Reapers WILL do if they are not stopped,

Pragmatically or morally?

Because you know, whatever Cerberus does has the potential to be multiple times more morally worse than what the Reapers do.

This is the only statement in your thread I'm going to even bother responding to. Lotion covered the other bases well enough. If you cannot apply your morals to practical situations, then you have flawed morals. My morals are based on the preservation of life, and beyond that logic and reason dictate the details.

Under what moral basis are you operating?

[Someone With Mass]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Like I said, I don't think he wants to destroy aliens. He just wants his vision of humanity to rule over them as the dominate race. No more would humanity have to obey the Council. Instead, they are the Council. And that already happened in one ending. But keeping that power won't last forever. Not unless you have a way to secure that dominance. Thus he needs his humanity to have a power that no one can get. A bigger and more powerful army. A large, strong fleet of super advanced ships. Indoctrination.

And I'm not willing to entrust all that power to one man. Because dictatorships never end well.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 06 août 2011 - 08:36 .