3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Like I said, I don't think he wants to destroy aliens. He just wants his vision of humanity to rule over them as the dominate race. No more would humanity have to obey the Council. Instead, they are the Council. And that already happened in one ending. But keeping that power won't last forever. Not unless you have a way to secure that dominance. Thus he needs his humanity to have a power that no one can get. A bigger and more powerful army. A large, strong fleet of super advanced ships. Indoctrination.

And I'm not  willing to entrust all that power to one man. Because dictatorships never end well.

"All dictators beleive in freedom...for themselves" 

[jbblue05]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...


He answered my question. I said, "Did we get info?" And he says "Collector base has info, so yes ;)". And I didn't even ask about the Collector base.

That's not vague.

Vague as in did EDI datamine or was it first-hand observations?

First hand observation isn't this.



Which is what I asked him about.

Which he answered as:

Mac: It is safe to assume that the Collector base yielded a great deal of information on the Reapers (even if destroyed). So... Yes .

The only thing I'm saying is that it's logical that EDI was the one that got it, since Shepard clearly didn't.

Clearly this conversation is going in circles:?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

jbblue05 wrote...
Clearly this conversation is going in circles:?

Welcome to the Den of Delusions.This must be your first morality discussion.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 06 août 2011 - 08:43 .

[SandTrout]

Someone With Mass wrote...

And I'm not willing to entrust all that power to one man. Because dictatorships never end well.

Historically speaking, this isn't all that accurate. The latter centuries of the Roman Empire were essentially a dictatorship, as well as most pre-American nations. The Romans lasted for over a millennium after their conversion to a Dictatorship under Augustus. Note that the Byzantine Empire was the direct continuation of the Eastern section of the Roman empire. Yes, they fell eventually, but everything does given enough time. Most other great nations throughout history were dictatorships of one sort or another. Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Egyptian Pharaohs, Chinese Dynasties, Persia.

That said, I agree that dictatorship is not a desirable form of government compared to the constitutional parliamentary system that is currently in use in the SA. The Parliament limits the damage that any individual can do, and political competition allows a candidate's flaws to be aired to the public before the choice is made.

[Lotion Soronarr]

alperez wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


NO ONE has been trough the Omega 4 relay. How can TIM know exactly what's on the other side? He can't. He can only suspect.
You're not making any sense here.

You can't really make any solid plans wiht no intel. That's why he waited.

Wihout knowing how the staitons power core works, how could he have even known a pulse would work?

Ok where exactly did i suggest in my post that TIM knows exactly what's on the other side of the relay>

What i did suggest was that it makes more sense that TIM would suspect that the collectors had a base of some sort on the other side of the relay and that knowing this it would be logical to assume that this base may contain info or tech and TIM apparently being smart would have factored it into his plan from the beginning.

Yes, he could have assumed that. In fact, he did assuem they have a base of operations. Yet he knew nothing about that theoretical base.

Hence, why there was no plan to capture it. Because you cannot make such plans without data.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Given that not a single member of cerberus you can talk to in the game ever sez anything agaisnt hte aliens or even hints tehy want them gone..
Given that TIM himself encourages Shep to forge alliances...

I'd say that the burden on proof is on you, as I have a far better case than you,...Doc.

Read the books. The Cerberus antagonists aren't even attemting to hide that they hate aliens with a fiery passion.

Some of them. And the games are the prime source.
Which brings us back to the Cerberus hgoals and agendas, whihc no where state "kill all aliens". And TIM himself, which encourages working with them.

[Someone With Mass]

SandTrout wrote...
Historically speaking, this isn't all that accurate. The latter centuries of the Roman Empire were essentially a dictatorship, as well as most pre-American nations. The Romans lasted for over a millennium after their conversion to a Dictatorship under Augustus. Note that the Byzantine Empire was the direct continuation of the Eastern section of the Roman empire. Yes, they fell eventually, but everything does given enough time. Most other great nations throughout history were dictatorships of one sort or another. Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Egyptian Pharaohs, Chinese Dynasties, Persia.

That said, I agree that dictatorship is not a desirable form of government compared to the constitutional parliamentary system that is currently in use in the SA. The Parliament limits the damage that any individual can do, and political competition allows a candidate's flaws to be aired to the public before the choice is made.

It's also why we have multiple leaders. Just in case one goes bananas.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Some of them. And the games are the prime source.
Which brings us back to the Cerberus hgoals and agendas, whihc no where state "kill all aliens". And TIM himself, which encourages working with them.

Because, one cell reflects Cerberus as a whole, right?

[Lotion Soronarr]

HomelessGal wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
Read the books. The Cerberus antagonists aren't even attemting to hide that they hate aliens with a fiery passion.

Not to mention Miranda says "And we'd be lucky to have you. Too many join us out of simple xenophobia. We need more people here for the right reasons." in her third conversation.

Of course. As a human superematists group, there's bound to be xenophobes..But then again, there are xenophobes everywhere.
And how muh is "too many"... by Miranda standards? She also implies there are many who join for the right reasons.
And the Cerberus personell aboard your ships - they are all alien friendly. Would they work for Cerberus if it's goals were anihilation of all aliens? No.

So all this proves is that there are xenophobs among cerberus personell.
And that exterminatiosn of aliens is not Cerberuses goal.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Some of them. And the games are the prime source.
Which brings us back to the Cerberus hgoals and agendas, whihc no where state "kill all aliens". And TIM himself, which encourages working with them.

Because, one cell reflects Cerberus as a whole, right?

And 2 operatives from 2 novels does? I kinda think 20 people >>> 2 people as refference.

And what do you call tIM? He's the head of Cerberus, isn't he?

What about the Cerberus manifesto? Where does it say "kill all aliens"?

It's pretty much obvious the Cerberus personel on your ship don't want to kill off aliens. So why are they working for Cerberus then?



Your pathological hatered of Cerberus stopped being funny ages ago.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 06 août 2011 - 09:04 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Like I said, I don't think he wants to destroy aliens. He just wants his vision of humanity to rule over them as the dominate race. No more would humanity have to obey the Council. Instead, they are the Council. And that already happened in one ending. But keeping that power won't last forever. Not unless you have a way to secure that dominance. Thus he needs his humanity to have a power that no one can get. A bigger and more powerful army. A large, strong fleet of super advanced ships. Indoctrination.

And I'm not willing to entrust all that power to one man. Because dictatorships never end well.

He's just one man Doc. A bullet to the head and no dictatorship.
Not that TIM could ever believably take over anyway....

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It's pretty much obvious the Cerberus personel on your ship don't want to kill off aliens. So why are they working for Cerberus then?

Stated in the game by several of them. Go check it out.

And your little "logical choice" trip stopped being entertaining the moment you started. 

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
He's just one man Doc. A bullet to the head and no dictatorship.
Not that TIM could ever believably take over anyway....

Then they have nothing to fight for. Because human domination is their goal, after defeating the Reapers with their research and technology (which they tested on aliens and humans alike).

You'd be surprised what one man alone can accomplish in terms of leadership and war.

[SandTrout]

Someone With Mass wrote...

You'd be surprised what one man alone can accomplish in terms of leadership and war.

Only if people are willing to accept his authority. If TIM started trying to take over, a lot of people would be saying the equivalent of "STFU".

[Someone With Mass]

SandTrout wrote...
Only if people are willing to accept his authority. If TIM started trying to take over, a lot of people would be saying the equivalent of "STFU".

It's apparently enough for him to create an army.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
He's just one man Doc. A bullet to the head and no dictatorship.
Not that TIM could ever believably take over anyway....

Then they have nothing to fight for. Because human domination is their goal, after defeating the Reapers with their research and technology (which they tested on aliens and humans alike).

You'd be surprised what one man alone can accomplish in terms of leadership and war.

They have somewthing to fight for. Human domination and survival.
That goal will exist as long as humanity exists.

Tim or Cerberus doesn't have to take control of the goivernment to make that possible. Cerberus is already accomplishing it's goal by making humanity stronger from the shadows.

If TIM wanted to rule, he would have gone into politics.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

SandTrout wrote...
Only if people are willing to accept his authority. If TIM started trying to take over, a lot of people would be saying the equivalent of "STFU".

It's apparently enough for him to create an army.

An army that can't take over nothing....

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It's pretty much obvious the Cerberus personel on your ship don't want to kill off aliens. So why are they working for Cerberus then?

Stated in the game by several of them. Go check it out.

And your little "logical choice" trip stopped being entertaining the moment you started. 

I love it how you ignore all other points.

You lost this argument too really.... kinda becoming a trend for you, no?

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I love it how you ignore all other points.

You lost this argument too really.... kinda becoming a trend for you, no?

No, I just didn't see any good point in them that was worth replying to. 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I love it how you ignore all other points.

You lost this argument too really.... kinda becoming a trend for you, no?

You can't really debate against someone who has drawn a line in the sand and has his fingers in his ears.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I love it how you ignore all other points.

You lost this argument too really.... kinda becoming a trend for you, no?

You can't really debate against someone who has drawn a line in the sand and has his fingers in his ears.

..which is exactly why I ignore all your posts.

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I love it how you ignore all other points.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

You lost this argument too really.... kinda becoming a trend for you, no?

No, I just didn't see any good point in them that was worth replying to. 

You don't have a replay to them.

You dont' have a SINGLE piece of strong evidence to support your claim.

So yes. That's the definition of loosing an argument - when you don't have any facts or proof to defend it.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

They have somewthing to fight for. Human domination and survival.
That goal will exist as long as humanity exists.

Tim or Cerberus doesn't have to take control of the goivernment to make that possible. Cerberus is already accomplishing it's goal by making humanity stronger from the shadows.

If TIM wanted to rule, he would have gone into politics.

Which he has.

And he's building an army. That's why he's trying to create super soldiers.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You don't have a replay to them.

You dont' have a SINGLE piece of strong evidence to support your claim.

So yes. That's the definition of loosing an argument - when you don't have any facts or proof to defend it.

By that definition, you lost before you started.

And if you want me to respond to you in a serious and well thought-out manner, learn how to spell.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 06 août 2011 - 09:36 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You don't have a replay to them.

You dont' have a SINGLE piece of strong evidence to support your claim.

So yes. That's the definition of loosing an argument - when you don't have any facts or proof to defend it.

By that definition, you lost before you started.

Hence the line in the sand...

[Arijharn]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You don't have a replay to them.

You dont' have a SINGLE piece of strong evidence to support your claim.

So yes. That's the definition of loosing an argument - when you don't have any facts or proof to defend it.

By that definition, you lost before you started.

And if you want me to respond to you in a serious and well thought-out manner, learn how to spell.

Sorry Mass, but I'm pretty sure he won the argument, and attacking his spelling out of everything he has said, is if anything, a sure sign of his victory.